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Building Ringmasters

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Old 05-24-2013, 10:15 AM
  #26
AwwNaww
 
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John, that is a very nice looking wing jig. Do you also use it as a fuselage jig with other attachments? It looks very versatile.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: AwwNaww

John, that is a very nice looking wing jig. Do you also use it as a fuselage jig with other attachments? It looks very versatile.
Thanks, It took a few days to construct but it has served me well. I have not used it for a fuselage jig mainly because I have been building profile models and didn't need it. I now have a Vector kit and when I get around to building it I believe I will set up a bunch of fuselage stations on the jig.

You can get the plans for the jig (a Bill Gruby design) over on the Brotherhood of the Ring forum. You have to register there to use the forum. If you are already registered on the Brotherhood you can just sign in and click this link (otherwise you will have to register and sign in): [link=http://www.brotherhoodofthering.info/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=114&posts=93&start=1]Wing Jig build thread[/link]

Here is another photo:



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Old 05-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #28
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Thank you! I will check that out.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:28 AM
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OK Guys, Here tis, My first Ringmaster at the young age of 62...lol
After you've seen the pics, have mercy on me.
I'm an ex Speed and racing man so this Ringmaster has to make a noise and go fast.
The OS 40H in it was originaly built for TQR type models so no muffler and it won't 4 stroke.
Not running 20% nitro and either a 8x7 prop Shown or a 9x6 APC
Thew good thing is that Steve111 will get the honour of first flight at the Old Phartz in Coffs Harbour this weekend.
The only thing he gets to pick is to fly it on .015" lines or chicken out and fly it on .018" (both 60')
This is going to be fun.....lol
FYI
We didn't have enough Red or Blue covering for both wings hence the 2 tone colour scheme.

Cheers

Fredo
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:47 AM
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Sharp looking Ringmaster, PWF63, congrats.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:21 AM
  #31
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: PWF63
...I'm an ex Speed and racing man so this Ringmaster has to make a noise and go fast.
The OS 40H in it was originaly built for TQR type models so no muffler and it won't 4 stroke...

Cheers

Fredo
You would probably like the later version of the Ringmaster Junior. Plans show it powered by a Fox .25 schnuerle.

Mine sports an Enya .09.

George
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:06 AM
  #32
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My Ring Jr powered by an OS .15FP-S Schneurle with earlier less restrictive muffler weighs in at 19 ounces.

I can't say the total accuracy of this recently purchased "fish" scale, but weighing various items seems to be on the money. Just curious, what is the optimal weight for a model of this size?
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:22 AM
  #33
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ORIGINAL: GallopingGhostler

Sharp looking Ringmaster, PWF63, congrats.

Here's A vid of my Ringmaster flying at the Coffs Harbour Old Phartz meet a couple of week ago.
I don't know that they are supposed to go this fast.....lol


Ringmaster Flight at Old Phartz - YouTube

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Old 07-12-2013, 03:41 AM
  #34
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: PWF63 Here's A vid of my Ringmaster flying at the Coffs Harbour Old Phartz meet a couple of week ago.
I don't know that they are supposed to go this fast.....lol

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad-T9m6fDAc[/youtube]
Fantastic flight there, PWF63! It flew like a combat plane, and really tight turning! You've given me inspiration for my Ring Jr with OS 15FP-S. I thought I was turning fast laps on 50' at 4 seconds.
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:52 AM
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PWF63  real fun I enjoyed watching.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: GallopingGhostler

My Ring Jr powered by an OS .15FP-S Schneurle with earlier less restrictive muffler weighs in at 19 ounces.

I can't say the total accuracy of this recently purchased ''fish'' scale, but weighing various items seems to be on the money. Just curious, what is the optimal weight for a model of this size?

Well GG, my Ringmaster Jr, powered by a PAW .080 SBR weighs 7ozs. To me,

that is optimal for the smallish 195sq" wing area. I fly it on .008" X 44' lines.

The Ringmaster Jr actually is a bit small for the PAW .080. It would fly even

better at 230-240 sq"s.

