DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Firsts i like to thank you in advance for your time reading this cause it came out litle too long but also to say sorry for my poor English.
Long story short.. i sed ill give a go with this BB cf spinners and got one for my "50cc" airframe from here


http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...OD&ProdID=4629


The spinner arived with the carbon fiber part to have 4mm holes ,and with M3 screws (3mm OD).
This gives a 1mm free space all around all screws
Espritmodels owner confirm that all C/F BB spinners are like that and mine was no diferent!


Few days later the spinner was ready for the first flight.The back plate was drilled and the spinner had been cut for the prop.
The prop was balanced to perfection ( blades and hubs=stayed where you left her on the balancer) .The prop didnt touch the CF spinner on the openings and the M3 where all screw in place with Locktite threadlock.


IMHO the friction force between the screw head and the carbon part its not so strong to stop the spinner moving because this extra 1mm of free gap around the screw and place the hole spinner offset sooner or later.
So the oversized holes on the carbon part in combine with the poor carbon fiber cloth ( single thin layer/cheap wave cloth )
and the poor resin used , and the acceleration and vibrations from a 60cc motor ,didnt stoped the holes from geting biger and the spinner to start moving .

In resolt to explode during flight 1min after take off shouting carbon blades to all directions.
Thank god it didnt explode during engine tests on the runway and no one got hurt.I landed the plane fine but the prop was also destroid.

Later that day when i got back i emailed esprit models right away.
It felt that they where prepaired and had some unswers right away for my case.So i got a " you didnt use a threadlock in the screws(=i lost them) , but will give you a 40$ gift sertificate "


.This screws are so rare!.. at least in Europe.M3 metric body with inch alen head! So if i had loose them during flight because i didnt use threadlock i couldn not replace them right away!
So next morning i shiped back the backplate+screws to espritmodels so they see i never lost a screw but also see the threadlock on this screws.


A week later when they got the spinner i got an email saying that "You have damage the spinner and this is not a warranty issue .You should be pleased with the 40$ gift sertificate"

I sed to them unless there is some one there can explane to me exacly what i done and damage the spinner,so i learn something out of this,
i would like my 80$ back and no gift certificate.

I am no expert but i do cut and fly Mejzlik cf spinners for my self and others for more than 7 years and fly them with no failure.
Here are some : http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...y&memid=100568

At the end of the day my loss is 80$ the spinner + 30$ shiping the backplate back to them from overseas + 50$ the damaged prop...and thankfully no inturies.

So here comes the good part !The email i got from the OWNER (named ZB) when i asked my 80$ back when no one could explane me what i did wrong:


_________________________

From: @espritmodel.com
Subject: RE: BB Spinner
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 09:27:28 -0400



George, this is Zb response to you:


How silly M3 screw needs 3mm hole, hole needs to be always larger.

I do not understand why only people from Greece or Italy has ALWAYS problems. Very little problems with Scandinavians, Germans or even Czechs.
If you start saying that I will go on on-line forums spreading rumors, I will make sure that nobody from US will do business ever with you.
We did offer you %50 credit I think that is absolutely reasonable for your ignorance.

Have a nice day.
Zb

Esprit Model

www.espritmodel.com

1240 Clearmont St. NE #12

Palm Bay, FL, 32905, USA

_________________________
-


Bear in mind that for espritmodels i WAS a 4ooo$+ customer in orders .Note the attachment.


so lesson one:for an M3 screw it only takes a 3mm hole!Try it or ask a machinist.

and the lesson i took: "never argue with an idiot. they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"



your comments are wellcome

CrashingXpert

My Feedback: (2)

That was not nice[:'(] I won't order from them again.

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

They guy that runs espritmodels must be a moron! He lost a $4000 customer over a spinner.

I had a bad experience with him at the Wrams show a couple of years ago. He had a plane that was $428 in the catalog, but at the show the sign on it said it was $248, I figured it was a good show special so I told the helper I'll take it. As the helper was righting up the order the guy comes over and said I was trying to steal it, that I knew it was $428. Well F***YOU, you dyslexic A**hole! I never bought anything from him since.

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

Cures me from ever buying anything from them. I will not support a vendor that has the audacity to actually send an email like that.

karolh

Wow, I read it but I still can't believe it. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot, as that e-mail response sure beats all.

Karol

rafeeki

My Feedback: (11)

I learned early on in my professional life as a construction project manager that anything you put in writing could become public especially in case of a dispute....
No I was never trained as a lawyer but had to put on that hat on occaisons and see things from the other's point of view.

