jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Hey guys let me tell you my ordeal and see what you guys think, either I messed up or I am looking in the right direction,, ok here is it,, I have a full stock(no carbon fiber parts,) extra special with a ZDZ60 pitts smoke muffler, it came in ready to fly at 20 lbs on the dot, well when doing hard core 3d etc, it has some bad charateristics sometimes, by that I mean trys to tip stall in places or attitudes I think it shouldn't if that makes since,, it just acts heavy like wing loading is to high?????? in harriers it rocks badly,, just things like that ,,, my rationing is if I sold the ZDZ60 with the heavy bisson pitts muffler,,, i could buy a DA50 with the light stock muffler save weight on the engine and muffler,, and then go and buy carbon gear, wing tube, tailwheel assembly,,, I would guess that even though I might lose a little power to the ZDZ I would gain overall better flight characteristics with the DA and carbon parts,, in other words 3d better,, I would love to get the plane down from 20 pounds to about 17ish, I think that will be close if I do these mods I am speaking of,, let me know what you guys think,,,

mstroh3961

My Feedback: (4)

with a DA-50 slimline pitts, 3 Nimh packs and cf tubes and tailwheel and scrap the smoke system you should be sub 17LBS.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

hi jongurley
i hope you get the issues worked out 20 is on the high side. i would also suggest to find out on her from other owners of the same bird and see if there are any same same. some birds don't know they are heavy unless you tell them.
gerald

montanacharlie

My Feedback: (1)

jongurley
I've got a brison 3.2 powered, NX 22x8 propped, extra special with smoke that weighs in at 17 lbs. Fromeco batteries 2200 on ignition 4400 on reciever. Carbon fiber wing tube and tail wheel, kaven tires. It has 2, 20 oz. tanks. B&B smoke system. From what I understand the DA is lighter. As far as power I don't own a DA, YET! I do know that with both tanks full the Brison does have power to pull out of a hover. Its no ballistic missile by any means, but it does do it. You can definitely tell when you are flying with a tank full of smoke oil. The plane is a little more mushy feeling. I have tried to lateral balance it to get rid of the wing rock but mine still rocks a little. It is better that what it was. 17 lbs. is attainable, even with a smoke system. Going to a carbon wing tube saves you a bunch of oz. Best of luck!

Montanacharlie

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Jon

As you already know, wing loading has a tremendous impact on the way a plane flys. A plane with a lower wing loading will always fly better and more responsive that the same plane with a higher loading.

I'm thinking that the ZDZ 60 isn't all that is adding the extra weight to the plane. What else may have been added that could be removed to reduce the weight? I also have one of the 300S planes with a Brison 3.2 that comes in at 17-1/2 pounds (second release) and it flys great! There is some wing rock in Harriers but I've never takern the time or the bother to laterally balance it completely. As far as stalling is concerend, if I don't try to pull 90 degree turns at high speeds, or the same turn at too slow a speed, it's almost impossible to stall with a reasonable C/G. BTW, the difference in the all up wieght between a DA50 and a Brison 3.2 is only about 6 ounces.

Your ZDZ 60 (as the only factor) would have to weigh in somewhere around 6 pounds or more to have gained the extra weight your plane is carrying. If it does weigh that much you would be wise to sell it. I've got a 105 that weighs less than that

Regarding C/F products, the only one I would bother with would be the main wing tube. Try your C/G at 3-1/2" back fron the L/E at the tips to see if that helps some. The Extra likes that location as a good starting point. More to the front and it's more sensitive to stalls.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

i almost forget i had one of these with a brison 3.2 i think she was 18lbs that baby flew great.

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

Well when I owned that plane with that ZDZ it weighed 18lbs. so I dont know what rocks your towing around unless that new fuse weighs 2 lbs more and yes it does wing rock as quite a few others have found.

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Well I weighed it on a set of certified scales from Todd H. it weighed, ready to fly, 20 lbs' 3 OZ's,, It is hard to explain but popping up into walls, doing high speed pullouts say out of a blender it trys to tip stall more than usual, it has just alittle to high wing loading than it needs to have for full out 3d,,, so I will save alittle over a pound and ahalf on just the engine,,,have ordered carbon fiber wingtube and carbon gear, am going to switch to Lithiums, lighter tires,, I should be hitting around,,, 17 lbs,, It should make a world of difference in the stability of 3d maneuvers,, the plane has always flown great(sport flying) but as I said I know what I am talking about with the wing loading + 3d ,,,,

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

OK-- I confess. When I owned it, I poured 2 pounds of lead between the coverng and wood. Thought I would never get caught. sorry[&o]

