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Arf prices?

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Old 07-22-2013, 05:20 PM
  #26
OliverJacob
 
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Default RE: Arf prices?

Maybe I should grow balsa trees....nah - I am in Wisconsin.
The increases have a lot to do with increased labor costs.
China is getting more expensive, the cost of living and need of workers
forces companies to pay more.

If they keep going it this pace, goods will be to expensive to ship and sell overseas in just a few years.
They might be importing our products later.

The cost of balsa has not had too much of an impact as the LHS guy wants you to believe.
It is still cheaper to buy an ARF then an incomplete kit, both made of balsa and some ply.

I grew up in Germany and had to save up for a long time to buy an rc plane, ARFs were outrageously expensive.
When I came to the US, I was surprised on how cheap everything was.

So with about 25 planes and 3 helicopters on the shelf I won't complain about the prices.
There is lots of competition between the manufacturers and it does not seem to be a controlled market.

To me it just don't make any sense that a kit costs a lot more then an already build plane.
I understand people don;t like to build anymore, but still - any plane started as a kit and shipping a small box of sticks
is a lot cheaper then an arf.



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Old 07-22-2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: WindGap

I just snatch few when they go on sale. Mfg's will put em on sale from time to time. Hangar 9 put a few models for $99/ea awhile back. Grabbed a p-40 and katana. Until money grow on trees, I'll shop wisely/cheaply. Its a hobby after all.

X2
Supporting mfg's asking stupid prices is optional. Even the most absurd put them on sale once in a while (Christmas?).
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Arf prices?

Hangar 9 and AeroWorks ARF's have always been more expensive!

I fly Futaba....for the most part.

To Horizon Hobby's credit, Hangar 9 ARF's are more detailed and scale-like.
But, if you want a deal, buy a Tower Hobbies, Great Planes, or Pheonix Model ARF.

Happy flying.


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Old 07-22-2013, 06:57 PM
  #29
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Default RE: Arf prices?

Its the ole Wholesale Retail Mafia thing all over again.
Once upon a time the manufacturers didn't direct sell so it birthed a Whole network that didn't want to hassle with clients off the street so it in turn birthed a retail network which is essentially loathe to do much so they just pass on costs and inflate the price until things stop selling and around we go.
Then came the web enabling people to sell directly at fair prices then along came people like the Chinese who did the web with aplomb. Now everyone is used to this trading they are drifting back to the bad ole ways and around we go as hobbies end up dying out.
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: Arf prices?

to me it's just basic economics 101, law of supply and demand, supply for what ever reason can't keep up, several reasons have already been given, high fuel cost, higher shipping cost, labor shortage/wages, material shortages/higher prices etc etc. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that hanger9 has dropped a lot of their ARFs lately?
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:00 AM
  #31
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Default RE: Arf prices?

Same with GP/ Tower. Some of the best ARFs like the Reactor 46, Ultimate Bipe 50cc, Yak 50cc etc are all gone. The remaining arent that great fliers.

Ameyam
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:00 AM
  #32
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Maybe this will shift some modelers to build that have not built before.
I have had a couple of ARF's, both were not built well. I will not buy another.
I have been building for 45 years now and still find it very relaxing and rewarding, to create from scratch, something that can fly.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:28 AM
  #33
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Default RE: Arf prices?

Seems like they only want to sell small electrics. Tower used to have a great selection of planes, arfs or kits.
I think I'll get bored with the all the plastic toys on the first half of their catalog.
And I don't want to pay over $100 for a hand full of plastic.
So the less real planes they sell, the more people will buy elsewhere.

Tower is a great company and has very good service, but the selection is not what it used to be
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:01 AM
  #34
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Default RE: Arf prices?

While that true in the end they can only offer what their suppliers offer them.

I hope they (Hobbico) bring back more of the kits they used (Ultrasport 1000 comes to mind) to sell and the Goldberg line (Ultimate Bipe).

But part of that is supply and demand and from the guys in my club, there are very few that are interested in building a true kit these days.

Bill S.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:48 AM
  #35
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Default RE: Arf prices?

