OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
02-05-2006, 01:00 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
Kostas:
If you are aasking me, I think the FL-70 is an engine to be avoided.
-------------------------
ALL:
Sorry, it was the Surpass II that hit the market with a sealed rear bearing.
Bill.
If you are aasking me, I think the FL-70 is an engine to be avoided.
-------------------------
ALL:
Sorry, it was the Surpass II that hit the market with a sealed rear bearing.
Bill.
02-05-2006, 01:08 PM
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02-05-2006, 02:51 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
ORIGINAL: William Robison
ALL:
Sorry, it was the Surpass II that hit the market with a sealed rear bearing.
Bill.
ALL:
Sorry, it was the Surpass II that hit the market with a sealed rear bearing.
Bill.
02-05-2006, 03:09 PM
#54
02-05-2006, 03:36 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
Bill, it may be time for you to actually buy and use a Surpass II. If you did, you'd then know first hand that the sealed bearing variants of the OS Surpass II line ...
1) are still sold with sealed bearings
2) vent their crankcases through the cam box without needing an open rear bearing
3) provide many hours of service between rear bearing replacements
1) are still sold with sealed bearings
2) vent their crankcases through the cam box without needing an open rear bearing
3) provide many hours of service between rear bearing replacements
02-05-2006, 07:23 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
I bought My FL-70 Fall of 2004 and it still runs fine. There were a few teething problems with tuning it when it was on my Funtana but that may have been my setup. It didn't meet my expectations as far as power goes either, it seems a little less than the 46FX with a 13x6 apc, but that's just me.
Since putting it on my Gee Bee everything is going fine. If no oil is getting to the cam or where ever else it isn't getting then I think this engine is a heck of a bargain. To go for an estimated 60-70 flights, on 2 planes, with no lubrication is amazing. I use Byron, YS 20-20 in the 70 and it loves it, in a Saito82a which runs awesome, and in my 46FX that has never failed in 3 seasons with countless flights.
It may shut my sight down but I'll leave this here for a bit. It's a 2 min video of one of my earlier flights of the Gee Bee with the FL-70. It sounds great and can go at least 30 minutes on 12 oz.
[link=http://webpages.charter.net/rebsix6/images/GeeBee.wmv]Gee Bee FL-70[/link]
Since putting it on my Gee Bee everything is going fine. If no oil is getting to the cam or where ever else it isn't getting then I think this engine is a heck of a bargain. To go for an estimated 60-70 flights, on 2 planes, with no lubrication is amazing. I use Byron, YS 20-20 in the 70 and it loves it, in a Saito82a which runs awesome, and in my 46FX that has never failed in 3 seasons with countless flights.
It may shut my sight down but I'll leave this here for a bit. It's a 2 min video of one of my earlier flights of the Gee Bee with the FL-70. It sounds great and can go at least 30 minutes on 12 oz.
[link=http://webpages.charter.net/rebsix6/images/GeeBee.wmv]Gee Bee FL-70[/link]
02-05-2006, 07:44 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
Bill is a very loyal Saito owner and some would say he is bias.
After tearing down a few engines and inspected them, the Saitos had shown the most cam lobe and follower wear whereas the Enyas showed nearly no wear. Same fuel, similar run time.
The Enyas were both set up with a check valve on the crankcase breather to allow flow out of the case only and were piped in a venturi arrangement into the muffler. The planes stayed clean and it seems they received enough lubrication.
After tearing down a few engines and inspected them, the Saitos had shown the most cam lobe and follower wear whereas the Enyas showed nearly no wear. Same fuel, similar run time.
The Enyas were both set up with a check valve on the crankcase breather to allow flow out of the case only and were piped in a venturi arrangement into the muffler. The planes stayed clean and it seems they received enough lubrication.
02-05-2006, 08:30 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
ORIGINAL: Harry Lagman
Bill, it may be time for you to actually buy and use a Surpass II. If you did, you'd then know first hand that the sealed bearing variants of the OS Surpass II line ...
