crash99

My Feedback: (3)

I saw this event looking at Missouri events.

49TH MID AMERICA JUMBO SQUADRON FALL FLY IN. Site: Fleming Park. Susan Calvin CD PH: 816-478-8330 Email: [email protected]. Visit: www.49thsquadron.com. This is a fun fly event, bring lots of plance. Entrants should be prepared to have their radion systems inspected for FCC compliance. 3D flying is prohibited by club policy.

I did copy and paste the above from the AMA event page. I think the AMA needs to add a new flying event called Circle Fly Event. First I feel bad this event is in Missouri. I feel the term Fun Fly should never be used if your going to prohibit a large group of flyers from the event. A Fun Fly event should be FUN!

I also wonder where a CD of a event can band a radion systems that may meet the FCC standards but has no Compliance sticker. A CD is not an enforcer of the FCC. I have not seen any restricting the radion systems by name by the AMA. I will assume this is another item the is prohibited by this club. Whats next, banding JR radio systems?

I am sure the group up there has their reasons but don't use FunFly

Crash99

ggraham500

My Feedback: (4)

"radion" system no doubt a typo for radio system impoundment primarily for 72MHz or 27Mhz systems. A club can certainly have a fun fly with whatever restrictions that club chooses.

I don't see any big deal. Each club is, in fact, autonomous.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Well put. The CD/club can put any restrictions they want on an event.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

A CD has the option to have a event with restrictions. Class C-Restricted and list restrictions like 626 RC Precision Aerobatics, 521 CL Profile, 411 Scale Aerobatics/Basic, .I have a issue with calling it a Fun Fly.

Crash99

bradpaul

I guess radion systems are what you use to control plance. Yes there is a problem with those banded JR radios. Just how does a CD "band" a radio

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

This reminds me of a club I was once a member.

They would have funfly events but would expressly restrict 3D planes. When asked what constitutes a 3D plane they had no concise answer... As we know even a Cub can be made to 3D. Well, after questioning one of the CDs it was determined essentially all the planes I owned were 3D planes and somehow not eligible for the event. The really crazy thing is that many of the planes that were allowed to fly at the events were indeed very capable 3D models as most typical FunFly planes of that era were...

After some thought it become clear the type of plane wasn't the issue, they just didn't want 3d pilots or 3d flying at their events... It is a real shame people can be so narrow minded and find justification or support for their narrow mindedness.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Crash, I'm sure the guys who show up to fly at that event will have plenty of fun without having you there to show them how it is supposed to be done.

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

+1

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

I flew at this event last year, and will attend tomorrow. It is perfectly fair to designate the type of flying at any event. This is a casual event for flying military type aircraft and hovering in the middle of the runway while warbirds fly by is unsafe. While I respect the skill involved in 3D and hovering, it is about as boring to watch as anything I can imagine. The thought that you don't want to allow fellow modelers to pursue their passions, at their flying field, is very unreasonable; just as if this group would come to your event and protest your 3D fly-in and promote only their style of flying.

In my personal experience, I am uncomfortable being around 3D flying because I have seen too many close calls. You have a flyer in the Eldon area that could tail-touch the top of my head and I wouldn't worry about it (DM) but just about everybody else I have seen makes me nervous. Plus, when the 3D'ers fly, they seem compelled to occupy the center of the runway rendering it useless for everybody else and making most pilots on the flightline uncomfortable.

Many years ago, when helicopters first started showing up, many clubs objected to them for pretty much the same reasons. They eventually compromised and set aside a separate area for their exclusive use. It will eventually work itself out, but in the meantime, there are a lot of 3D fly-ins in the area, and, in fact, there is one at this same field in a week or two you can attend. I promise you that no warbird pilot will be in your way or protest what you are doing......

playntraffic

Did anybody even look at the AMA website? This is a direct quote from today 7/9/10

It doesn't mention Fun-Fly, it is a Warbird event. Why would you even state that 3D flying is prohibited? When was the last time you saw a P51 do a blender or rolling loop? Let the warbird flyers have their event in peace.

FWIW an overweight warbird and inexperienced pilot with bad eyesight makes me nervous, entertained, but nervous. Bad pilots are bad pilots, doesn't matter what type of plane they fly.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

I don't think you can call it a Warbird event....someone might think those planes don't look like birds at all! *lol*


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Silent-AV8R

An amusing story is that Kermit Weeks has flown his IAC Freestyle routine using his P-51.

Tarasdad

As was stated on the AMA website (where you also posted this rant) any club can place any limits they choose on an event, be it types of flying, types of aircraft allowed, what radio systems you can use - whatever they want to do! It is the right of each club to set policies that fit their needs, and yours to obey those policies, not ***** about them on every forum you can post to. Personally I have no problem with a club prohibiting a style of flying that typically involves blocking access to the runway for extended periods of time.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Your correct, here it the event I was talking about.

9/18/2010 Lees Summit, MO (C) 49TH MID AMERICA JUMBO SQUADRON FALL FLY IN. Site: Fleming Park. Susan Calvin CD PH: 816-478-8330 Email: [email protected]. Visit: www.49thsquadron.com. This is a fun fly event, bring lots of plance. Entrants should be prepared to have their radion systems inspected for FCC compliance. 3D flying is prohibited by club policy. Our grill will serve hot dogs, polish sausage, snack & soft drinks. Reigstration is at 8AM, flying from 9AM to 5PM, landing fee $10. Sponsor: 49TH MID AMERICA JUMBO SQUAD

Yes a club has the right to do what ever they want. The point is the AMA membership is going down every year and I think this is the reason. I did mis read it, fly in not Fun Fly.