I had talked to Horizon rep a few years ago at Toledo, asking about new warbirds and ARF's they said no axis planes (this was before the Me109 came out) due to poor sales/ low demand of axis planes- but The CMP 109 was sold out for the over a year due to high demand. Now their 109 does pretty darn well but with a whopping price-tag for a .60 size plane. Now they have released their new P-47 (which is a work of art -Actually looks like a Kyosho styled covering & build up), but at $369.00 for a .60 size ARF...I find it almost impossible to justify purchasing- Especially when ESM & the likes are that price (or even less) for a 72"WS bird of excellent quality.
Don't get me wrong H9- beats VQ & VMAR & Nitroplanes quality- But with electric retracts, their aftermarket struts, a 2.4 system, a 15cc gas engine and their ARF, would make their new H9 .60 size P-47 over $1000.00.
That's a lot of $$ for a "Hobby"...I started in this as a kid, and can afford such an addiction. However, this begs the question: How can a kid these days afford something like that ?
I'm all for building, but hardly anyone does it these days.
I fear with prices like that foamies may push out built-up planes from the market all together based on such absorptive costs alone.
This hobby should be accessible to our youth- Hardly any newcomers to our club know anything about building and Built up arf's are essentially disposab;e commodities given the lack of building knowledge. - but that's another conversation in itself.

I get the impression someone there said: "hey lets create a .50 size class that is really a .40 size class and we can bump up the price of all the other lines too- it's a win win for all Horizon models".
They brought in their .50 class birds and priced them as .60 size birds so they could charge 1.20 price for their .60 size planes.
I understand inflations, rising costs, and all that - ( I also know that ARF's in the USA are less than most other countries) However, I still think someone is getting taken advantage of here.
If anyone ever complains from Horizon that sales are not as they had hoped...maybe it's because they price their new over $100.00 too high.
I rarely rant- but these prices make me sad for the future of our "Hobby".
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:29 PM
  #36
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Default RE: Arf prices?

Personally Idon't likeARF's. I also can't stand some idiot coming up to me at the flight line asking whose ARF my custom designed, constructed and finished thoroughbreds are. I don't answer dumb questions like that on principle alone.

HOWEVER, some aerobatic ARF's, dare it be said, have come quite a way in terms of quality. Quality to memeans excellent, preciseconstruction at a lighter weight, from good materials.

Look at Extreme Flight's planes for example. These are well designed (in US) and constructed (in China) models. The owner of EF took the required time and made the effort to teach exactly what he wanted in his planes to the Chinese builders. Even if he made kits available not many kit builders can buildthe kit of any of these models as well. Why? Because when companies get serious about running an ARF campaign of, say, 250 planes, the building company will often build assembly jigs. Not only do assy jigs facilitate assembly and quicken the construction, they provide the means to buildwith great precision.....

One more intangible thing is emotional attachment. Labors of love can hurt when they eat dirt. Plunking down money for something hurts much much less when the something bites the dust. Some might even say it doesn't hurt at all but as always, YMMV
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:07 PM
  #37
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Default RE: Arf prices?

I started in this hobby decades ago when the only thing available were kits or scratch build. As time progressed the quality of the material supplied in a kit diminished and the same applied when purchasing material at your local hobby shop. I'm not posting to debate the issue just pointing out things I noticed. Arfs started on the scene little by little and eventually replaced the kit market. Why do people constantly bash ARFs and at the same time praise the 3D community. Without the ARF there would be no giant scale 3D models.
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:45 PM
  #38
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Default RE: Arf prices?

The manner in which I approach a purchase is Cost/hours needed to fly.............so I purchase an ARF for $200 and it takes me 20 hours to assemble it = $10 an hour for enjoyment............whereas if I purchase a kit for $200 and it takes me 200 hours to complete, that mean the kit cost me $1 and hour

Plus, I can't fly at night time, but I can build

Just my $.02 worth
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:18 PM
  #39
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Default RE: Arf prices?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rgburrill


Quote:
ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS

The bottom line is this: The U.S. Dollar is being devalued via inflated money supply. The Federal Reserve is injecting about $80 Billion per month into the money supply which has the effect of reducing the buying power of the U.S. Dollar. This affects the prices on everything, but especially on imported products....and most ARFs are imported. I understand this Forum is about our model airplane hobby and not about economics or politics. However our hobby/sport does not exist in a vacuum. ARF prices are rising because of realities outside of our hobby. In a few years we will look back at today's prices as the ''good old days''.

Best Regards
JC

I don't always fly R/C...but when I do, I fly FASST.
The OP and other respondents are not in the US and still have the same problem. While certainly the FED is directly hurting those of us in this hobby it only has a small effect on the rest of the world. The biggest problem, I believe, is that the cheap, unskilled laborers in China (in particular) are demanding more money. And they are probably learning from our unions about things like work slowdowns.

