norvel 074 conversion issue
07-09-2013, 06:06 PM
#1
Thread Starter
norvel 074 conversion issue
OK guys my 074 Norvel fitted with a conversion head compression on original low got a new piston and liner, still not great, hand start no way, will run with a starter 'Do not know
if this is a revlite liner or not was thinking of blocking off some fins to get the temp up to " glow temperature" if it is on a few runs also lost the muffler if any one has a spare
from a junker let me know regards martin
if this is a revlite liner or not was thinking of blocking off some fins to get the temp up to " glow temperature" if it is on a few runs also lost the muffler if any one has a spare
from a junker let me know regards martin
07-10-2013, 04:50 AM
#3
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: AMB
...Do not know if this is a revlite liner or not...
martin
...Do not know if this is a revlite liner or not...
martin
If I remember correctly the .074 was released after NORVEL switched to Revlite. AFAIK there are no pre-revlite .074's. As far as blocking some fins, diesel runners have done this for many years for winter operation. I think most use aluminum foil.
Good luck with it.
George
07-10-2013, 07:01 AM
#4
Senior Member
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Martin, Is all this stuff worth messing with?
Any properly made diesel runs, no problem, without all this hassle and debate. You'd get a better result with any PAW.
If you want a diesel... there are plenty around. I feel that you're just creating problems for yourself.
OK, you tried messing around with an engine and it doesn't appear to have worked...
You have the choice of continuing to beat your head against the wall, or put the engine back the way it was... or junk it...
Sorry to sound a bit negative, but I run all my diesels except fixed compression, all through the European winter, sometimes in snow, and I never have this kind of hassle...
If your engine doesn't want to run in normal ambient temperatues it's not really of any practical use.
Here's a Speed Demon roaring away, in the snow, with one or two flick starting.
Any properly made diesel runs, no problem, without all this hassle and debate. You'd get a better result with any PAW.
If you want a diesel... there are plenty around. I feel that you're just creating problems for yourself.
OK, you tried messing around with an engine and it doesn't appear to have worked...
You have the choice of continuing to beat your head against the wall, or put the engine back the way it was... or junk it...
Sorry to sound a bit negative, but I run all my diesels except fixed compression, all through the European winter, sometimes in snow, and I never have this kind of hassle...
If your engine doesn't want to run in normal ambient temperatues it's not really of any practical use.
Here's a Speed Demon roaring away, in the snow, with one or two flick starting.
07-10-2013, 07:19 AM
#5
Thread Starter
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Broken English You must have reading my mind I have lots of smaller ones 049 Cox conversions OS and TT 10S davis heads PAWs MP jets 061s, MVVS 15Ds, Shamas an AP 09,even and ASP 12
conversion and no issues good selection of the smaller ones not worth the hassle messing with it martin
conversion and no issues good selection of the smaller ones not worth the hassle messing with it martin
07-10-2013, 07:39 AM
#6
Senior Member
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Here's another one.
Remember a while ago, we had a guy asking whether diesels really start first flick... Of course they do... Or should!
That question prompted me to pull this video out of the memory of my wife's telephone.
If an engine won't start reliably in a few seconds, try another engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jooo_YHYkzQ
Remember a while ago, we had a guy asking whether diesels really start first flick... Of course they do... Or should!
That question prompted me to pull this video out of the memory of my wife's telephone.
If an engine won't start reliably in a few seconds, try another engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jooo_YHYkzQ
07-10-2013, 08:12 AM
#7
Thread Starter
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
WELL I can flip and start varies 1-5 still damn good no long hassels fuel-flip-start, you must have the prime down right I may overdo it regards martin
on the 049-051 davis conversions next up 061D MP Jet, after getting one, bought 2 more while still available, my CS and Norvel saga not good
on the 049-051 davis conversions next up 061D MP Jet, after getting one, bought 2 more while still available, my CS and Norvel saga not good
07-10-2013, 03:44 PM
#9
Senior Member
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
FWIW, I haven't run my converted .074 since I got it from Greg aside from burping it a few times on the prime but I don't recall it being a hard starter at all. No more than any other engine I have...
Norvel .074's are famous for bending rods due to the cylinder pinch, check to see that this hasn't happened to you. This would lower the compression and explain the hard starting and low RPM you are seeing.
Norvel .074's are famous for bending rods due to the cylinder pinch, check to see that this hasn't happened to you. This would lower the compression and explain the hard starting and low RPM you are seeing.
