talbert

My Feedback: (7)

So I'm a pilot getting in to gas and I'm pretty overwhelmed at the amount of choices out there. When I flew glow the choice was always obvious to me. 2 Stroke (OS FX series) 4 Stroke (Saito). Now I'm looking at gas and I'm getting a headache digging through all the various threads here and manufactuer web sites trying to find out who's who. I've seen so far:

Sachs
FPE
FAX
OS
Zenoah
Brison
Fuji
Evolution
US Engines
ZDZ
DA
...

The list goes on. Could some vets out there come in and just help me figure my gas "equivalent" judging by my glow taste mentioned above? I'm looking for ultra reliable, solid power, at an affordable price. I don't want average, I want great but it doesn't have the be "the best". Really hhave no idea how the "Tiers" of gas engines rank.

JEFFRO503

My Feedback: (9)

hey Talbert........you didn't specify exactly what size engine you we're looking for. Is it in the 50cc , 75-85cc , 100cc or 150cc and bigger? I am in the middle of building a 35% sukoi as my first gasser. My decision led me into using a BME 115. As far as the 100cc size..it was the best choice for myself. BUT i know the DA 100 , 3W 106 and possibly a few other would of been a great choice also. those motor's have been proven and alot of guys run them and love them.


since it's your first gasser.......i'm going to take a wild shot in the dark and guess your looking for a 50cc size. In taht case , i did a bunch of research when i was wanting to build a plane this size also. I would seriously consider looking at a TAURUS T-52. I have seen them run and it's very powerfull and run like a swiss watch. I know the DA 50 is really popular , but if i had my choice , that's the 50cc motor i would of went with. I have seen the taurus and DA's run quite a few times......and my decision would still be taurus. ALSO.....take a look at the 3W 55 and the BME 50. There is supposed to be a BME 58cc coming out one of these days......and i can almost say , it will be a power house if it's anything like the BME 115 which i have.

good luck buddy.......and whatever your decision , i'm sure you'll be happy........all of those motor's i mentioned have been proven...it just comes down to your preferrance.


jeff

talbert

My Feedback: (7)

Thanks Jeff..

You can see why it's easy to be overwhelmed. You mentioned more gas engines making the list of potentials to be even greater! I do appreciate the input. I should have specified the plane.

My first gasser is going to be the GP Christen Eagle which calls for a 2.0-3.2 cu in (32-52cc) gasoline engine as one of the options. I really wanted to go gas but I'm intimidated by the choices and the switch over (I know nothing about gas).

JEFFRO503

My Feedback: (9)

yeah sorry about making your decision even harder hehe. But maybe i can ease your mind a little with the decision to go to gas? I myself was in the same boat as you , not more than a few months ago. I love my glow engines , but i still suffered from the occasinal deadstick landings due to numerous "little things" every once in a while. Now.......i haven't flown a gasser of my OWN yet ( hence me building my first one) but i have flown a couple and have seen many , many gas engines run. and i can tell you , that if that motor is tuned correctly ( i beleive they are more easy than a glow engine) , they will never deadstick on you. Some of these guys are getting 300-400 flight's on a motor , and not one deadstick. Besides all of this.......check this out....at $25.00 a gallon for glow fuel and about $3.00 a gallon for gas is actually waaaay cheaper right? Well..here is something to ponder......My little saito 150 ( which i love) will empty my 16oz tank on my funtana 100X within a good hard running 7-1/2 minute 3D flight. That's about 2 oz per minute. My room mates 33% SD yak which is running a 3W 80-CS gas engine , is getting 15 minute flight's using a 32oz tank......and he's only burning about 1/3 the tank!! that's about 10-11 oz per flight and alot less than an oz per minute. It's strange but my little saito drinks about 2-3 times more fuel than a friggin' 80cc motor.......that's crazy!! Add all that cost up and within a year......you've already saved enough to pay for a gas motor...hehehe. One more thing also to look at is longivity........i beleive keith at BME told me , my motor was warrented for 2500 flight hours or 3 years ( could be two years) The gas motor's are Lifelong motr's and considered an investment. I could own that motor for 20 years and not get 2500 flight hours! try getting that out of a glow motor......and better yet.......look at the thousands upon thousands of dollars you'll save on fuel.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Well I will throw one more option your way because of awesome customer support and just great engines in general. www.brillelli.com

I would say the 46 or 50 will be your best choices for that plane. I might lean towards the 50 just because when you move on your 50 would open up more options as far as what planes you can fly with it. 46 is a great engine as well.. have 1 and have owned 2... however the 50 is going to fly up to a 18 pound nps where as the 46 would be somewhat lacking.. would fly but not really 3D.

There is always a fine line when it comes to putting too much engine on a plane and having an engine that will be useful as you move up in size. You want a nice balance between power and weight.

I would immediately remove Fuji and US engines off of your list. Heavy and don't produce as much power as the competition.