1) are still sold with sealed bearings
2) vent their crankcases through the cam box without needing an open rear bearing
3) provide many hours of service between rear bearing replacements
Bill, it may be time for you to actually buy and use a Surpass II. If you did, you'd then know first hand that the sealed bearing variants of the OS Surpass II line ...
1) are still sold with sealed bearings
2) vent their crankcases through the cam box without needing an open rear bearing
3) provide many hours of service between rear bearing replacements
08-26-2008, 08:04 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
I think that people like giving their opinion on the virtues or misses about new engines. In the case of OS engines, a lot of folks on here have very strong opinions against this Japanese brand for reasons that are unknown to most of us. What is really known is that 99.9% of the time, those opinions are based on hearsay or just plain fabrications/speculations.
The FL 70 has been offered by OS for many years and that in itself should be adequate proof that the product is of good quality and a valuable addition to the hanger of any discriminating hobbyist.
The FL 70 has been offered by OS for many years and that in itself should be adequate proof that the product is of good quality and a valuable addition to the hanger of any discriminating hobbyist.
08-26-2008, 11:17 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
ORIGINAL: doublesixes
I think that people like giving their opinion on the virtues or misses about new engines. In the case of OS engines, a lot of folks on here have very strong opinions against this Japanese brand for reasons that are unknown to most of us. What is really known is that 99.9% of the time, those opinions are based on hearsay or just plain fabrications/speculations.
The FL 70 has been offered by OS for many years and that in itself should be adequate proof that the product is of good quality and a valuable addition to the hanger of any discriminating hobbyist.
I think that people like giving their opinion on the virtues or misses about new engines. In the case of OS engines, a lot of folks on here have very strong opinions against this Japanese brand for reasons that are unknown to most of us. What is really known is that 99.9% of the time, those opinions are based on hearsay or just plain fabrications/speculations.
The FL 70 has been offered by OS for many years and that in itself should be adequate proof that the product is of good quality and a valuable addition to the hanger of any discriminating hobbyist.
Holy Moly, you're about two years late on this discussion.
10-13-2008, 02:00 AM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
I have this engine in the phoenix yak 54. It's mounted almost fully inverted. The airbleed is tricky. Mine loads up alot probably because its inverted. SO I had to back the airbleed way out to keep it from stopping. Then you have to re-adjust the high end which needed to be richened more, oddly. It has pretty decent power but took me a while to get it tuned to run with out loading up. Once I got it set up, it runs very well with a 13x6, although I'd rather have a 12x8 or 13x8 if it can handle it.
I am not a fan of how the crank shaft is set up. There is a hole drilled through the crank shaft where a very lose dowel pin sits. A cap is placed over it to which the spinner then gets installed. There is probably about 1/4 inch lee way or shake just from the cap turning, not the crank shaft. It works but its just crap engineering. When you replace a prop all this just comes apart in your lap pin and all. It's not difficult to put back together its just comical that it falls apart. It really reminds you quick that its a cheap 4 stroke.
If you don't like airbleeds and just want more quality and more tuning ability with the low end, spend another 100 bucks and go with a big 4 stroke name. If you want a bargain 4 stroke to put in a beater, and your curious about 4 strokes and want to give it a whirl, it's not bad.
I am not a fan of how the crank shaft is set up. There is a hole drilled through the crank shaft where a very lose dowel pin sits. A cap is placed over it to which the spinner then gets installed. There is probably about 1/4 inch lee way or shake just from the cap turning, not the crank shaft. It works but its just crap engineering. When you replace a prop all this just comes apart in your lap pin and all. It's not difficult to put back together its just comical that it falls apart. It really reminds you quick that its a cheap 4 stroke.
If you don't like airbleeds and just want more quality and more tuning ability with the low end, spend another 100 bucks and go with a big 4 stroke name. If you want a bargain 4 stroke to put in a beater, and your curious about 4 strokes and want to give it a whirl, it's not bad.
