critterhunter

Hey all, been searching the net for some free foam build plans for my first attempt at one. I was hoping to find a plan using the 540 motor and Sub Cs that struck my fancy. In the process, I wanted to find a first build that would be easy and simple for slow learners like me. [8D] Think I found one at this link...

http://www.qnet.com/~skif/plane.html

This plane looks somewhat like a P38 to me and could probably be made to really look like one with some minor cosmetic changes. It's a dual boom pusher prop design using EPS foam that can be bought cheap and easy at Home Depot or Lowes. The guy even goes into detail for first timers like me on working with the foam. This 3 foot wingspan bird uses a 400 motor and an 8 cell pack. I'll probably build one at these dimensions using a BP21 brushless motor and 2000ma 3 cell lipo. I'd also like to scale up the size of it to use a 540 brushed motor and 6 or 7 cell Sub C battery packs. If anybody can tell me a formula to increase the size of the plans to handle this extra weight that'd be great.

critterhunter

Did some snooping on the net and found this guys main website. You foam builders have to check out his "Project History" photos. This guy has built some really cool craft out of foam as well as other materials.

http://www.qnet.com/~skif/rcmain.html

Fisher

Yes! I have been thinking about building my first foamie too. And this plane looks like it has great potential. It even looks like you could fly it right off the water. There are already 3 foam pontoons on the bottom. It might as well be a Hydrofoam. Thanks for posting this.

You are flying a Stryker too are you not? I just dumped a lipo into mine and OMG is it fun all over again. I started stripping servos etc. so I am now fully involved with a new TX and standard electronics.

Thanks again for posting this.

critterhunter

Your welcome for me pointing out these plans, but Email and thank the guy who made it all possible. They look simple for a first time build yet it's a cool looking plane. Talked to the author and he has a few more points to add that I'll post when I go over them. COG spot, etc...the few little loose ends that will help us newbie foam builders get it right the first time. I'm in the process of digging up simple and cheap hot wire cutter plans to build it. The way I understand it all the cuts can be done with a hacksaw but to do the wing airfoil it'll be a lot easier with a hot wire cutter. Will also post that info when I gather it.

I've found out through the help of others how to upscale this plane's dimensions to handle a 540 brushed motor and Sub C packs. Once I've tweaked out that info I'll also post it. I plan to build the plane first using it's stock dimensions using a BP21 brushless motor and 3 cell 2000ma lipos. Same setup I use in my Stryker and she is FAST with plenty of power. Once I've mastered the build using stock dimensions I'm going to build the 540 version which should be a BIG horse in the air and will be done up to look like a P38. I'll keep you posted.

Hot wire cutters are simple to make, by the way...with only a few parts that you can often find in your garage. Not much to them.

Yea, the Stryker can't be beat for fun and potential, along with easy to find cheap parts at the local hobby store. Do yourself a favor and try a BP21 with the BP30 amp speed control from Balsa products. Buy them as a combo and the price is only like $56 total. With Dymond Motorsports 2000ma 3 cell 10C lipos (cheapest on the market at only $35) I get long run times and a fast motor. Pushes the Stryker in the 80mph range using a 7x6 prop (best all around prop to use on it). Using Hitec HS81 (Or the Metal Gear version is even better) servos. You'll never go back to stock again. I've taken the jump with a JRsx600 sport computer radio and JR sport 6 channel RX (VERY small with great range). Check the Stryker thread in the parkfliers forum for all the info you'll need.

Fisher

Critter,

Sounds like your off and running. I was looking closer at the plan info and then felt the hook set when I tried to understand the airfoil. 2 hours on the web and I am still in the dark. I am having trouble with my e-mail account so it is hard to e-mail Foamflyer. Any detail you can share on laying out the wing and shaping it will be very helpful. Still looks to me like this plane could be made to run on water with very little effort. A side view of the plan would help as well since he really did not detail the size and shape of much other than the wing and horizontal stab.

I already dropped a Lipo into my Stryker and am in the process of collecting the gear to go to brushless. Went with Hitech Optic 6 radio. Did not want to have to upgrade in the future. I am all in now.


