100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
12-28-2008, 03:05 PM
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RE: 100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
Wow. Based on that diameter, I am thinking that would be more like 130 lbs thrust. Any idea how soon this will be available? Any other specs? My guess is this is going to be a $10,000-$13,000 ticket item.
12-28-2008, 04:16 PM
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RE: 100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
AMT Netherlands has the Titan UAV turbine.
There website says it has 392 N thrust.
Look at www.amtjets.com
cheers
There website says it has 392 N thrust.
Look at www.amtjets.com
cheers
12-28-2008, 05:02 PM
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RE: 100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
Birdtrick,
I was just having a little fun with you guys.
You missed the thrust figure by a few pounds though, as the turbine wheel pictured is actually from an engine that produces 1008 lbs of thrust.
It is from a Teledyne Continental 373-8C turbojet used in the Teledyne Ryan (now Northrop Grumman Integrated Systems) Model 324 photo recon UAV, developed by TRA for and used by the Egyptian Air Force at Kom Aushim AFB, about 50 km south of Cairo, Egypt.
We have 50 air vehicles remaining out of the original 56 ships. The first flight occured in March of 1987, and it has been in service wiht the EAF since October of 1988.
I spent the last six years of my career on this program, retiring in 2005.
Here's a couple of launch photos.
I don't recall the booster motor's thrust number, but the modified "Harpoon" booster burns for 4.5 seconds, and by that time, the 324 is going approx. 450 MPH.
After the mission, a parachute system is used to recover the aircraft so that it may be retrieved and rehabilitated for future missions. It uses a 76.4 foot diameter triconical main parachute.
I was just having a little fun with you guys.
You missed the thrust figure by a few pounds though, as the turbine wheel pictured is actually from an engine that produces 1008 lbs of thrust.
It is from a Teledyne Continental 373-8C turbojet used in the Teledyne Ryan (now Northrop Grumman Integrated Systems) Model 324 photo recon UAV, developed by TRA for and used by the Egyptian Air Force at Kom Aushim AFB, about 50 km south of Cairo, Egypt.
We have 50 air vehicles remaining out of the original 56 ships. The first flight occured in March of 1987, and it has been in service wiht the EAF since October of 1988.
I spent the last six years of my career on this program, retiring in 2005.
Here's a couple of launch photos.
I don't recall the booster motor's thrust number, but the modified "Harpoon" booster burns for 4.5 seconds, and by that time, the 324 is going approx. 450 MPH.
After the mission, a parachute system is used to recover the aircraft so that it may be retrieved and rehabilitated for future missions. It uses a 76.4 foot diameter triconical main parachute.
12-28-2008, 11:26 PM
#9
RE: 100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
I thought JetCat was supposed to show both 75lb and 100lb thrust engines for UAV's at a UAV symposium back in 2007(?). Don't know if they did or if anything came of it. Something about replacing two P-200's on an existing UAV with a single engine.
As said before, they're not AMA legal, if that matters to you.
As said before, they're not AMA legal, if that matters to you.
12-29-2008, 10:24 AM
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RE: 100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
Patrick,
Negative. Only the color is the same. Shade 35450 per Fed Std 595b.
It was designed on a clean sheet to satisfy an Egyptian recon requirement. Since it is operated by Egypt, it is a relatively obscure UAV that doesn't get much press.
Earlier, we (Teledyne Ryan) had sold Israel a different system, the 124I recon UAV, that they used in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Obviously, the EAF became interested in aireal recon at that time.
We weren't trying to sell the EAF something they had never heard of before, but they insisted on their own airframe....read between the lines....and one that they could build themselves under license. It proved to be too complicated for them to develop an industry on, so we ended up building the whole system for them. Better for us.
The entire airframe is composite, consisting of Kevlar, carbon, glass and foam. It was just to cutting edge at the time, being very stealthy and too complex for the Egyptians to start an RPV industry on. We built a facility at Mojave, right next to Scaled Composites...the Rutans became paid consultants, and assisted us with some the fabrication early in the contract. The Rutan contribution was very valuable. We know how prolific they are.
This contract was non-US military, so it was not subject to the same DCAS oversight as our other contracts were.
It was rather unique, as it was the first complete RPV project we have supplied any customer. "System" being the operative word.
We were the prime contractor/designer including the airframe, payload integration, ground control station, truck to move it around with, the trailer from which to launch it, the launcher, the booster system, and the command and control system. All of the components were briought together in a complete self contained turn-key system, plus all the ground control equipment necessary to do it, right down to the hand tools, cans of oil, rags, manuals....everything you need to maintain and operate this unmanned vehicle was delivered to the Egyptians.