Your OS.15FP is overkill for such a small model. If you could build the full size

Ringmaster to weigh about the 18-19 ozs; your .15FP would fly it beautifully on

54'-56' lines. Or a more simple project would be a Profile Peacemaker(approx. 300sq"s)

using the .15FP for power. I have built and flown many 1950-1960's 330-395 sq" models

using .15 diesels; that includes full size Flite-Streaks, Veco and Dumas Tomahawks and

a CLC Super Clown.

Tony
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:31 AM
  #37
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: paw080 Well GG, my Ringmaster Jr, powered by a PAW .080 SBR weighs 7ozs. To me, that is optimal for the smallish 195sq'' wing area. I fly it on .008'' X 44' lines. The Ringmaster Jr actually is a bit small for the PAW .080. It would fly even better at 230-240 sq''s. Your OS.15FP is overkill for such a small model. If you could build the full size Ringmaster to weigh about the 18-19 ozs; your .15FP would fly it beautifully on 54'-56' lines. Or a more simple project would be a Profile Peacemaker(approx. 300sq''s) using the .15FP for power. I have built and flown many 1950-1960's 330-395 sq'' models using .15 diesels; that includes full size Flite-Streaks, Veco and Dumas Tomahawks and a CLC Super Clown. Tony
That is rather light, Tony. Without the engine, wouldn't that be a 5 oz. plane? I gather that the diesels provide you with the power of glow at less weight swinging the same size props.

I built mine with the kit wood. Less engine and muffler at about 6 oz, plane itself is 13 oz. Sterling used 1/8" luan plywood instead of 1/16" birch for the front plank. I used Perfect streamline wheels, which I could go to modern RC light wheels. Just curious how you got it down to 7 ounces less?

You're right on the power for a light Ringmaster. That would take a careful selection of wood and finish. I'll have a similar problem on weight with the kit wood F6F Hellcat, aircraft is of the same proportions as the Ringmaster. For that I was going to the K&B .20 Sportster AAC Schneurle.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:53 PM
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PWF63! Looked like a lot of fun. So were you wringing it out or was it wringing you out?

Ken
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: flyingagin

PWF63! Looked like a lot of fun. So were you wringing it out or was it wringing you out?

Ken
Hi Ken
Mate, I was on the needle of that flight. The last time I saw the pilot he was still massaging his shoulder.....
Model weighs 870 grams. I flew it earlier in the day. It almost exeeds my ability now.
But, you're right. A Ringmaster at this speed is a lot of fun.
My names Fredo for future reference.

Cheers


Fredo

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Old 07-13-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: GallopingGhostler

Quote:
ORIGINAL: paw080 Well GG, my Ringmaster Jr, powered by a PAW .080 SBR weighs 7ozs. To me, that is optimal for the smallish 195sq'' wing area. I fly it on .008'' X 44' lines. The Ringmaster Jr actually is a bit small for the PAW .080. It would fly even better at 230-240 sq''s. Your OS.15FP is overkill for such a small model. If you could build the full size Ringmaster to weigh about the 18-19 ozs; your .15FP would fly it beautifully on 54'-56' lines. Or a more simple project would be a Profile Peacemaker(approx. 300sq''s) using the .15FP for power. I have built and flown many 1950-1960's 330-395 sq'' models using .15 diesels; that includes full size Flite-Streaks, Veco and Dumas Tomahawks and a CLC Super Clown. Tony
That is rather light, Tony. Without the engine, wouldn't that be a 5 oz. plane? I gather that the diesels provide you with the power of glow at less weight swinging the same size props.

I built mine with the kit wood. Less engine and muffler at about 6 oz, plane itself is 13 oz. Sterling used 1/8'' luan plywood instead of 1/16'' birch for the front plank. I used Perfect streamline wheels, which I could go to modern RC light wheels. Just curious how you got it down to 7 ounces less?

You're right on the power for a light Ringmaster. That would take a careful selection of wood and finish. I'll have a similar problem on weight with the kit wood F6F Hellcat, aircraft is of the same proportions as the Ringmaster. For that I was going to the K&B .20 Sportster AAC Schneurle.

Hi George, I used the Paw .080sbr, because it gives more usable power than a TD .049....That's right I said usable power...

I fly with a 6X4 Cox prop, which is too great a load for the TD 049. I also am using a .5oz fuel tank to fly long enough

to complete a stunt pattern. My model complete, ready to fly with out the engine, does weigh less than 5ozs.