Good Flying

critterhunter

Don't panic! As a matter of fact I just emailed him ealier today about the airfoil. The way it looks to me you take a hot wire cutter and simply cut a curve into the leading edge of the wing...the rest being flat. Still, I wanted to be sure and also needed to know if there is a certain degree of curve I need to measure out. He hasn't got back to me yet but told me the other day on a different topic about the plane that he'd be updating his website plans for it to clear up stuff for us newbies. Yep, bet it'll float with little or no modification. You'd probably just need a small flot hanging down from about mid wing on each side to keep it level. His design only uses two servos...one for the elevator and one for one wing flap. I plan to use two wing flaps (more control) so that'll mean three servos. Then there is the fact that I've never flew a plane with a seperate elevator and airleons. All my experience has been V-tail & Delta wing, which are both pretty much the same thing. Should be fun! Not even sure yet but I think you can mix the two control surfaces for this plane's type of setup onto one stick on the computer radio. The learning is always fun but usual involves lots of crashing...

Fisher

Critter,

I found another site with all kinds of good info on cutting the foam and even got a free demo version of a software package that lays out the airfoil (CompuFoil). The demo version gets you a Clark-Y airfoil as suggested by Foamflyer. Only difference is that there is some curve to the bottom side of the wing which is not detailed on Faomflyers plans. His wing shows a flat bottom side. If it truly is a flat bottom then it would be even easier to cut but it would be nice to know just how he shapes it. I look forward to his updated pages.

Only other modification would be to add rudder control (that would come later on version 2 or 3) so you can steer on the water. Not sure you would need any other floats on the wings since the tail booms would give you some roll stability on water.

This is a good way to communicate and keep excited about building one of these.

AJ1202

Critter and Fisher,, hey guys not to butt in but I love to try to build from scratch and have built about 5 planes now most not very successfull in flight but when I saw this one I couldn't resist. Good job finding and posting this one Critter. anyway I decided to go a little different way on this one, I decided to make it 2 channel first to see if I could make it fly, then go to scale or larger and go all out 400 motor full ailerons and elevator and make the booms just a little wider so it would make a water plane, I figured I'd put CF tubes on bottm for landing on gound and for strength. Here is a pic of my 2 channel attempt which by the way fly's real good. I have found that due to the twin tail rudder size is very important as it seriously effects the turning of this design. If it is too tall or wide the turns are very labored or slow to react. I think ailerons will solve this problem. in the pic the lower cockpit is the battery and the one on top is the electronics, I know it's a little crude but I get in a hurry sometimes but I will say this one is worth taking your time with. I wouldn't do the water rudder unless you don't think the ailerons will make it turn on water. mine is made using wing and tail from an old FB outlaw
I have since lowered the top of the booms to make them even with the wing, wing to rudder and it did improve flight stability
I can't wait to start the full size version, but I don't think I will try to build the wing I think I'll just buy... maybe a Cub wing or something like that to use. Not that good at this building yet but I love trying
I will watch the post here because I would like to see how you guys do with this little bird, maybe pickup some new ideas
Good Luck Guys

critterhunter

Hey, thanks for jumping in and cool ideas on modding these plans! Never thought to use the wing off something else....Still, I like the "squarish" look of this guy's plans. It makes it look like a WWII bomber. Just gives it that look of "strength", if you know what I mean. Like I said, I'll be tweaking it out cosmeticly to look like a P38 unless some other WWII bomber that looks similar strikes my fancy. In fact, I think the british or somebody had a small bomber that looked like this with dual booms and even had a pusher prop. If anybody knows of WWII planes that look like what I'm talking about please post a link. The stock dimension bird with a BP21 brushless motor and 2000ma 3 cell lipos should rock and roll. I'll probably go to a different prop than the 7x6 I'm using on the BP21 Stryker...something that will give it more torque and less speed. I want it to be a horse in the air. Then again, this one could be built for speed and the upscaled 540 version I'm going to build will be the torque monster. We'll see....plently of beers to drink before I make those decisions.

By the way, I'm glad I found those planes too! I was doing hours of searching for 540 motor foamie plans when somehow these plans popped up. Don't remember what word search I did but these plans aren't easy to find, for me anyway. Then, a few days later I couldn't find the link back to them again. Took me a while of desperate searching until I found them again. A lot of junk and dead ends out there...but if you dig for free foamie plans you'll find some real good ones.

Fisher

AJ1205

Butt in all you want. You are atleast cutting foam and flying things. I am still looking at where to jump in.