Johnnie Red

Well , I have no words to discribe this amateur behaviour. They need to take some marketing behaviour lessons and they need it fast!!!!

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Found it!!

I took a photo after the first engine run before the first take off just to compare the size of the holes after the flight .
But never imagen the spinner would never make it back and i never found it.



Clearly you can see the hole got bigger.The quality of the carbon part didnt hold to engines test accelerations.


...thank you for the suport my kind of people!I now feel i got my 80$ back!

JJKOR

What an UNACCEPTABLE AND UNPROFESSIONAL behavior !!!!

First Mr "Esprite" are you implying something about Greeks???? At least we know that an M3 fits through an 3mm hole!!!!

Second instead of giving the benefit of the doubt to the customer you dare to threaten him that you or any other US company will not to business with him again????
I have seen many companies not having customers to sell their products but I have NOT seen any customer with CASH in hand not having companies to sell them products.

Keep it this way Esprit and you will soon be out of business.

No more buying from Esprit for me and my friends.

Gerasimos

kordi

<style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }</style><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">I cannot believe what I am reading, specially from a shop like Espritmodels.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">Sorry for your unbelievable unprofessional behavior.</p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">Another on of your stupid Greek customers lost.</p>

[email protected]

My Feedback: (6)

Maybe ZB was trying to be funny. I hope so. It's hard to believe he has been successful this far if he is really that poor a businessman.

My father (a businessman) taught me as a boy: #1 business goal is to stay in business... #2 is to make a profit.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I have to agree that his attitude was very poor. I doubt that I will ever buy anything from Esprit. However I can assure you that I think the hole size may have been correct. The worst thing that can be done is to have CF rubbing against threads. That will eat away at the CF very rapidly and cause stress fractures. If the spinner was manufactured with poor materials it just makes this worse. My question is what caused the screws to get loose and chew up the surrounding material? If I was ZB after looking up your order history I would have sent out a new spinner and thanked you for your continued business.

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Theadlock its been used(red locktite). The screws never got loose!

The carbon resin part haS no elastisity and its gloss.This means there is NOT MUCH FRICTION between the carbon and the screw head to stop the spinner from moving regardless the tightness of the screws,and crashing to the walls of the holes.

Acceleration and vibrations from a 50cc gas engine doesnt go along well with poor products[:'(]

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

What you say is not corect . When the screws are tight there is no "rubbing against threads" .

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

You seem to be contradicting yourself in the last 2 posts. In the picture you posted the screw hole is clearly elongated from rubbing against the screw. Your quote "Theadlock its been used(red locktite). The screws never got loose!

The carbon resin part haS no elastisity and its gloss.This means there is NOT MUCH FRICTION between the carbon and the screw head to stop the spinner from moving regardless the tightness of the screws,and crashing to the walls of the holes."

And then "When the screws are tight there is no "rubbing against threads" .



First off, a CF part having no elasticity is by design. It's supposed to be ridged. The glossy finish of the spinner is not going to subtract from the clamping forces applied from the screw either. Now it is obvious to me that the spinner did shift at some point and that is the failure. The screws came loose for one reason or another so maybe we can come up with some causes. You said you used red locktite, did you clean the screws and the holes first? What torque was applied to the screws? Is your engine set up correctly? An engine that is running too hot can pre-ignite. I have seen prop bolts shear because of this, certanly it would be very rough on a spinner of this design. These are things you may want to check into as they have the potential to keep giving you issues until you can verify they are not happening. As a valued customer I would have still replaced your spinner but offered these possible causes rather then being an a**.


I urge you to at least consider what I have said. My qualifications to offer this advise is that I work in a composites shop that manufactures parts for US military aircraft and have been running 50cc to 170 cc engines in the IMAC airplanes I compete with since 1997.

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Hello sir
im not contradicting at all.The screws where tight never got loose!Never moved!
In the picture you see the holes elongated corect!This is because holes walls crashed on the screw during engine acceleration because there was free space..
Friction between the screw head and carbon is not strong to keep spinner from moving even when screws where tighten. Thats why you need 3mm hole on an M3 screw so the acceleration to be passed AT THE SAME TIME to the carbon part and not have a free space to travel =crash on the walls ,and then transfer the acceleration.



Thank you for the aprotunity you give me to cover all options....forgive my poor english