Of course I substituted all wood in the kit, using 1/16" ply doublers, and I shortened the nose to locate the CG close to

20%. It uses wing mounted wire gear with super lightweight wheels. A Ring Jr I built amost 20 years ago was

built from a kit, I only substituted the kit doublers with 1/16" plywood sheet. That model weighed 10.5ozs, and was

powered with an Allen Mercury .10cc diesel, commonly known as the AM10. It flew perfectly, flying the stunt pattern

with a soft ease on 42' X .008" lines. That model needed 3/4oz weight under the stab to bring the CG back for

optimal stunt flying. That is why on subsequent Ring Jrs, I shortened the nose moment, to eliminate the need for tail ballast

and shed more ozs to decrease the model's wing loading. The PAW .080 SBR weighs about 2.25 ozs and the AM 10 is about

3.2 ozs.

As a side note, When stationed at Kirtland AFB, I built a Jr powered with a Webra Mach-1. It was heavy and just flew big open

lazy eights and overhead stuff. My very first Ringmaster Jr was built in the early 1950's, it flew quite well with a Cub .099 on

35' lines. I'll be glad to answer more questions about my 1/2A Jrs and If I can remember how to post a pic, I shall.

Tony
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:40 PM
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You certainly said a mouthful there, Tony. I prefer to fly on longer lines (52', 58') and with a little more power, although my current power the OS .15FP-S is a little bit of an overkill. Did you make your profile fuselages as framed built-ups?

Regarding lightening things up, I've been looking at the possibility of using round hardwood dowels as the leading edges, smaller round dowels as the trailing edges, a built-up profile fuselage, lighter wheels, increasing number of ribs but going to lighter ones, etc. There are no reasons why free flight building techniques cannot be used. The larger balsa wood pieces Sterling used were easier to kit, but it did make for a heavier aircraft. And you are right about the longer nose of it. The unmuffled .15 Foxes, OSes, K&Bs, etc. were considerably lighter than the modern day engines. I could shorten the nose at least an inch.

The RingJr will loop, but at this point they are rather large, but it has been a good trainer for me.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: GallopingGhostler

You certainly said a mouthful there, Tony. I prefer to fly on longer lines (52', 58') and with a little more power, although my current power the OS .15FP-S is a little bit of an overkill. Did you make your profile fuselages as framed built-ups?

Regarding lightening things up, I've been looking at the possibility of using round hardwood dowels as the leading edges, smaller round dowels as the trailing edges, a built-up profile fuselage, lighter wheels, increasing number of ribs but going to lighter ones, etc. There are no reasons why free flight building techniques cannot be used. The larger balsa wood pieces Sterling used were easier to kit, but it did make for a heavier aircraft. And you are right about the longer nose of it. The unmuffled .15 Foxes, OSes, K&Bs, etc. were considerably lighter than the modern day engines. I could shorten the nose at least an inch.

The RingJr will loop, but at this point they are rather large, but it has been a good trainer for me.
Hello again George, No, I see no need to build profile fuselages using built up structures ..If your wood

selection is appropriate. That means very hard, yet light quarter grained sheet. For the Ring Jr, I used

very light 3/32" "C" grained sheet(about 6lb/sq') for the stab, elevator and vertical fin. For the LE and TE,

I used straight as I could find quarter grained stock(5/8ths sq and 3/4" by 3/16 I think). The ribs are 6lb

"C" or quarter grn. If I ever can post a few pics of my latest Jr, you'll see that I narrowed the side profile.

Also remember, these mods are specific for a .080cc(.049) Diesel.

I again remind you that I think you should choose another model; 300-390 sq"s of wing area for your OS .15FP.

Free Flight construction experience will guide you in building lighter, yet reliable models. Be wary of building

too light and creating a fragile model. All of my prior FF experience has colored my construction efforts.

I built and competed in indoor and outdoor HLG, indoor and outdoor rubber, and FF gas 1/2A, A, B, C and FAI gas.

I also built and flew A1 and A2 Nordic gliders. So I know how to build light. But, I've made some mistakes; such as

fabricating 1/2A and Fast Combat ships that were extremely light but too fragile for Combat.