Work slowdowns, Heck thay are taking their bosses hostage! I kid you not, you see that story about a south Florida man who owns a medical supply company in China and his workers held him for like a week and forced him into giving them severance, etc.....

I agree the "Cheap Labor" days are comming to an end

it's costing more to fly than ever for me, but still worth it

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Old 07-23-2013, 05:20 PM
  #40
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: ssautter

Hangar 9 and AeroWorks ARF's have always been more expensive!

I fly Futaba....for the most part.

To Horizon Hobby's credit, Hangar 9 ARF's are more detailed and scale-like.
But, if you want a deal, buy a Tower Hobbies, Great Planes, or Pheonix Model ARF.

Happy flying.


Don't forget Segull Models.

great stuff, a little on the heavy side, but strong and good quality.

Made in Vietnam if I recall, good prices as well :-)
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:18 PM
  #41
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Default RE: Arf prices?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Nitro-Tom


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ssautter

Hangar 9 and AeroWorks ARF's have always been more expensive!

I fly Futaba....for the most part.

To Horizon Hobby's credit, Hangar 9 ARF's are more detailed and scale-like.
But, if you want a deal, buy a Tower Hobbies, Great Planes, or Pheonix Model ARF.

Happy flying.


Don't forget Segull Models.

great stuff, a little on the heavy side, but strong and good quality.

Made in Vietnam if I recall, good prices as well :-)
Yes, and The World Models, or Airborne Models, in North America.
I didn't mention anything available outside the Tower catalog, for a reason.

Unfortunately, Hangar 9 doesn't offer a single kit, anymore!
And, the only kits offered by HH are the new/larger Blade helis.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:03 PM
  #42
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Default RE: Arf prices?

It's just basic logic. They have made those who either can't build or won't build totally dependent on them to supply your flying fix. Now they can raise the price and you will gripe and complain, but you will pay whatever they ask.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:23 AM
  #43
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Default RE: Arf prices?

We have got to love RCU. I have searched for a name for the plywood as it is called in some ARF aircraft. Flakeboard? I like it. The only thing I could come with is the way it looked and felt like graham crackers. How about take a bath and get a job. How about the suggestion we are hooked and will pay whatever is asked. How about the saying that sounds like something Pop-Eye would say. If you want to build, build and if you want to fly buy. Is ARF just the in thing now? I wonder. In the days of kits only and scratch build. The scratch guys were always admired for many reasons. Kit builders were all judged by how the build came out. There was a time when the kits became stale. The ARF craze put life back into the flight line. Now we have RTF electrics and others things. Will building make a come back? There is so many other things that compete for our time. We all know at one time the only competition for our building time was the idiot box, also know as TV. How many things now distract us? The pleasure, pride and self satisfaction associated with building has been lost it seems. Like everything else in this sport/hobby. We are looking for our CG. Many have seen a lot of change in this hobby. The strange thing, the more it changes the more it stays the same.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:23 AM
  #44
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: flycatch

I started in this hobby decades ago when the only thing available were kits or scratch build. As time progressed the quality of the material supplied in a kit diminished and the same applied when purchasing material at your local hobby shop. I'm not posting to debate the issue just pointing out things I noticed. Arfs started on the scene little by little and eventually replaced the kit market. Why do people constantly bash ARFs and at the same time praise the 3D community. Without the ARF there would be no giant scale 3D models.
All true with the exception of your last statement. Just saying...

Bob
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:43 AM
  #45
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Default RE: Arf prices?

If the ARF market didn't happen and the kit market thrived, I see no reason giant scale 3D wouldn't be around today. Only thing worth wondering is how may pilots, after spending the time needed to build and finish a giant scale kit, would do the same 3D stuff they do now with an ARF...

We will never know but its an interesting thought...

Bill S.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:46 AM
  #46
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Does anyone know exactly where the Top Flite Arfs are made ??
China ..Indonesia ??

Thanks,
paul
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:11 AM
  #47
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Twin_Flyer

If the ARF market didn't happen and the kit market thrived, I see no reason giant scale 3D wouldn't be around today. Only thing worth wondering is how may pilots, after spending the time needed to build and finish a giant scale kit, would do the same 3D stuff they do now with an ARF...

We will never know but its an interesting thought...

Bill S.
Sure we know... There are still plenty of great kits available for flying IMAC and 3D with today. I did not learn to fly 3D with a giant scale ARF, I learned with the stuff I built long ago. I don't fly ARFs today simply because I like to build my stuff and then go out and toss it around as many I know still do.

Bob
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