10-14-2008, 02:42 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
I used this engine for about 6 months before I even saw any of this bashing here at RCU. For all I knew it was one of the best little 4 strokes on the market. I ran a APC 13x4W and would get 10.5K out consistently. I had the engine mounted inverted in a GP Reactor and it never once dead sticked or gave me any problems. No it is not a pwerhouse but it is a good first 4-stroke for someone to try out. Mine idled dead slow and very rarely needed any tuning. I eventually stepped up to a Saito 82 but only cause I got it CHEAP from a friend. For just some simple sport flying the FL-70 is a great bargain and a reliable engine.
12-01-2008, 03:46 AM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
It takes a lot of fuel to run this engine. I would try running it at over 1/2 throttle and leave the setting where it is. I found it was the only way to sort mine out. These engines are very hard to tune. It only takes 1 click to get it too rich or too lean.
12-01-2008, 08:16 AM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
ORIGINAL: speedair
It takes a lot of fuel to run this engine. I would try running it at over 1/2 throttle and leave the setting where it is. I found it was the only way to sort mine out. These engines are very hard to tune. It only takes 1 click to get it too rich or too lean.
It takes a lot of fuel to run this engine. I would try running it at over 1/2 throttle and leave the setting where it is. I found it was the only way to sort mine out. These engines are very hard to tune. It only takes 1 click to get it too rich or too lean.
12-01-2008, 11:08 AM
#65
RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
ORIGINAL: speedair
It takes a lot of fuel to run this engine. I would try running it at over 1/2 throttle and leave the setting where it is. I found it was the only way to sort mine out. These engines are very hard to tune. It only takes 1 click to get it too rich or too lean.
It takes a lot of fuel to run this engine. I would try running it at over 1/2 throttle and leave the setting where it is. I found it was the only way to sort mine out. These engines are very hard to tune. It only takes 1 click to get it too rich or too lean.
12-01-2008, 01:26 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
Hi!
Most of the time it our own fault that an engine runs bad. As I said way back in 2005: " There is nothing wrong with this engine"!
no one listened then...hope someone is listening now!
If you have problem with a modern Japanese or whatever engine it is, 99% its you to blame! Simple as that.
To run any four stroke you have to use at least 5% nitro. 10% nitro is better and 15% is most of the time overkill. Why use nitro you say??? Because nitro makes Any engine run better (throttle better adjust better) and its just foolish to not using it...at least 5%.
Second it vital that you use adequate fuel, that means using either commercial fuel or a fuel you blend yourself that you know is working in other engines. Over here in Europe its very common to use just 10-15% all synthetic oil or a mix with some Castor oil and synthetic and many mix their own fuel.
In the US it seems that most fliers use commercial fuel and as such 20% oil has been the norm.
To have a well running engine you have to prop it right and use the correct glow plug and keep everything clean!
When it comes to glow plugs the manufacturers makes it very simple for us modelers as there are only one plug to use in most four strokes and that is the OS F plug. There are other plugs too of course that work too, but if you run any four stroke with a fuel containing 0-10% nitro the OS F glow plug is hard to beat.
When it comes to propellers for the OS .70 four stroke, 13x6 is a good one to try, at least at sea level.
Always aim for a max rpm slightly under 10000rpm!! Remember that all engines rew up in the air and as such valve float can occur if you prop it much higher on the ground. APC is considered by the wast majority of fliers world wide, to be one of the best.
Setting an engine is perhaps an art ...I don't know! But I haven't had any difficulties hearing... when the rpm peak is reached ...it's easy! A tach isn't necessary at all but for those that don't find it easy to hear a 100-300rpm difference ...use one!
As for using a shielded bearing ...this has nothing to do with how much oil is going through the bearing, The cam is having adequate oil as it is.
Most of the time it our own fault that an engine runs bad. As I said way back in 2005: " There is nothing wrong with this engine"!
no one listened then...hope someone is listening now!
If you have problem with a modern Japanese or whatever engine it is, 99% its you to blame! Simple as that.