Good flying or not get out there.

critterhunter

I'll be chiming in when I have something to report. It may be a few weeks as I'm building a new body for the BP21 Stryker and am occupied with other things at the moment. However, I did come up with a great excuse to buy the 1 and 1/2" pink foam from Home Depot or Lowes (It's the only version of the foam I can find in my area...besides that fan fold stuff but it's way too thin for this plane). I hear the blue foam is the best (weighs slightly less) but the pink should work fine. Anyway, I'm picking some up this week to insulate some windows on the house. The guy at Home Depot said it works great for this...better than taping plastic over the window. Simply cut out a square to fit the window and stuff it right into the frame against the glass from inside the house. Was worried this might cause sweating problems but was told it won't. It won't look great but the windows I'll be blocking are in unused rooms anyway. Of course I will have somehow bought too much foam for the window project...and lucky enough for me I have just another use for that foam...

Fisher

Critter,

Why are you not going to use the Expanded Poly Styrene (EPS) suggested by Foamflyer? I looked at the Blue Foam and it does seem like it might be easier to work with but did not know.

critterhunter

As far as I know that pink stuff ("Owens Corning" or whoever they are.) IS the same type of foam this guy is using? Had the name of the foam written down when I went in there....Extruded Poly Whatever I wrote down. Don't confuse me before I have a chance to make a mistake. [8D] I'll check it again before I go buy. Besides the pink stuff, there is some foam at Lowes/Home Depot with silver wrap on one side and blue on the other. However, this stuff looks heavy and more brittle than the pink and I don't think it's the right type of foam. I'll read up and make sure I'm buying the right foam when I go up there. Wish I could find a store around here that carries the blue foam as it tends to sound like the premium choice.

AJ1202

Hey guys I got some new foam to try my hand with and I have all electroncs needed so here I go again, gonna try this again using the 400 size motor and aileron rudder config, Not sure if I want to try to make it for water like I originally planned but I guess I'll decide for sure once I get started. This foam is a little more dence so it's just a bit heavier but I think I'll still come in around 14oz AUW I'm going to weight everything before I start assm just incase I can't meet weight with this foam, I think I'm going to stay with the same wing because it's small and I can get better speed and agility with it. Well Ill let you know how it goes

critterhunter

Cool, keep us informed. Did you mean you are going to build the same wing that is in the plans? I would as it's killer looking and a bit short which will mean speed and agility. Are you going to stray from the plans at all or keep them stock? I just finished off my latest BP21 Stryker build and plan to take it up today. That leaves a few other projects...building this foam we are talking about at first using a BP21 brushless motor and lipos at original stock dimensions (Should be a barn burner!), building it at upscaled 480 and Sub C dimensions (can you say flying tank!), converting a challenger over to standard electronics using the BP21 motor and lipos (unlimited verticle!), and tweaking out the bugs in my Aerobird Extreme that has been converted over to standard electronics and pushrods. I'm really anxious to get the Extreme up as I have a digital Aiptek 5100M mini camcorder that I plan to do some aerials with on it. Then there is the 2.4ghz 2000mw wireless transmitter/RX that I need to strip down and hack to a plane so I can do some aerial wireless video. Hmmm...which project to start first? Sometime this winter (maybe this week) I'll be starting on the foamie and I'll post updates, pictures, and hot wire cutter info.

Fisher

Critter,

I neglected the family for half a day and got quite a bit done on the wing. I built a hot wire foam cutter with an oak 1" x 2.5", two music wire arms and some fishing leader. Powered it with a battery charger set on manual 12V 2A. Cut two templates out of 1/8" aluminum and bolted them to a base. Used some very light EPS foam and got 3 wings cut in 10 minutes. I e-mailed Foamflyer to ask for more detail on the booms vertical stabs etc... He said he might get more detail posted on his page sometime in the next few days owing to the holidays.

I chose this hotwire cutter design since it was so simple and easy to build. Everything has to be simple and easy for me to build or it will not get done. This foam I used was just what Foamflyer recommended and it is really light and not all that strong. I am assuming this design is for much more sedate flying then we have been doing with the Stryker. Nice and easy. Keep it light or it may rip apart. Adding the strapping tape spar will definitely help but I doubt this plane will take too much abuse (Speed). A little more tape should help. Maybe a couple of carbon fiber rods from an old Stryker Fuse too.