07-10-2013, 04:02 PM
#10
Thread Starter
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Dave With head off we are getting a full stroke, checked rod its ok and have to be careful not to strike piston with contra on AJs head piston at top of cylinder just bad compression
a real piston to cylinder seal leaker no top pinch at all martin
a real piston to cylinder seal leaker no top pinch at all martin
07-10-2013, 11:35 PM
#11
My Feedback: (1)
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: AMB
Dave With head off we are getting a full stroke, checked rod its ok and have to be careful not to strike piston with contra on AJs head piston at top of cylinder just bad compression
a real piston to cylinder seal leaker no top pinch at all martin
Dave With head off we are getting a full stroke, checked rod its ok and have to be careful not to strike piston with contra on AJs head piston at top of cylinder just bad compression
a real piston to cylinder seal leaker no top pinch at all martin
Martin.
is this one of the Norvels with a screw in retaining ring that locates the head button?
If so does it have a Copper gasket?
Ray
07-11-2013, 06:39 AM
#13
My Feedback: (1)
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: AMB
RAY screw in head ala cox style one copper head gasket passed water glass test upside down in glass no leaks martin
RAY screw in head ala cox style one copper head gasket passed water glass test upside down in glass no leaks martin
Is the cylinder base gasket of normal thickness? If it had two gaskets it could explain the lack of pinch in a new p/l.
Cab you send the engine to the diesel head maker for a checkup?
Very mysterious!
Ray
07-11-2013, 05:06 PM
#14
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Beaverton,
OR
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Hi Folks,
I'm certainly no engine expert, but I mentioned this before.
I have a Norvel Big Mig Revlite .061 that has exactly the same loss of compression, and I think it's because I attempted to do the run-in with the NV diesel head installed. It should have been run-in on glow fuel first, with a smaller prop to allow it to rev up quickly, as the instructions suggest.
Norvels are known for their tight piston fits, and some of mine have special instructions on how to free them up before the first runs, by turning them over many times with the head removed, and lots of lube on the piston. I always considered that as foolishness, because it's almost impossible to get them up to running temp by flipping the prop, or even using a drill press to spin the engine over.
My theory is that performing the run-in as a diesel, does not allow them to reach normal operating temperatures, and particularly with the Revlite cylinders! The larger fins give lots of extra cooling, but running as a diesel at even lower than normal temperatures, never allows the piston/cylinder fit required for proper run-in. The results may be very rapid wear of the piston, and/or cylinder walls, not to mention possible big end wear!
Martin, if you bought that replacement cylinder/piston set from NV, it's possible they will send you a new set. Sure worth asking.
Bill
I'm certainly no engine expert, but I mentioned this before.
I have a Norvel Big Mig Revlite .061 that has exactly the same loss of compression, and I think it's because I attempted to do the run-in with the NV diesel head installed. It should have been run-in on glow fuel first, with a smaller prop to allow it to rev up quickly, as the instructions suggest.
Norvels are known for their tight piston fits, and some of mine have special instructions on how to free them up before the first runs, by turning them over many times with the head removed, and lots of lube on the piston. I always considered that as foolishness, because it's almost impossible to get them up to running temp by flipping the prop, or even using a drill press to spin the engine over.
My theory is that performing the run-in as a diesel, does not allow them to reach normal operating temperatures, and particularly with the Revlite cylinders! The larger fins give lots of extra cooling, but running as a diesel at even lower than normal temperatures, never allows the piston/cylinder fit required for proper run-in. The results may be very rapid wear of the piston, and/or cylinder walls, not to mention possible big end wear!
Martin, if you bought that replacement cylinder/piston set from NV, it's possible they will send you a new set. Sure worth asking.
Bill
07-11-2013, 06:06 PM
#15
Thread Starter
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Bill THX for the info the new one , piston/liner had NO pinch at top , cold just turning by hand with the head on and back plate off and turning lots of blowby and lubed with fuel
just a loose fit martin
just a loose fit martin
07-12-2013, 02:41 AM
#16
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Boambee East New South Wales, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: AMB
Bill THX for the info the new one , piston/liner had NO pinch at top , cold just turning by hand with the head on and back plate off and turning lots of blowby and lubed with fuel
just a loose fit martin
Bill THX for the info the new one , piston/liner had NO pinch at top , cold just turning by hand with the head on and back plate off and turning lots of blowby and lubed with fuel
just a loose fit martin
I agree with Bill on his post though.
It's my belief that All glow engines that are to be converted to diesel should be run in as glows first.
The P/L seats in better and you should then have no trouble with running engines/s as diesels.
Fredo
07-12-2013, 08:12 AM
#17
Senior Member
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: Bill Adair
Hi Folks,
I'm certainly no engine expert, but I mentioned this before.