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

talbert

I know exactly what your going through. I went through the same thing a little over a year ago. This was the way that I looked at the whole gasser issue. I could have spent a lot of money on a brand name engine with a lot of hp or I could buy something that wouldn't break the bank and still have more than enough hp for the way I fly. You can spend a lot of money on DA, ZDZ, BME, etc. or you can spend half of what one of those cost and only be loosing less than 900 rpm. Now don't get me wrong, All the engines I mentioned are great running engines but I opted for something a lot cheaper that is still reliable with good hp. I fly [link=http://www.scottellingson.com/]Brillelli[/link] engines and [link=http://www.tompierce.net/190/html/building/RCign.htm]Zenoah[/link] engines. Very good hp, reliable, easy on the wallet, and all on Electronic Ignition. If money doesn't matter then go for the high end engines but if your like me and money doesn't grow on trees you'll do a little shopping and price comparing. Good luck on your choice.

altavillan

My Feedback: (1)

Get the lightest you can afford. Or you will be buying a light one the next time. Then do you want rear mounted carb or side mount. look for a 50cc engine that is less than 3#. It will be more important if you put a can on it. If you get an engine over 3# get one as powerful as you can get. Manufacturers hp claims are not reliable. For ease of starting get a reed or port timed engine with reed being slightly better. If something happens to your CE, the 50cc engine will fit all the 80 to 90" planes. If I was out to buy a new engine I would get a BME, DA, or Taurus.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

The Poulan 46cc (Brillelli 46cc) is a good engine on either magneto or EI. Occasionally, one gets out that is less than stellar. This happens to everyone that makes/converts engines. It is how the dealer backs up his products that makes the difference. Brillelli has been stellar. As has RC Ignitions and BCMAE, BME, RC Showcase and Brison.

There are lots of folks that have no intention of flying 3D with their gasser. These folks do not need to waste their money by buying the latest/greatest/TOC/IMAC engine for their ARF sport models.

For my sport models, I use Ralph Cunningham's "Lite" series G62 and G26 engines. I have a few 3D ARFs and have ordered a DL50 for those. So far, the reports on the DL50 have been positive by a fair majority. I feel for Desert Aircraft in their agony of competing with DLL. This appears to be the way of the future. One can lament, or one can adapt. I chose the latter.


Ed

BaldEagel

Talbert

It all comes down to what you want to do with the engine and if you mind a very messy instalation with the carb sticking out one side and the exhast sticking out the bottom ( if you used a pitts style silencer) all two strokes benifit from a free flowing exhast, look at any racing two stroke, a decent cannister not neccesary a tuned exhast will increase power whilst also being less noisy, thats all asthetics, in real terms look at what others in your area are using, look to see how easy any engine you decide on is going to be serviced in your area i.e do you have a local supplier who can help you set up and tune if you get into difficulty, or someone at your field who knows how too, than take it from there. In your list you forgott MVVS, Evolution is a badged version.

Mike

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

I think Babbert hit the nail on the head. Not everyone wants to fly 3D with their plane so there is no need for an engine less than 3lbs or a tuned pipe although they are very nice but not needed to start out. Talbert said "I'm looking for ultra reliable, solid power, at an affordable price." So there is no need for all the good toys at this point of the game. I fly my WH Extra 300LX with a G62/EI and a Slimline wrap around rear dump muffler and there is plenty of power to spare and it keeps the cost down. This is just my own evaluation as others have theirs. Your first gasser is the best .

altavillan

My Feedback: (1)

Last few posts have suggested less than the best by their own admission. Why would you want less than the best? A top of the line engine can fly the right circle pattern with the other lesser engines, they just don't fall out of the sky as fast.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Wow... Zippi I wouldn't say this post is accurate 900 rpms difference? The 46 really doesn't have anything to be compared to since there isn't much out there in this size range besides the Evolution 45 which is double the price and really doesn't wake up till it's on a pipe. The 46 turns a 20x8 prop at 7400-7600 all day long and a 21x8 Zoar at 7000. Nothing wrong with that at all.

The 50... well it's no joke either... 22x8 at 7200 out of the box.. hello DA 50. It's very similar to the BME 50 with some slight changes and that engine had a very good following.. I think the Brillelli 50 has a bit more work done to it and since it's coming out since some new tricks have been learned it pulls very well. It will def. keep up with a DA 50 and for $495 with muffler and everything it certianly makes you think twice about spending more for something that may be more powerful.

As for the 60 well it turns at 23x8 Zoar at 7000 all day long and has one of the nicest low idles around with a silky smooth transition. At the same price as a bare DA you can get the 366GT with standoffs and muffler, and have an engine that walks all over a DA in power, price, and smoothness and only weights 6 oz more.


altavillan: I know of several DA lovers who have made the switch and aren't looking back.. there is nothing subpar here..