You seem much further down the power plant curve than I am. I will be looking into all electronics etc. once I get the main plane built. Probably won't get much more done until Foamflyer posts more detail.

critterhunter

Wow, you say you won't build anything complicated but that wing foam cutting device looks a bit too much for me. Can you go into more detail? I don't have any problem with the elctronics. It's building something to get the right angle down for the wing cutting. Still, a quick overview of it all would be helpful. Haven't dove into the foam cutting stuff yet as I'm just gearing up to build this plane. As for motors, you can't beat the BP21 for price and performance. You can buy it for $20 from Balsa Products. However, buy it from them as a combo deal with the BP30 amp speed control and it only comes to like $56 shipped. Not only is this little motor cheap, it's got great speed and power. Run it on a 7x6 electric prop and watch the magic. While I'm not real up to date on motor specs, I'm guessing it falls somewhere between a 480 and 540 with speed and torque. It's way faster and has more power than a 480, and it's faster than a 540 but maybe not as much torque as one. While it can be run on an 8 to 10 cell Nimh, it really needs a 3 cell lipo at around 10C to shine. Dymond Motorsports sells 2000ma 3 cell 10C lipos at only $35 a pack. The quality and wiring is good. I charge them with a Celectra lipo charger for around $45. One of these motors is going in my first foamie build and another into the Challenger. By the way, carbon rods are a good idea for the foamie. I'm going to use tubes that are thicker than the Stryker rods at about twice the dimensions. Keep us up to date. I probably will be close on your heels this week.

Fisher

Critterhunter,

The three following links are to the pages I got most all of my information from. Two of these pages describe very similar and simple hotwire bows for holding the wire tight. The basic design is simply a strong base (Piece of oak or other hard wood) and two 9" pieces of 1/4" dia. music wire (Landing gear material available at the hobby shop) that are flexed to hold the tension. Wrap your cutting wire (Nicrome, stainless, guitar string) between the two ends while they are flexed and there you have the basic cutting bow. To put heat to mine I simply attached the alligator clips from my car battery charger (one to each piece of music wire) and set it for 12V 2 amp. This worked for several different kinds of wire but not all wire. The links are far more explicit than I am being.

As for creating a template for the shape of the wing, down load Compufoil. The demo version lets you set the wing shape perameters and gives you a printable template to use for making the profile forms. You simply cut the templates out with scissors and attach to plywood, formica, aluminum etc... and cut it out. You can either pin the templates the either end of the foam block you want to cut or mount them on the ends of a base plate like I did. I am not being much more specific than last time since all this is well illustrated in the attached links. Foamflyer gives the exact specifications for the airfoil on the first view of the plane. You just have to figure out how they are entered into compufoil.

The light EPS foam (seems almost too light) is what Foamflyer was using. I took one of my new wings out and taped a makeshift fuselage to it and it flew OK just like that with no tail. Did a great loop and then fell to earth without damage. Crashed it severl times with no damage since it is so light.


http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/Con.../FoamWing.html

http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/slmohr/rcinterest2.htm

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~orman...r/hotwire.html

My progress is stalled until Foamflyer updates his web page showing more detail on the fuse and tail.

Happy Thanksgiving!

critterhunter

Thanks for the info. The new BP21 Stryker build is done. The Extreme converted to standard electronics is done...except I'm not happy with the piano wire and have to try some control rods that feature sleeves or something to function better...but that is only like an hour's work. I've got two BP21s that I have to work on (loose wire, etc) for installing in the foamie and then the other in the Challenger. In other words, after I tweak the control rods on the Extreme I'll be starting the foam build. Maybe within a week or two. Will report back.

Fisher

Critterhunter,

Foamflyer has update his easy build plane page with a side view and photo of the foam.

http://www.qnet.com/~skif/plane.html

Fisher

Critterhunter,

I have made some progress this evening. I have 4 good wings, 2 fuselages and 2 sets of tail booms complete. Now I need another piece of foam to cut the vertical and horizontal stabilizers. I also tried out my Stanley hot glue gun with dual temp glue stick on this foam. Unbelievable strength. I just stuck some scrap foam pieces together and they are stuck tight. See photos of airfoil templates and cut pieces.