To run any four stroke you have to use at least 5% nitro. 10% nitro is better and 15% is most of the time overkill. Why use nitro you say??? Because nitro makes Any engine run better (throttle better adjust better) and its just foolish to not using it...at least 5%.
Second it vital that you use adequate fuel, that means using either commercial fuel or a fuel you blend yourself that you know is working in other engines. Over here in Europe its very common to use just 10-15% all synthetic oil or a mix with some Castor oil and synthetic and many mix their own fuel.
In the US it seems that most fliers use commercial fuel and as such 20% oil has been the norm.
To have a well running engine you have to prop it right and use the correct glow plug and keep everything clean!
When it comes to glow plugs the manufacturers makes it very simple for us modelers as there are only one plug to use in most four strokes and that is the OS F plug. There are other plugs too of course that work too, but if you run any four stroke with a fuel containing 0-10% nitro the OS F glow plug is hard to beat.
When it comes to propellers for the OS .70 four stroke, 13x6 is a good one to try, at least at sea level.
Always aim for a max rpm slightly under 10000rpm!! Remember that all engines rew up in the air and as such valve float can occur if you prop it much higher on the ground. APC is considered by the wast majority of fliers world wide, to be one of the best.
Setting an engine is perhaps an art ...I don't know! But I haven't had any difficulties hearing... when the rpm peak is reached ...it's easy! A tach isn't necessary at all but for those that don't find it easy to hear a 100-300rpm difference ...use one!
As for using a shielded bearing ...this has nothing to do with how much oil is going through the bearing, The cam is having adequate oil as it is.
03-09-2010, 03:41 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
I bought my engine about 3 years ago, so in 2007 which means it wasn't from the first batch of engines unless my HS has it sitting there for a while before I bought it :/. I didn't know of all the feedback online when I bought it, I probably wouldn't have bought it. It is installed on a Hangar 9 Cherokee. I broke it in per the instructions and flew it 5-6 times. I never got it tuned right and it died several times while flying...not to mention that you could hear it backfiring sometimes too. I attribute this to less than ideal break-in, fuel and/or lack of tuning ability.
Regardless, I started my own business which took all of my time and the airplane sat for about 2 years. I want to get back to flying and everything looks good but all this reading has me worried. The engine is new enough (only about 7-8 tanks of fuel through it if that, only got through about 2/3 gallon of fuel including break-in) that I am pretty sure nothing is damaged inside(it looks good) but I am now worried about lubrication more than anything. Tuning I can figure out...or I can just swap the carb which I have done in the past but the lube stuff just creeps me out.
So, in conclusion, do I want to:
- Open my engine and remove the rear bearing seal if there is one?
- Unplug the line from the muffler to the crankcase and let it vent down to minimize "acids" in there? (or will this diminish lubrication?)
- Oil my camshaft and rockers after every run?
Or should I just run the engine as it is and enjoy one I break it in and tune it properly? Different people have posted different results so I am confused...
Sorry for bringing an old thread back from the dead.
Thanks
Chris
Regardless, I started my own business which took all of my time and the airplane sat for about 2 years. I want to get back to flying and everything looks good but all this reading has me worried. The engine is new enough (only about 7-8 tanks of fuel through it if that, only got through about 2/3 gallon of fuel including break-in) that I am pretty sure nothing is damaged inside(it looks good) but I am now worried about lubrication more than anything. Tuning I can figure out...or I can just swap the carb which I have done in the past but the lube stuff just creeps me out.
So, in conclusion, do I want to:
- Open my engine and remove the rear bearing seal if there is one?
- Unplug the line from the muffler to the crankcase and let it vent down to minimize "acids" in there? (or will this diminish lubrication?)
- Oil my camshaft and rockers after every run?
Or should I just run the engine as it is and enjoy one I break it in and tune it properly? Different people have posted different results so I am confused...
Sorry for bringing an old thread back from the dead.
Thanks
Chris
03-09-2010, 04:45 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
So, in conclusion, do I want to:
- Open my engine and remove the rear bearing seal if there is one?
- Unplug the line from the muffler to the crankcase and let it vent down to minimize "acids" in there? (or will this diminish lubrication?)