Tony
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:24 PM
  #43
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Hi George, I hope this works;

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Old 07-15-2013, 02:47 PM
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ORIGINAL: paw080


Hi George, I hope this works;

paw080
sharp looking real sharp looking

Ken

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Old 07-15-2013, 02:47 PM
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Sharp looking Ring Jr, paw080. Yes, I can see you went with a really light finish on the wing and elevator. The wider landing gear ought to give better ground handling during take offs and landings.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:13 AM
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ORIGINAL: paw080


Hi George, I hope this works;

Don't you just love that engine paw080. I have one and an going to put it in the Pat Johnson Ringmaster 207.
A fully flapped 1/2A Model for 049-061 engines. Should be a great little 1/2a stunter.

Fredo

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Old 07-16-2013, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: PWF63


Quote:
ORIGINAL: paw080


Hi George, I hope this works;

Don't you just love that engine paw080. I have one and an going to put it in the Pat Johnson Ringmaster 207.
A fully flapped 1/2A Model for 049-061 engines. Should be a great little 1/2a stunter.

Fredo

Hi Fredo, If you build the model so that it weighs around 7 ozs, you don't need flaps.

I'm assuming the Ringmaster 207 means it's got 207 sq"s wing area. Locally we have

found that the Paw tbr and sbr .080 can easily pull 250 sq"s of wing area. I'm totally

impressed with the Paw 080's performance. Also, we found the Paw .55 cc is also

an outrageous powerhouse; my friend Barry Baxter(controlline plans) built a

PDQ Lion Tamer reduced to 160sq"s. That little Paw .55cc spun the model like a

1/2A combat ship, on 35' lines! Good luck with your Ring 207;

Tony
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:28 AM
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To CL engine specialists: I put a .15-III TV on the end of my Ringmaster Junior CL plane, in place of the OS Max .15FP-S I had. Fuel economy was poorer than the OS. Running it on 2 ounces was about the same length of flight as with 1 ounce on the OS. They both had Masters 8x4 props on them. Should I try say, an 8x6 or 9x4 prop on the Enya to get better fuel economy?
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:29 AM
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You can't get everything in just one package. There was no .15 from any US brand in 1952, when the Ringmster Jr was new, just the OKCub 0.14, with about the same power as a Black Widow .049. The original kit was best suited to an .09 of some sort, with its 190 square inch wing, but balanced just fine with the first few loop-scavenged .15s, when those appeared (K&BGH, Fox 15X, OSMax I .15, etc.

Those were light in weight, but more power than needed. An 8-4 was the usual prop to use with them. The Enya you are using came later, although if I'm recalling correctly, wasn't much bigger or heavier than the older .15s. Modern Schneurle ported 15s can generate power equal to the best of the 19s and 20s from the old days of loop scavenged porting, however, they are heavier by far, so not usually a good match for doing aerobatics with on any planes as comparatively small as this design.

The Schneurle ported engines are more economical, as you've discovered. Even a modern 0.10 is a lot of power for a small plane the Ring Jr's size (of course, when it was a new kit, I built several with 19s on them, with the noses cut short, and the tanks inside the wing . . )


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Old 07-31-2013, 07:41 AM
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Hi J-K, thanks for your inputs. The Enya is actually heavier than the OS FP, listed at 4+ oz. They used a rather thick cylinder sleeve with bypass ports cut in it. A modern .09 to .10 Schneurle would be definitely enough power for it. With inputs from others, I am gathering that the Enya is not as efficient as the OS FP. Reading reviews of it get the impression that one can go larger, wider or steeper pitch on the props and it will turn them. Out of curiosity I plan to test with a 9x4 prop, and picked up two 8x6 props to see if they will make a difference.

I am by no means a skilled stunt flier. Last time I flew was briefly in the 1990's, before that the 1970's, mostly half-A although I built and flew a Sterling S-2 Profile P-51 by Matt Kania with McCoy .19 Red Head briefly during the mid 1970's.

Here's a flight using the OS 15FP:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a3TY1uriCE[/youtube]

Flight using the Enya .15-III TV:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZRAjg1h5kg[/youtube]
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