Tamiya Joseph Stalin 2 build
01-16-2014, 08:04 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Tamiya Joseph Stalin 2 build
I decided to start a separate thread with this title after I got 3 emails from fellow tankers saying they had missed the original thread because of the name. This should clarify that little problem.
To start. I received the second half of my long awaited Tamiya JS 2 not long ago.
First trick was to check and make sure all the parts where now in the ETO Tank Fabrik hidden away on the north side of the ditch and away from prying eyes. Joey did his usual excellent job and all was complete.
First order of business was to clean the aluminum lower hull and sand it lightly with 320 grit, then paint it the usual primer red. Next was to paint and install the road wheel arm bosses and the idler arms. All fit like a glove, not the slightest filing or fitting needed, just install the parts. I did use blue loctite on the bosses as they will be taken off after the build.
I then installed the road wheel arm bump stops after installing the tiny bolt top on the stops. They are held on with socket head screws by bolting through the lower hull sides. Anyone who has installed screws in to plastic knows the fun of using an allen wrench in a close space. Since I've been down this road before I opted to use an allen head adapter on my antique 1/4 inch drive ratchet. Quick and simple, just be sure not to tighten them too much and strip out the plastic.
Next trick was the lower hull front plate. It is nicely textured and simply bolts in, but one needs to first glue on the tow cable hooks and spring loaded retainers. The castings are well shaped and formed. Gone are the days of mismatched mold halves where you had to sand and fill for two days to get small parts reasonably correct. These parts just needed a gently touch with 480 to smooth off the casting sprue divot and all was good. After gluing them on I then put the very heavy and crude Sov weld beads on them. Not pretty but prototypical.
To start. I received the second half of my long awaited Tamiya JS 2 not long ago.
First trick was to check and make sure all the parts where now in the ETO Tank Fabrik hidden away on the north side of the ditch and away from prying eyes. Joey did his usual excellent job and all was complete.
First order of business was to clean the aluminum lower hull and sand it lightly with 320 grit, then paint it the usual primer red. Next was to paint and install the road wheel arm bosses and the idler arms. All fit like a glove, not the slightest filing or fitting needed, just install the parts. I did use blue loctite on the bosses as they will be taken off after the build.
I then installed the road wheel arm bump stops after installing the tiny bolt top on the stops. They are held on with socket head screws by bolting through the lower hull sides. Anyone who has installed screws in to plastic knows the fun of using an allen wrench in a close space. Since I've been down this road before I opted to use an allen head adapter on my antique 1/4 inch drive ratchet. Quick and simple, just be sure not to tighten them too much and strip out the plastic.
Next trick was the lower hull front plate. It is nicely textured and simply bolts in, but one needs to first glue on the tow cable hooks and spring loaded retainers. The castings are well shaped and formed. Gone are the days of mismatched mold halves where you had to sand and fill for two days to get small parts reasonably correct. These parts just needed a gently touch with 480 to smooth off the casting sprue divot and all was good. After gluing them on I then put the very heavy and crude Sov weld beads on them. Not pretty but prototypical.
01-16-2014, 08:07 AM
#2
Thread Starter
Tamiya Joseph Stalin 2 build
Making substantial progress on the prime movers for the IS. Spent the last couple days rummaging around and then made the decision. Since the add on ZUH 19 gear downs will not fit in the IS I decided to use Impact transmissions. However, experience has shown that Impact gears don't like this environment too well, they tend to eat gears even more than usual, plus the added disadvantage of the Impact iron gears running on the gear shafts have no bushings in them, just raw iron rubbing on raw iron. I already knew that Tamiya gears are a virtual bolt in for the Impact trans frame, so I went with that system. I also put 4x7 sealed bearings in every gear I could. The only Impact gear in the transmission is the gear down gear at the very top, #1 in the train. He got 2 bearings in each, as did the following two gears. Most the others have two bearings also, just a couple there just wasn't enough meat left after boring the 6.95 mm hole for the bearing.
At any rate, the difference in just the feel of the transmissions is astounding, I'm talking greased lightening. A little judicious shimming and aligning is needed here and there in the job but nothing difficult at all. Since the Tamiya gears run on hard steel shafts that are precut for snap rings and the shafts rest in a cradle arrangement in the transmission frame I had no choice but to install the Tamiya gear covers also. This installation was needed to keep the gear shafts in place.