- Oil my camshaft and rockers after every run?
Or should I just run the engine as it is and enjoy one I break it in and tune it properly? Different people have posted different results so I am confused...
- Open my engine and remove the rear bearing seal if there is one?
- Unplug the line from the muffler to the crankcase and let it vent down to minimize "acids" in there? (or will this diminish lubrication?)
- Oil my camshaft and rockers after every run?
Or should I just run the engine as it is and enjoy one I break it in and tune it properly? Different people have posted different results so I am confused...
- NEVER EVER remove the silicone line from the muffler to the crankcase, that's how the engine gets lubrication on the big end. That is NOT a vent line! If you watch the engine while running at WOT you will see oil getting sucked into the crankcase from the muffler. I say WOT because that's when the oil flow is more noticeable due to the increased oil flux.
- Oiling the rockers every 5 tanks is more than enough. Get some decent oil down the lifter tubes and on the rocker area and just check it occasionaly.
Give it more run-in time, mine has been only bench-run for like 2 liters of fuel and it still squeeks near TDC for being so tight. Make sure you change glow plug after the initial 6 flights or so, as the plug's filament gets contaminated from the metal particles resultant of the initial run-in wear. I have 4 plugs that I use exclusively for running-in on the bench.
03-09-2010, 05:05 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
To Patxipt:
- Which 10-15% fuel is best for this engine being that its different from std 4strokes, coolpower?, omega?
- If it has the sealed bearing, do I remove the seal from both sides of the bearing or just the rear one?
- What oil should I use to lube up the rockers, lifter tubes, cam etc?
Thanks for the responses to all.
Chris
- Which 10-15% fuel is best for this engine being that its different from std 4strokes, coolpower?, omega?
- If it has the sealed bearing, do I remove the seal from both sides of the bearing or just the rear one?
- What oil should I use to lube up the rockers, lifter tubes, cam etc?
Thanks for the responses to all.
Chris
03-09-2010, 05:19 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
I can't help you fuel wise as I use self mixed 20%/80% oil/methanol fuel.
If the main bearing is sealed, you need to remove from both sides for oil to pass.
castor oil works great for rocker lubrication, but any type of engine oil will do to lube the rocker area, even automobile oil will do.
If the main bearing is sealed, you need to remove from both sides for oil to pass.
castor oil works great for rocker lubrication, but any type of engine oil will do to lube the rocker area, even automobile oil will do.
03-09-2010, 09:55 PM
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RE: OS FL 70's, junk or otherwise????
I just opened the engine up and it does have a sealed BB. :O
are you 100% sure about this cross drilled hole? why are some people saying to remove the seals? is it just conclusions without actual facts? Also, is it true that later production motors didn't have the sealed BB'sl?
I did an experiment, I took the rocker cover off and I tried blowing into the crankcase through where the back plate goes and I was not able to blow at all. It is perfectly sealed. If there was a way from crankcase oil to get into the camshaft and valve train, wouldn't there be at least some flow?
Also, if I have to remove the rear bearing to remove the seal, where can I get a DIY on putting the engine back together with the correct timing?
On another note the engine looks great inside...a very tiny bit of corrosion on the rockers but other than that it is impeccable so I think I can still save it.
Thanks to all for the comments.
Chris
are you 100% sure about this cross drilled hole? why are some people saying to remove the seals? is it just conclusions without actual facts? Also, is it true that later production motors didn't have the sealed BB'sl?
I did an experiment, I took the rocker cover off and I tried blowing into the crankcase through where the back plate goes and I was not able to blow at all. It is perfectly sealed. If there was a way from crankcase oil to get into the camshaft and valve train, wouldn't there be at least some flow?
Also, if I have to remove the rear bearing to remove the seal, where can I get a DIY on putting the engine back together with the correct timing?
On another note the engine looks great inside...a very tiny bit of corrosion on the rockers but other than that it is impeccable so I think I can still save it.
Thanks to all for the comments.
Chris