For any doubters here is a video done a couple of weeks ago with a brand new 60 with maybe 1/2 a gallon through it. This is a copy without music so you can hear the engine completely.. you can hear it's just a hair rich but that's it... that's almost 17 pounds hovering at a click or two below 1/4 throttle

http://www.djsinergy.com/planes/cap/WH_CAP051207_NM.wmv
http://www.djsinergy.com/planes/cap/WH_CAP051207_NM.wmv

altavillan

My Feedback: (1)

The DA was mentioned for the rear carb and reed valve properties not because I think it's best. However it is the best "slim" engine I know of.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

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Less than the most expensive is quite different from less than the best. Much of what gains folks high prices for their products is status. Quite often, high status products perform no better than low status products.

If one is flying a gasser biplane that needs lots of nose weight, a Homelite 25cc engine could be the perfect engine for that model. My Homelites have never been finicky, problematic or expensive. A high dollar, ultra light weight engine would/could not have ran any more reliably than my lowly Homelite 25cc gasser, however, using the expensive light weight engine would have required the addition of a LOT of nose weight. The Homelite did not.

I think some folks are being silly by spending huge amounts of money just to putt around the sky. But, it is their money.

Ed

oldtimer2

My Feedback: (19)

Hi, Check out BME's new 50cc. Go to New 50cc engine post further down this page. It is supposted to be competive with many like engines at less cost.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Well the only reason I compared against that is because it's one the strongest 50s out there.

But my main reason was to disspell any thought that these engines are lesser quality than the competition because that couldn't be further from the truth.

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Well considering it's not even out yet that isn't much use. Keith has already stated it won't be the strongest 50 out there... but it will be the lightest. It will be nice to see it come out... but just like any other new engine gonna wanna see some run time on it via the masses to see how it works out after some time on it.

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

sinergy,

I was in no way putting down a Brillelli engine. Hell man, that's what I'm running . I just wanted to cover all bases with some of the SPE 40's that are being sold on Ebay. They are a little under power until they are sent to Scot for a wake up call.

captinjohn

Do not over look the Taurs.....super smooth. Capt,n

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

hehe Zippi.. I know I just wanted to give some examples of how strong the Brillelli's really are and wanted to make sure that 900 rpms less didn't read like it was directed at Brillelli. More so a little clarification than anything.

Have to agree with captin.. had a taurus 52 and it was nice as well.

Scott Ellingson

My Feedback: (146)

I personally have flown that plane with a Moki 2.10, Brillelli 46, and Brillelli 60. That plane is not built strone enough for anything larger than a 46, Zenoah G45 or somthing like that. It flies very well with that size engine and will also ballance fine with a magneto engine if desired. It is a great plane for a first gasser. Just do not overkill on it or the plane will not hold up. Even a smooth Taurus will be too much power for the plane to last long. GO with somthing in the 2.4-2.8 range and you will be happy. A Brison 2.4 would be another good choice. I have seen one fly with a G38. Not a powerhouse, but it still flew very well.

BaldEagel

Someone mentioned that an MVVS 45 need a pipe, this is not the case, it needs a cannister exhaust different thing, also don't take any notice of the comment hovers one click below 1/4 throttle, it all accords on the throttle geometory and how it is set up, most petrol engines throttles don't have any effect over the last 1/3 of movement that is why most use a throttle curve to get the respone linier, IMO the correct way to set up the throttle is to tach top revs, tach tick over and then set the throttle so that at half stick you get half the difference between the two tach readings, this is not difficult mechanically or on the Tx programming. Mechanically just put the servo arm in line with the throttle push rod this way you get small movement at the begining of the servo movment up the arc, with an increase in movement accros the top of the arc as the stick gets nearer the WOT position, its the first third of throttle movement that has the most effect.

My first petrol engine was an MVVS 45 in my opinion the easiest to operate engine in my stable, light and very powerful, but a Young cat (wont let me put p**sy on RCU) at low revs, starts easily, and it hovers a 17Lb plane, what more could you ask.

Mike

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

Well a cannister exhuast is still an added expense and added weight. So now you have added 8-12 oz. to that light engine and a bunch of money.

They are good engines... don't get me wrong, but you are def. paying for it.

As for my 1/4 throttle... I am one of those who setup proper geomatory and get my end points to be as close to or more than 100% as possible. This results in full throttle movement.. not something that is at full throttle for the entire last 1/4 of the stick.

Consideirng the rpm numbers on a 23x8 prop with the stock exhust it comes with and the price it's a no brainer for me at least.

karolh

It is quite possible with all the sidetracking going on you are now well and truly overwhelmed. That was some very good advice from Scott at Brillelli Motors. He is a real straight shooter and if he says that a 46 is the max size engine you should consider for that particular model, believe him.

All brand of engines mentioned here are worth considering, just pick the right size for the model you have in mind and also for your pocket, then enjoy.

Karol

BaldEagel

7000rpm at WOT so with a linier throttle, lets say 1800rpm at tick over thats 5200rpm difference so 1/4 of that is 1300rpm you are hovering your 17Lb bird at 3100rpm its possible I suppose, anyone know how to do the thrust calculation?

Mike