I have a Norvel Big Mig Revlite .061 that has exactly the same loss of compression, and I think it's because I attempted to do the run-in with the NV diesel head installed. It should have been run-in on glow fuel first, with a smaller prop to allow it to rev up quickly, as the instructions suggest.
Norvels are known for their tight piston fits, and some of mine have special instructions on how to free them up before the first runs, by turning them over many times with the head removed, and lots of lube on the piston. I always considered that as foolishness, because it's almost impossible to get them up to running temp by flipping the prop, or even using a drill press to spin the engine over.
My theory is that performing the run-in as a diesel, does not allow them to reach normal operating temperatures, and particularly with the Revlite cylinders! The larger fins give lots of extra cooling, but running as a diesel at even lower than normal temperatures, never allows the piston/cylinder fit required for proper run-in. The results may be very rapid wear of the piston, and/or cylinder walls, not to mention possible big end wear!
Martin, if you bought that replacement cylinder/piston set from NV, it's possible they will send you a new set. Sure worth asking.
Bill
Hi Folks,
I'm certainly no engine expert, but I mentioned this before.
I have a Norvel Big Mig Revlite .061 that has exactly the same loss of compression, and I think it's because I attempted to do the run-in with the NV diesel head installed. It should have been run-in on glow fuel first, with a smaller prop to allow it to rev up quickly, as the instructions suggest.
Norvels are known for their tight piston fits, and some of mine have special instructions on how to free them up before the first runs, by turning them over many times with the head removed, and lots of lube on the piston. I always considered that as foolishness, because it's almost impossible to get them up to running temp by flipping the prop, or even using a drill press to spin the engine over.
My theory is that performing the run-in as a diesel, does not allow them to reach normal operating temperatures, and particularly with the Revlite cylinders! The larger fins give lots of extra cooling, but running as a diesel at even lower than normal temperatures, never allows the piston/cylinder fit required for proper run-in. The results may be very rapid wear of the piston, and/or cylinder walls, not to mention possible big end wear!
Martin, if you bought that replacement cylinder/piston set from NV, it's possible they will send you a new set. Sure worth asking.
Bill
I suspect that the engine in question just had a sloppy fit to start with. They might have put a helicopter piston/cyl on the motor toward the end of their business run, those were not tight like the airplane motors were.
07-12-2013, 03:49 PM
#18
My Feedback: (1)
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: DeviousDave
I suspect that the engine in question just had a sloppy fit to start with. They might have put a helicopter piston/cyl on the motor toward the end of their business run, those were not tight like the airplane motors were.
I suspect that the engine in question just had a sloppy fit to start with. They might have put a helicopter piston/cyl on the motor toward the end of their business run, those were not tight like the airplane motors were.
The earlier Norvel p/l's had really tight fits that after running in made them excellent hot hand starters.
The downside was that this also meant that the running in process was long and painful.
The monumental pinch has gone from the newer versions.
Clearly Norvel responded to consumer complaints and loosened up on fits because they just don't hand start hot anymore.
I'm convinced that NV is mostly selling off old stock and concentrating on making high volume products like the new gas powered 40.
Martin's new p/l was probably from the "bottom of the barrel" as they run down stocks.
Martin why don't you pop off an email off to NV complaining bitterly about the quality of the item?
It would be interesting to see their reaction.
Ray
07-12-2013, 06:25 PM
#19
Thread Starter
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Gazimoto good idea the piston/liner I got from them a waste of money. Did get an email from them months ago saying they were going to send me an 074 as a diesel for my evaluation that never happened, never produced my guess they are full tilt on the gas 40 martin
07-14-2013, 06:41 PM
#20
Senior Member
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
Go easy on Norvel guys, they are not even close to the same company they were. Most of the talent had to move on to jobs that pay the bills, no idea what relation the current guys are to who ran it before and it they are businessmen or engine designers or what. I do know that when you need something from them it can take a while.... I recently needed two AME .15 R/C carbs. I had the importer inquire about availability of these at the factory in Russia and didn't hear back for quite some time. Then one day I got an email saying the carbs were ready...... and that they had to make them specially for me. Now, that would flatter most people but I work in the machine trades... The setup time alone wouldn't have been paid for in making my two carbs. I was pretty blown away by that. I was supplied with 2 needle carbs that were hand made and looked great-the stock carbs were single needle!
To the extent they can, NV Engines seems like they want to make people who buy their products happy. Given that the people who used to run the machines are gone, the machinery is gone, etc. Some things are possible to make people happy, some are not. I've got an issue with one of the new glow/gas motors that I am not going to address with them because I know they can't fix it because they can't/didn't make the part, and it won't hurt performance if I leave it alone. They are TRYING and that is what counts at a time when there are no new engines in smaller sizes on the market.
