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Old Glue Joints

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Old 07-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #1
rc lifer
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Default Old Glue Joints

I picked up a built Top Flite Taurus at a local swap meet. It was built probably 30+ years ago, by a very good builder, it is straight and it is light. I am stripping the silk and dope off of it for a rebuild, and I have a question perhaps someone might be able to answer for me. The talented fellow who built it, used a cement like Ambroid for the most part(its orange in color). What adhesive should I use on the joints to reinforce them? I am thinking thin CA but I have never tried a rebuild/refurbish this extensive before and I haven't yet had the pleasure of dealing with a project this old, nor one where the adhesive is, shall I say "old school". Iam pretty happy to have found it and am looking forward to flying it. If any of you kit builders out there have done anything like this, I would very much appreciate your input.
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

If it's built right and covered with silk, why strip it? I have planes that are over 30 years old that have orange Ambroid glue and they're still kicking. At that point, if you're good with the glue joints, what about the covering? Man, silk and dope kicks butt over anything we use these days! I'd say just fly the thing.

Dave
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

While I doubt a little touch of CA would do any harm, if it were mine I'd agree with dbacque. Silk & dope is cool and retro.
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:44 AM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

Leave the silk and give it a new paint job if you must!
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints


I have to agree withthe previous posted recommendations.

I have models that were built in the late 1950s and early 1960s (fifty years old) that are as solid and have good tight finish. They were covered with old silk stockings from my mother and doped

It is of course your decision but I would just go and make it flyable without recovering.

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Old 07-19-2013, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

Thanks for the input guys. I have already pulled the silk off. The dope was spliting and cracking. Yes I agree that silk and dope are a very pretty way to finish a plane, but I did the stripping right after I got it home a while back. I took 14 oz of material off the airframe so far, its light now. I am going to replace the verticle and rudder, the builder put a non stock P51 style tail with a verticle hindge line, will put it back to stock. I am in the process of sanding the silk/dope off the fues, it is over a 1/16 of an inch thick in some places, will be a couple more oz's lighter when I get it ready to cover. I am in no hurry, I have other projets going along with this one. The colors were brown, green and musturd yellow all which were flat finish, I bought it just to get the airframe. I would realy like to build one from the TF kit but canot afford an original. I do have a replica Taurus(Primus) kit from Classic RC. But it is a lot different, D tube wing constuction is the big difference. When I last went to the Classic rc website it appears he has suspended production of all his kits due to new job requirements. I should have orderded one of the Simla Kits while they were avalible. He produced high quality kits.
I realy enjoy building but I am very, very slow. I do have fun while Iam doing it. My latest build was a B70 from the Competition Models kit plan with changes to make it an Electric RC. It turned out well but I sanded the sheet wing to thin and cant keep it from warping out of shape. I need to replace that wing. So many projects and so little time.

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Old 07-19-2013, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

I would question how CA would work over an Ambroid joint. I would be afraid that you would not get a good bond to the wood if ambroid was 'insulating' the wood.

Personally, I would suggest using CA anywhere that you have fresh wood and more ambroid where you have an existing smear of ambroid already, say, at a broken glue joint. But ambroid is also very heavy so use it sparingly. But I remember double-gluing joints with ambroid years ago and they were very strong..

And, if you replace any wood, don't use CA any place where you intend to sand.

Just my $.02

Bob
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

Last time I finished/rebuilt an old plane it was still in the bones without any covering. Some of the glue that was used was a bit brittle and some of the sticks would pop out. Aliphatic wood glue was used and it had soaked into the wood so CA wouldn't keep the parts stuck together. I ended up using epoxy to glue the sticks back in then used epoxy I had heated with a heat gun to go over some of the joints. It worked pretty well. The plane was hanging for over 20 years when I got it and 10 years later it is still being flown.Like everyone else I used Ambroids for all my building as a kid. I no longer have any of my old planes from the 50s and 60s but a cousin still has one of my Miss Thriftway Hydro Plane boats that he still takes out once in a while to show his grand kids how we did things before RC. It was built in about 1955 and the Ambroids is still holding strong.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:06 PM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

In my experience, orange Ambroid joints don't come loose very often but when they do I usually just use thin CA UNDER the Ambroid. Many of my own planes were put together with DuCo cement (remember that stuff?I still like to use it - it works) and they're still holding just fine - and 4 of my presently flying planes were built prior to 1970 with it.

Really, if the joint's good, Iwouldn't touch it. If it needs help, CA or maybe epoxy in some places would be the way to go.

Understood about old silk &dope coverings getting brittle. IMHO, I've become quite a fan of SIGKoverall and dope. Stuff's a pain sometimes to work with (rather messy, at least for me) but once dry it's nearly indestructible. You nearly need a gun to put a hole in it.

Hey, good luck with the Taurus - they're great fliers.


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Old 07-26-2013, 10:27 AM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

Well I don't know what I am dong wrong but I cant get Ambroid to work for me anymore.. I bought 6 tubes of it a while back and I tried it out and every joint failed.. I ,tried all the old double glueing tricks and still they just let go.. I clamped them and left them for 12 hrs ,tried all sorts of tricks but I had no luck.. I used to love that stuff.. The smell is heavenly....Did they change the formula ?When I first started out that is all I ever used...I would still use it for lots of things like wing skins because it sands so nicely..
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

Well I don't know what I am dong wrong but I cant get Ambroid to work for me anymore.. I bought 6 tubes of it a while back and I tried it out and every joint failed.. I ,tried all the old double glueing tricks and still they just let go.. I clamped them and left them for 12 hrs ,tried all sorts of tricks but I had no luck.. I used to love that stuff.. The smell is heavenly....Did they change the formula ?When I first started out that is all I ever used...I would still use it for lots of things like wing skins because it sands so nicely..
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:30 AM
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

Sounds like the old glue saturated the wood and the new glue can't penitrate the wood to get a good joint.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:44 PM
  #13
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Default RE: Old Glue Joints

Can you get in to the area enough to scuff up the old ambroid? I wonder if it has something like old oil, etc., which might have seeped in and is keeping the Ambroid from penetrating?

You wouldn't by chance be 'cleaning' the joint with rubbing alcohol, would you? That might leave something behind that would prevent the glue from sticking, I think.

I just used some last night to glue a piece of balsa shim to some maple. It sanded nicely with the joint staying nice and solid.

Just my $.02

Bob
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