The interior width of the Impact trans frame is roughly the same as Tamiya but one must carefully align the Impact frame sides to make sure they are at a perfect 90 degrees from the base. Also one must do the same with the motor and gear mount at the rear inside. Neither of these was anywhere near straight when I started, but they are now. I also shimmed and aligned all the gears as needed to make sure all were in proper contact with each other.
Motors will not be the stock one shown, that's just for assembly purposes. Long cans, by the by, will not fit so it's short cans for sure.
At any rate, the difference in just the feel of the transmissions is astounding, I'm talking greased lightening. A little judicious shimming and aligning is needed here and there in the job but nothing difficult at all. Since the Tamiya gears run on hard steel shafts that are precut for snap rings and the shafts rest in a cradle arrangement in the transmission frame I had no choice but to install the Tamiya gear covers also. This installation was needed to keep the gear shafts in place.
The interior width of the Impact trans frame is roughly the same as Tamiya but one must carefully align the Impact frame sides to make sure they are at a perfect 90 degrees from the base. Also one must do the same with the motor and gear mount at the rear inside. Neither of these was anywhere near straight when I started, but they are now. I also shimmed and aligned all the gears as needed to make sure all were in proper contact with each other.
Motors will not be the stock one shown, that's just for assembly purposes. Long cans, by the by, will not fit so it's short cans for sure.
01-16-2014, 08:13 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Tamiya Joseph Stalin 2 build
Did a bunch of welds on the IS the last couple days. The welds are unbelievably crude on the prototype so I made these the same. They will get scuffed down a little before the second coat of paint. Since I've had a hands on for our local IS I spaced the welds correctly. Also installed the rear deck screens and the tow cable shackle brackets, all three of PE with the kit. I then put Mr. Surfacer 500 on the rear hull side plates and engine hatch to simulate the real thing. The rear hull plate will get the same treatment after I finish filling the two tow cable holes in the plate. Don't know yet what I'll do with the tow cables but you can bet they won't be rubber as comes with the kit.
Also bored the turret race drain holes, two each side. These holes will be roughed up pretty good as the prototype had the holes drilled with an acetylene drill.
I also did some work with the upper hull to lower hull attachments. I didn't like the idea of unscrewing two large hinges on the rear plate to gain access to the innards, that would scuff off the paint in no time. I simply installed two socket head screws in the hull cross brace and installed rare earth magnets in each hinge. So far so good, the upper hull seems to stay in place and the magnets seem to be strong enough to work.
As an aside, gentlemen, when assembling the IS 2, there are some tiny detail parts that get glued to the hull and turret. Each sprue has the type of plastic it is molded from on the back of the sprue letter plate. Some is ABS, some of course styrene. Needless to say the only way to attack the ABS detail parts to styrene is with ACC adhesive. I use the gel type ACC as it gives you a moment or three to position the part correctly if you are like me and getting old with the resultant deteriorating eyes and wobbly hands from time to time. ABS parts also take a different adhesive than styrene so for instance the wheels and support rollers will need ABS adhesive, not styrene adhesive.
Also, the lift rings for the rear deck and rear hull plate (which are ABS, hence the comment about ACC) are shown in the instructions as being at the wrong angle from the IS 2 I'm using as a guide. On the prototype IS 2's I've looked at the rings are 90 degrees different from the instructions. IS 2 that is my guide is this one.
http://www.tigerscorner.ru/index.php?topic=792.0
Also bored the turret race drain holes, two each side. These holes will be roughed up pretty good as the prototype had the holes drilled with an acetylene drill.
I also did some work with the upper hull to lower hull attachments. I didn't like the idea of unscrewing two large hinges on the rear plate to gain access to the innards, that would scuff off the paint in no time. I simply installed two socket head screws in the hull cross brace and installed rare earth magnets in each hinge. So far so good, the upper hull seems to stay in place and the magnets seem to be strong enough to work.
As an aside, gentlemen, when assembling the IS 2, there are some tiny detail parts that get glued to the hull and turret. Each sprue has the type of plastic it is molded from on the back of the sprue letter plate. Some is ABS, some of course styrene. Needless to say the only way to attack the ABS detail parts to styrene is with ACC adhesive. I use the gel type ACC as it gives you a moment or three to position the part correctly if you are like me and getting old with the resultant deteriorating eyes and wobbly hands from time to time. ABS parts also take a different adhesive than styrene so for instance the wheels and support rollers will need ABS adhesive, not styrene adhesive.