If they say they are supplying a new piston/cylinder, it will come. Things move slowly-you guys probably don't know this but they didn't have heat in the old Norvel plant and probably don't at the new place they are building/assembling motors. It's COLD in that part of the country and they turned out fantastic little engines that made good on the promises made by cheap bar stock engines designed in the 1960's.
To the extent they can, NV Engines seems like they want to make people who buy their products happy. Given that the people who used to run the machines are gone, the machinery is gone, etc. Some things are possible to make people happy, some are not. I've got an issue with one of the new glow/gas motors that I am not going to address with them because I know they can't fix it because they can't/didn't make the part, and it won't hurt performance if I leave it alone. They are TRYING and that is what counts at a time when there are no new engines in smaller sizes on the market.
If they say they are supplying a new piston/cylinder, it will come. Things move slowly-you guys probably don't know this but they didn't have heat in the old Norvel plant and probably don't at the new place they are building/assembling motors. It's COLD in that part of the country and they turned out fantastic little engines that made good on the promises made by cheap bar stock engines designed in the 1960's.
07-14-2013, 06:46 PM
#21
Senior Member
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: AMB
Gazimoto good idea the piston/liner I got from them a waste of money. Did get an email from them months ago saying they were going to send me an 074 as a diesel for my evaluation that never happened, never produced my guess they are full tilt on the gas 40 martin
Gazimoto good idea the piston/liner I got from them a waste of money. Did get an email from them months ago saying they were going to send me an 074 as a diesel for my evaluation that never happened, never produced my guess they are full tilt on the gas 40 martin
07-15-2013, 01:27 AM
#22
My Feedback: (1)
RE: norvel 074 conversion issue
ORIGINAL: DeviousDave
Go easy on Norvel guys, they are not even close to the same company they were. Most of the talent had to move on to jobs that pay the bills, no idea what relation the current guys are to who ran it before and it they are businessmen or engine designers or what. I do know that when you need something from them it can take a while.... I recently needed two AME .15 R/C carbs. I had the importer inquire about availability of these at the factory in Russia and didn't hear back for quite some time. Then one day I got an email saying the carbs were ready...... and that they had to make them specially for me. Now, that would flatter most people but I work in the machine trades... The setup time alone wouldn't have been paid for in making my two carbs. I was pretty blown away by that. I was supplied with 2 needle carbs that were hand made and looked great-the stock carbs were single needle!
To the extent they can, NV Engines seems like they want to make people who buy their products happy. Given that the people who used to run the machines are gone, the machinery is gone, etc. Some things are possible to make people happy, some are not. I've got an issue with one of the new glow/gas motors that I am not going to address with them because I know they can't fix it because they can't/didn't make the part, and it won't hurt performance if I leave it alone. They are TRYING and that is what counts at a time when there are no new engines in smaller sizes on the market.
If they say they are supplying a new piston/cylinder, it will come. Things move slowly-you guys probably don't know this but they didn't have heat in the old Norvel plant and probably don't at the new place they are building/assembling motors. It's COLD in that part of the country and they turned out fantastic little engines that made good on the promises made by cheap bar stock engines designed in the 1960's.
Go easy on Norvel guys, they are not even close to the same company they were. Most of the talent had to move on to jobs that pay the bills, no idea what relation the current guys are to who ran it before and it they are businessmen or engine designers or what. I do know that when you need something from them it can take a while.... I recently needed two AME .15 R/C carbs. I had the importer inquire about availability of these at the factory in Russia and didn't hear back for quite some time. Then one day I got an email saying the carbs were ready...... and that they had to make them specially for me. Now, that would flatter most people but I work in the machine trades... The setup time alone wouldn't have been paid for in making my two carbs. I was pretty blown away by that. I was supplied with 2 needle carbs that were hand made and looked great-the stock carbs were single needle!
To the extent they can, NV Engines seems like they want to make people who buy their products happy. Given that the people who used to run the machines are gone, the machinery is gone, etc. Some things are possible to make people happy, some are not. I've got an issue with one of the new glow/gas motors that I am not going to address with them because I know they can't fix it because they can't/didn't make the part, and it won't hurt performance if I leave it alone. They are TRYING and that is what counts at a time when there are no new engines in smaller sizes on the market.
If they say they are supplying a new piston/cylinder, it will come. Things move slowly-you guys probably don't know this but they didn't have heat in the old Norvel plant and probably don't at the new place they are building/assembling motors. It's COLD in that part of the country and they turned out fantastic little engines that made good on the promises made by cheap bar stock engines designed in the 1960's.
If you need Norvel/NV 15 or 25 R/C carbies drop me a PM. I have a few just lying around in a box.
Ray