After the last delivery in 1993 the contract switched to a services and support contract. We still have a "tech rep" (Sherman Linen, a good and longtime friend of over fourty years) in country for factory support, and we still provide all spares support and factory assistance. We have a complete airframe and a sytems test console in our systems integration lab used for test and troubleshooting, and systems upgrade integration. We also have a flight simulator that is used to train current and future RCO's and LCO's.
I spent 45 days total in country installing and testing navigation systems updates in 2000 and 2001.
Of the total delivery of 56 airframes, 50 ships and all six launch recovery vehicles are still in service since the first flight, spanning twenty one years eleven months .
Negative. Only the color is the same. Shade 35450 per Fed Std 595b.
It was designed on a clean sheet to satisfy an Egyptian recon requirement. Since it is operated by Egypt, it is a relatively obscure UAV that doesn't get much press.
Earlier, we (Teledyne Ryan) had sold Israel a different system, the 124I recon UAV, that they used in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Obviously, the EAF became interested in aireal recon at that time.
We weren't trying to sell the EAF something they had never heard of before, but they insisted on their own airframe....read between the lines....and one that they could build themselves under license. It proved to be too complicated for them to develop an industry on, so we ended up building the whole system for them. Better for us.
The entire airframe is composite, consisting of Kevlar, carbon, glass and foam. It was just to cutting edge at the time, being very stealthy and too complex for the Egyptians to start an RPV industry on. We built a facility at Mojave, right next to Scaled Composites...the Rutans became paid consultants, and assisted us with some the fabrication early in the contract. The Rutan contribution was very valuable. We know how prolific they are.
This contract was non-US military, so it was not subject to the same DCAS oversight as our other contracts were.
It was rather unique, as it was the first complete RPV project we have supplied any customer. "System" being the operative word.
We were the prime contractor/designer including the airframe, payload integration, ground control station, truck to move it around with, the trailer from which to launch it, the launcher, the booster system, and the command and control system. All of the components were briought together in a complete self contained turn-key system, plus all the ground control equipment necessary to do it, right down to the hand tools, cans of oil, rags, manuals....everything you need to maintain and operate this unmanned vehicle was delivered to the Egyptians.
After the last delivery in 1993 the contract switched to a services and support contract. We still have a "tech rep" (Sherman Linen, a good and longtime friend of over fourty years) in country for factory support, and we still provide all spares support and factory assistance. We have a complete airframe and a sytems test console in our systems integration lab used for test and troubleshooting, and systems upgrade integration. We also have a flight simulator that is used to train current and future RCO's and LCO's.
I spent 45 days total in country installing and testing navigation systems updates in 2000 and 2001.
Of the total delivery of 56 airframes, 50 ships and all six launch recovery vehicles are still in service since the first flight, spanning twenty one years eleven months .
12-29-2008, 01:06 PM
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RE: 100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
Yes, this is a non-RC project. Unfortunately I cannot disclose exactly what at the moment. But it is a very interesting point brought up about not being AMA legal. Will this put a cap on how big of a motor the manufacturers will ever produce? Or are there enough non-RC applications finding use for these turbines that they will continue to grow in thrust production? I have heard rumours of a couple of 125+ lb thrust engines being developed by the different manufacturers, but as I am not involved in the RC community I have no way of assessing the validity of these statements.
That brings me to another question that somebody here could certainly answer to some degree of accuracy. If a 125 lb thrust engine were developed, about how much would it weigh and what would the diameter be? And cost? In researching turbines out there at the moment, there seems to be a direct correlation on all of the numbers: 50 lbs thrust=5 lbs=$5000. So I would deduce 125 lbs thrust=10-12 lbs=$10-$12k. It seems engine diameters don't follow this, and so a 6-7 in. diameter would be about right. I could also see the cost being more like $18-$20k since there wouldn't be as much of a demand for this size.
That brings me to another question that somebody here could certainly answer to some degree of accuracy. If a 125 lb thrust engine were developed, about how much would it weigh and what would the diameter be? And cost? In researching turbines out there at the moment, there seems to be a direct correlation on all of the numbers: 50 lbs thrust=5 lbs=$5000. So I would deduce 125 lbs thrust=10-12 lbs=$10-$12k. It seems engine diameters don't follow this, and so a 6-7 in. diameter would be about right. I could also see the cost being more like $18-$20k since there wouldn't be as much of a demand for this size.
12-29-2008, 01:20 PM
#16
RE: 100+ Lbs Thrust Turbine?
You are in the right ball park, it would be best to get with the engine manufacturers at this point. These guys have an 80 lb off the shelf solution:
http://www.swbturbines.com/products/swb%20-%2080.htm
http://www.swbturbines.com/products/swb%20-%2080.htm