Also, the lift rings for the rear deck and rear hull plate (which are ABS, hence the comment about ACC) are shown in the instructions as being at the wrong angle from the IS 2 I'm using as a guide. On the prototype IS 2's I've looked at the rings are 90 degrees different from the instructions. IS 2 that is my guide is this one.
http://www.tigerscorner.ru/index.php?topic=792.0
01-16-2014, 08:54 AM
#4
Watching with interest as I have this kit inbound right now.
Nice work so far, looking forward to more. Your other thread with photos of the real thing is also a lot of help. My guess is I'll be spending quite a bit of time making things a lot uglier than the kit, including the grab bars and headlight guard.
Nice work so far, looking forward to more. Your other thread with photos of the real thing is also a lot of help. My guess is I'll be spending quite a bit of time making things a lot uglier than the kit, including the grab bars and headlight guard.
01-16-2014, 10:00 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Ausf, he's going to get really uglified during the build. Our local IS 2 is REALLY rough, mid '44 production.
Rex, all I do is put a tube on the end of the filler tube and have at it. However, tomorrow or Saturday I will do an experiment with a slightly different method. If it's successful I'll explain it in the thread.
Rex, all I do is put a tube on the end of the filler tube and have at it. However, tomorrow or Saturday I will do an experiment with a slightly different method. If it's successful I'll explain it in the thread.
01-21-2014, 01:46 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Tamiya Joseph Stalin 2 build
Got the wheels and return rollers bored out for bearings and assembled. I will use a flanged bearing on the outer wheel and a flangless on the the inner wheel. The return roller will get two flangless bearings each. Idlers are the same as the road wheels, ergo the same bearing treatment. Also got the first coat of paint on the upper hull and the metal lower hull. Today I'll knock down the welds some and tomorrow it's paint day for the wheels and upper hull. I also scuffed up the actual track contact surface of the wheels and rollers and then taped that area off for painting. Since the wheels and rollers are ABS I will find an epoxy type paint of steel color to paint the actual contact surfaces. If that don't work and the paint comes off in spite of the scuffing to give the paint something to adhere to, well, there may be a fix for that. We'll see.
Now, a little something I found that I don't like too much. The road wheel axles are the same as the return wheel axles. All well and fine. However, even with the stock bushings in place the road wheel axles are just barely long enough to clear the set screw. The bearings sit just a micron lower than the outer bushing, but still the axle is too short in my opinion, bearing in mind that the mud and soil here is legendary. So, in to the parts bin I went and dug out all those short gear axles I took out of the Lord knows how many Type 1's I modified. Had more then enough to replace all the road wheel and idler wheel axles and they are just long enough to come a tad out of the suspension arm. Haven't tried them for hull clearance, but if they are a bit too long it'll be a simple task to nip off the end right at the original lock ring cut.
Now, a little something I found that I don't like too much. The road wheel axles are the same as the return wheel axles. All well and fine. However, even with the stock bushings in place the road wheel axles are just barely long enough to clear the set screw. The bearings sit just a micron lower than the outer bushing, but still the axle is too short in my opinion, bearing in mind that the mud and soil here is legendary. So, in to the parts bin I went and dug out all those short gear axles I took out of the Lord knows how many Type 1's I modified. Had more then enough to replace all the road wheel and idler wheel axles and they are just long enough to come a tad out of the suspension arm. Haven't tried them for hull clearance, but if they are a bit too long it'll be a simple task to nip off the end right at the original lock ring cut.
Last edited by sevoblast; 01-21-2014 at 02:54 AM. Reason: Changed 'are' for 'arm'.
12-08-2016, 06:12 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Update IS 2 build
It's been a few days since I added to this build. A lot has happened in the three years, most know of the events here, I published my first novel and the second one is in process, we got very heavily involved with 35th Battery Museum and the tanks, and so on and so forth. Battery Museum consumed a lot of time not only for the tanks but other events. Tanks alone, I had to take just about everything I have and make it 'child and Sevastopol rock garden soil' proof. The children at Battery were also the test bed for the ETO transmissions and so far, two years in, they have not managed to damage a one. The children, read late grade school and teenagers, are very well supervised especially when driving the tanks but with the soil here it's very easy to get one of the innumerable small stones caught in a track and damage a transmission. No transmission was damaged in the least but I've replaced a lot of metal track links. The youngsters, and adults, get to drive the tanks only after the history classes we teach about both 35th Battery and the tanks in general. They also get two classes of 'how to' before they get to hold the controller by themselves.