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

AJF--2
AKA Andy you doggg

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Well it is nice to hear from Andy (SHOWTIME) F. ,,, , Hey AFJ are you still liking the DA50 as you read I liked the ZDZ awesome power but,, I am stuck on the weight thing now and I think I am going to be right in the end,, I am going to order the DA around Jan-Feb, I would go ahead now but i am going to concentrate on a NIGHT FLYER and a GEEBEE, I have been talking to Wayne Parrish about the GEEBEE,, I will pic back up with the IMAC and 3D practice in Jan-Feb,

DiscoWings

My Feedback: (76)

wingloading is just 1 factor.
If you are trying to do 3-d you should have got the LX version because of its fatter wing. Pattern plans have a snap tendency because they were designed to do clean snaps and preceision aerobatics.

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

I am not trying to do 3D,, I am doing 3D, It will Torque Roll, Harrier, Blender, Waterfall etc,, I just am not happy with the overall performance and I just think that the extra 3lbs on a 17lb airplane which equals to 20lbs is a bit to high of a load,,

rctom

I too would like to know what else is in that airplane to get it to 20 lbs.

How did you measure the weight?

Tf

DiscoWings

My Feedback: (76)

Thats a bit high... A guy I know has a WH edge with MVVS58. With stock hardware he is at 19 lbs thats including a full tank of gass and all stock hardware.

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

O.k> here is the breakdown RCTOM and everyone,,
Wildhare Extra SPecial,
WIldhare full hardware kit,
ZDZ60 with Bisson wraparound smoke pitts muffler,,(has to weigh at least a pound and half more than a DA50,, but I have sold the ZDZ, so I will be purchasing a DA50 with stock muff..)
5945 Hitecs all around, except rudder which is JR8611,
1 1100mah Nimh 4.8v(ignition), 2 1050 mah 1/2A Nimh 6volt flight packs,
All stock gear, wingtube, tailwheel etc,,,,
Dave Brown 3 1/2" aluminum spinner,,
thats about it,, what do you guys think,,,

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

well with what you have left whats the weight?

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Oh, and I forgot to add to my list that AJF-2 was a previous owner,, that might put it over the top,,

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

I think it flew great-- sounds like the pilot to me.

BTW Gerald, Everybody knows that Krayzc has those "rigged" scales. You ain't foolin nobody here, boss.

John, I just don't know why you can't be happy with a plane!!!! Quit trying to find the perfect aircraft---BE SATISIFIED WITH WHAT YOU GOT!!!! you know-- like me!

rctom

I'm confused. The highest reading I see on the scale is 12 1/2 pounds. If that's the complete plane without the engine, you're looking at about 17 pounds with a da 50, prop and spinner, maybe 17 1/2. I'm not seeing 20 pounds.

TF

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

Im betting its still gonna wing rock even with a DA, Tom redesigned the wings and you have the old ones, it used to float from one end of the runway to the other and I couldnt get it to land even at walking speed.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

tom that was my set up before i install a brison 3.2.

20 flights later my flying buddy just had to have my plane. it was a good thing because it flew so well i was doing all of my stuff very low. i remember telling him as i went by in knife edge about 5 feet off the ground was the bottom wing tip i am going to end of tearing this plane up and he replyed sell it to me before you do. That was my last flight...

The bird was 18 lbs on the dot. u know i had to bring in the old heavy G. I. Joe

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

RCTOM,, that is not my plane that is Krazy's,,, as I stated with my setup as I stated I weighed it on a set of 478 dollar "federal certified" scales and it came out at 20 lb 3oz's,,,,, what do you think,,, and in regards to the wingrocking,,, the wingrocking is not what I am talking about,, it is the tipstalls, or high speed stalls,, I think that the wing loading is contributing to greater tendencies of these,, the only time it wingrocks is in harriers, and I have taken care of that with 20% spoilerons' and rudder,,,

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

jongurley
your scale should be better than my old old one that works to give a good estimate tip stalls? on landing or 3d?

Is your tail bolted on or glued?
when putting the plane together did you have to run to Andy's Hobby Corner to get more than one or two boxes of 6/30 minute exopy?
Did you put larger wheel on the landing gear?
Did you buy longer harder grade bolts to put the bird together?
Did you use heavy gauge 20 or lower wire to put the electronis in the bird?
Is the bird laterly balanced?
Did you add much/any extra wood to install switches/battery?
Did you glass the plane anywere?

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

No,No,No,No,Yes it is laterally balanced,,No,NO,,