Fisher

Critterhunter,

Well I put in a few hours today and now I have a complete airframe! Just ordered two BP21 brushless motors and a 15 amp speed control. They were out of 30 amp controls. Now I just have to get the electronic install done correctly and I will be ready to fly. This will probably take another 6 months until I figure it all out.

critterhunter

I apologize for only now just getting back on the computer. I've spent the last five days from sunrise to well after sunset working on my truck. Not a toy, but the real thing that I work out of. I normaly enjoy working on my own vehicles but this was a week of pure problems. I couldn't believe the kind of luck I was having. Being self employeed I had been working out of a car for the last month, not wanting to tackle the truck problems right away...until the timing belt went on the car. In other words, I'm just happy to be alive right now. What really burned me was I couldn't go out for deer shotgun season here in Ohio this week and today is the last day. Already took a buck with a crossbow but wanted to use a slug on a doe. Still go two more months of bow season to pack the freezer, though.

Back to the subject....WOW...Great job there! I'm envious that you are plowing ground well ahead of me on this project and thus I'll have to be creative to find something new on this plane to pioneer. Couple of quick questions for you...is that foam the cheap chunky stuff at the local home improvement store? I saw what I think is the foam you are working with and thought..."This can't be it, it's too flimsy and chunky looking". It'd help if you gave the exact name of this stuff and any other label specifications so I can be sure what I'm working with. I would have thought the pink Owens Corning foam at the store would be much better as it's smoother, stronger, and doesn't way all that much.

On the BP21s....Good for you on getting those. You'll love the power and speed they produce. Match'em up with a 7x6 prop...or atleast that's the best prop for it on a Stryker. Did you pick up some lipos yet? If not, try Dymond Motorsports website as they are about half the price of anybody out there. The 3 cell 10C 2000ma packs work great with the BP21 and hardly get warm after a long flight. At $35 a pack you can't go wrong. I also bought a Celectra 1 to 3 cell lipo charger and am very happy with it. From what I have read there isn't much difference between lipo chargers out there. In other words, one doesn't really get you any better of a charger on a lipo over another. Let me know how you like those BP21s! Two? You aren't planning on a dual motor version to beat me to that punch too, are you? [>:]

As money provides I'll not be starting on this project for at least another week or two. Fixing my truck took a good bit of cash out of my pocket, not to mention I haven't been working this week to bring in some more money. Oh well, Monday is a new week.

Fisher

Critterhunter,

Sorry to hear about your truck and car issues. Hope you get those resolved soon.

If you go back to Foamflyer's instruction page he has posted more detail on foam and a side view of the plane. The foam I am using is exactily what he shows on his instruction page. Insulfoam R-Tech,White Expanded Poly Styrene. 1 1/2" thick with White and blue plastic on one site and silver or blue covering on back. It seems rough if not cut with a hot wire. I will have a second air frame complete today. It was just as easy to cut out the parts for two planes as it would be for one. Total cost of foam for building 4 airframes $18.

I have not been hunting for 2 years now with the family and job and me being lazy.

Good flying.

critterhunter

Truck problems are over....for now. It's been a good vehicle, really. I bought this 2.3l Ranger with manual tranny new in 94. It now has over 260,000 miles on it and is still not burning oil. Even running on the original clutch. Body takes years to rust as most of the lower sheet metal on the Ranger is galvanized steel. The problems were mainly due to my rough use off roading a two wheel drive truck on my hunting excursions. Mainly a worn out steering and suspension that I had to overhaul. It's given me very little trouble up until this past month, which as I said was mainly my hard abuse on it. Wouldn't have put the money and time into it except for the fact that the motor and tranny is still going strong.

You have to make time to hunt. Since I'm self employeed the boss always lets me play hookey when the mood strikes. Mainly hunt deer, geese, ducks, pheasants, squirels, rabbits, and a little grouse hunting. Deer and geese are my favorite as I love deer meat and I hate the destructive nature of geese.

Back to the subject...Wow, $18 for four airframes isn't bad. The proper foam still has me confused. Don't think I saw that at the local Home Depot or Lowes. Where did you buy it? Haven't checked his webpage yet but will probably do that right now for the updates. He emailed me about it a week or two ago. Exactly how long is it taking you to build an airframe with the tool setup you've built? Thanks again for the info and keep us updated. As said, as cash allows I'll be building and chiming in here and there. That plane looks REALLY good! Great job.