The IS 2 (pronounced as one word here, 'Issdva') is needed at Battery for a number of reasons, main one being we don't have any Tiger killers available. We had 1 T34-76, 1 KV-1 and three T34-85 but it's difficult for the youngsters to get in position to get a shot at the flank or rear of the King. When the IS 2 is done, while it's not realistic I will remove the screen from the apple making the front invulnerable. I do let them kill the King from time to time but only after they've fought long and hard. With the IS 2 I think they'll have a better time. Another King killer is in the works and he'll go on another old thread that I will resurrect in the next couple days.
Since 'winter' is upon us I'll be working on the IS 2 and then the next Tiger killer every couple days and add to this thread before I resurrect the other thread.
The IS 2 (pronounced as one word here, 'Issdva') is needed at Battery for a number of reasons, main one being we don't have any Tiger killers available. We had 1 T34-76, 1 KV-1 and three T34-85 but it's difficult for the youngsters to get in position to get a shot at the flank or rear of the King. When the IS 2 is done, while it's not realistic I will remove the screen from the apple making the front invulnerable. I do let them kill the King from time to time but only after they've fought long and hard. With the IS 2 I think they'll have a better time. Another King killer is in the works and he'll go on another old thread that I will resurrect in the next couple days.
Since 'winter' is upon us I'll be working on the IS 2 and then the next Tiger killer every couple days and add to this thread before I resurrect the other thread.
12-09-2016, 08:09 AM
#14
Thread Starter
More will come tomorrow, Saturday. I was going to use the Wecohe prototypical recoil system but after a good hard look I figured that once the turret is together getting at the recoil if there is trouble would be a world class problem, ergo he gets the stock unit. Besides, most of his use, at least until mid summer, will be the youngsters and some not so youngsters learning how to drive a tank with a very long barrel so the more robust the build the better. I'll also finally have time to see about my units as motive power. At the moment he has the Tamipact unit in him.
12-09-2016, 09:36 AM
#15
getting at the recoil if there is trouble would be a world class problem
As to the IS-2...it's about time you did one LOL.
12-09-2016, 10:04 AM
#16
Thread Starter
The front 1/4 of the turret has to be removed to get at the recoil unit for most any recoil unit service. I've had to remove 2 of mine this way, and it was mildly destructive each time. Recommend rubber cement, or CA thick in small blobs around the perimeter.
As to the IS-2...it's about time you did one LOL.
As to the IS-2...it's about time you did one LOL.
Time I did one, or time I FINISHED one. LOL
12-11-2016, 04:54 AM
#17
Thread Starter
Chewing a bit more in the Issdva this afternoon. More weld lines, plus first welds around the grab irons. Also doing a mod to the front plate, I'll be using real track links with operating bolts and retainer plates.
12-15-2016, 06:47 AM
#19
Thread Starter
Thanks, Will, glad you enjoy it. I'll be adding more over the next day or so, weather is dumping as I type and tomorrow will be a tad chilly. Another tank day is looks like!
12-17-2016, 08:00 AM
#20
Thread Starter
Snow started Thursday night, therefore yesterday and today was 'tank and write' days. Tested the beast in the snow, all three inches of fine powder, and went about five meters when the 'all steel' drop down gear in the left Impact grenaded. That was the only Impact gear in the transmission, all the rest are Tamiya with bearings, not bushings. Out came the Impacts and in went Tamiya units with all the Tammy gears from the impacts. I installed a pair of slow but stump pulling Kricks and he seems to have the usual IS2 speed, read slow. I installed the foam rubber final drive seals during the installation after I sailed the offending gears the kilometer down to the Cruiser Moscow's quayside berth.
Next was to begin to make some order from the rat's nest of wiring. Instructions seem to say run the motor wiring under the speaker housing. Right, that puts them on top of the suspension torsion bars. Instead I ran them down the left side of the speaker between the housing and hull side, well up from any moving parts. I fabricated longer leads for the motors so all the plugs were in front of the housing and equal final length, then bundled the motor wires together and wire tied them.
During this process I removed every phillips screw from the hull floor and installed button head socket head screws to everything but the suspension rails, they got hex head bolts with lock washers.
Tomorrow I may work more on the hull front lower plate, thread the spare track retaining bolt holes and blow some paint on it and the turret. I'm also debating putting the emitter above the main gun in a small housing like I did on the KV. We'll see on that since for the near future after this thing is completed he'll go to Battery Museum for the youngsters to run, hence the super slow speed.
Next was to begin to make some order from the rat's nest of wiring. Instructions seem to say run the motor wiring under the speaker housing. Right, that puts them on top of the suspension torsion bars. Instead I ran them down the left side of the speaker between the housing and hull side, well up from any moving parts. I fabricated longer leads for the motors so all the plugs were in front of the housing and equal final length, then bundled the motor wires together and wire tied them.
During this process I removed every phillips screw from the hull floor and installed button head socket head screws to everything but the suspension rails, they got hex head bolts with lock washers.
Tomorrow I may work more on the hull front lower plate, thread the spare track retaining bolt holes and blow some paint on it and the turret. I'm also debating putting the emitter above the main gun in a small housing like I did on the KV. We'll see on that since for the near future after this thing is completed he'll go to Battery Museum for the youngsters to run, hence the super slow speed.
12-26-2016, 08:21 AM
#22
Thread Starter
Had some time to work on the turret. Got the upper part of the turret front done. I installed a simple piece of styrene, shimmed it and glued it to the inside of the turret roof. Then two holes were drilled (yeah, I know, I can't see well anymore and missed one by couple mm's but it don't matter) and 2 mm screws installed through the holes. The nuts are permanently fixed in the second thin layer of styrene inside the turret roof. If I have time tomorrow I'll take more photos and work on the lower retainer. However, looks like this will work and it's quite simple. The rain guard over the mantlet will be attached with rubber cement and clears, just barely, the screw heads. I may even get lucky and be able to put weld seams on him. I've got an idea that may work and the weld will stick to the actual mantlet but not the rain guard.
12-27-2016, 12:24 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Removable mantlet modification done. I'll neaten it up a bit in the next couple days but everything fits and works. An 0.3 mm shim will go under the upper right corner of the mantlet to even the fit to the turret but it's actually serviceable now.
The important thing is to use 2 mm screws and embed the upper tab retaining nuts in the bottom of the plastic tab. There is no clearance problems in the upper part of the mantlet or turret. The angle coming from the turret roof to the mantlet is slight and an easy part to replicate. However, be careful as you work to make sure the upper part of the mantlet matches as much as possible the turret casting. Even on the prototype the fit of the mantlet to the turret casting is poor on the outside.
The lower tab is a bit more complicated in concept and should be done after the upper tab as it's the upper part that is the guide for the installation. I made that part out of thin brass and again used 2 mm screws, these being countersink screws. I simply put a 2 mm plastic shim on the turret floor right behind the mantlet to raise the attaching area to the same height as the mantlet floor. The angle does change at the rear edge of the mantlet but the angle is not severe. Once the mantlet end of the tab is installed the exact angle can be replicated and one 2 mm countersunk machine screw is installed in the turret race. Be careful with this final part of the operation, a little bit of countersink for the hole goes a long way. However, the entire screw head has to clear the turret race rail for proper operation. Both screws are machine screws going in to a threaded hole in the brass plate.
The important thing is to use 2 mm screws and embed the upper tab retaining nuts in the bottom of the plastic tab. There is no clearance problems in the upper part of the mantlet or turret. The angle coming from the turret roof to the mantlet is slight and an easy part to replicate. However, be careful as you work to make sure the upper part of the mantlet matches as much as possible the turret casting. Even on the prototype the fit of the mantlet to the turret casting is poor on the outside.
The lower tab is a bit more complicated in concept and should be done after the upper tab as it's the upper part that is the guide for the installation. I made that part out of thin brass and again used 2 mm screws, these being countersink screws. I simply put a 2 mm plastic shim on the turret floor right behind the mantlet to raise the attaching area to the same height as the mantlet floor. The angle does change at the rear edge of the mantlet but the angle is not severe. Once the mantlet end of the tab is installed the exact angle can be replicated and one 2 mm countersunk machine screw is installed in the turret race. Be careful with this final part of the operation, a little bit of countersink for the hole goes a long way. However, the entire screw head has to clear the turret race rail for proper operation. Both screws are machine screws going in to a threaded hole in the brass plate.
12-28-2016, 11:14 AM
#24
Nice work Robert!!!!! Thanks for sharing.