3D boring? yes your right to watch. To control is is anything but boring. Takes skill to perform. Seeing a plane fly in circles can be extreamly boring to watch but for that pilot it is not. It is how you look at things.

"You have a flyer in the Eldon area that could tail-touch the top of my head and I wouldn't worry about it (DM)" I think you went over board on DM. he would never tail-touch the top of my head. I fly with him weekly. Best RC pilot I have ever seen.

Crash, I'm sure the guys who show up to fly at that event will have plenty of fun without having you there to show them how it is supposed to be done. You did not get it. Restricting AMA members from flying is the point. They should call it what it is. Warbird and sport fly in.

I don't show anyone how its done, I fly for the fun of it. Combatpigg, you should try that. It is why it is so much fun.

Lifer, My point is a club that promotes the hobby is a good club. The other clubs restrict. If you remember there was a large event that helped the MDA raise money. They got the ANTI 3D attidude and went from 130+ Pilots to 70 or so. Not there is not Taylor event at all. Who is the loser? MDA! I am one of those that did not go back.

I am uncomfortable being around 3D flying because I have seen too many close calls. You know what. I understand that. Just don't fly when they are up. Maybe have a no 3D in the last 1/2 of the hour if you have problems with to many 3Ders flying. We never see that issue.

Bottom line we will find ourselfs deciding what kind of club will we have. One that promote RC flying and one who is part of the decline of AMA membership. Meaning a increase of AMA insurance. It is sad when any club needs to restrict.

I am glad to say, my club falls in the good club group. Come on down and bring your warbirds. We do not restrict.

Crash99

Tarasdad

The problem here is in your very last sentence. Seems you choose to divide clubs into "good" or "bad" by whether they restrict your ability to fly whatever you want whenever you want, club policies can go hang. That is the absolute WRONG attitude to have. Period. Each club must be allowed to set their own policies. Anything else is unacceptable.

Simply put, if you don't like the restrictions on a certain event or flying field, don't go. It's as easy as that. NOTHING gives you the right to bash them for their choices, ever.

beepee

Darn. Wish I were state side so I could go. I would just to support the club's decision. Good for them.

Bedford

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Yah crash, from now on I'll be sure to use you as my role model.

I've seen spin doctoring in my day, but you're actually doing some pretty good torque rolls there.

To come here just so you can complain about how a club wants to run their event and even go so far as to make fun of them for "flying in circles".....well, I'll let anyone who is reading this message complete the sentence.

I'll bet you got one of those "Piss On Flying in Circles" decals on all your planes, huh?
Kewl..........

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Crash certainly got it right..."Lifer, My point is a club that promotes the hobby is a good club. The other clubs restrict." You guys can rag on Crash all you want but his bottom line is on target.

Sure a club can do whatever it wants, up to and including adopting narrow minded policies that will insure its inevitable demise... Really, how long do you think that “NO 3D� policy will pay dividends for the club and the hobby???

Oh BTW and IMO the contempt for 3D flying by some posters in this thread is abundantly clear to me. With that in mind, I'll just say that anyone with the skills to actually fly 3D well typically isn't against 3D flying...all the while others that can't 3D or can't 3d well profess to know so much about it...really strange and weird rationalizations some have and that certainly hasn't prevented them from endlessly speaking of things they have not the slightest clue.

Oh well, back to regularly scheduled programming... 3D bad... circle flying good.

Silent-AV8R

This is the fallacy here, that any kind of restrictions are either:

A) Not "promoting the hobby"

or

B) Will lead to the demise of the club

These are both nonsense. There are plenty of clubs with various restrictions that are thriving. In addition, it is patently absurd to argue that not allowing one kind or another of flying or aircraft hurts the hobby or a club.

I belong to a soaring club that is one of the oldest AMA clubs around. Odd how only allowing glider flying has not hurt them. There are many other examples of similar situations all proving that restrictions have nothing to do with club longevity.

I also belong to a club that does not allow turbines. We have a waiting list to join (restricted by site owner to 400 members). I know several other thriving clubs that ban turbines, some that ban helicopters, and so on. None have been hurt by restrictions.

While I support the idea that the perfect situation is to allow everything, I also fully understand why some clubs choose not to do so.

Tarasdad

Around here most clubs have a 400 foot altitude restriction, primarily because of military flights from Edwards AFB or civilian traffic from Palmdale Airport. I'm sure someone would find a way to say that's "killing the hobby" and that they should be free to fly however high the want. I'm sure the FAA would disagree.

I have nothing against 3D flying. When it's a good pilot it's a joy to watch. What I object to is one pilot and plane monopolizing the runway and making it impossible for others to take off or land. I don't care if it's a plane, heli, blimp, whatever - share the runway or GETOFF and let others use it too. Being able to fly 3Dgives you no more right to the airspace than anyone else.

Just FYI, when I was originally in the hobby I love nothing better than to run a tank or two shooting touch-and-goes, one after the other. Even while doing them, though, I knew that others would need the runway as well so made absolutely sure that my flying wasn't interrupting anyone else's. If anyone announced a takeoff or landing I'd simply continue the pattern rather than come in. Everyone had fun, nobody was kept from flying when the wanted.

Restrictions happen. There may be some very valid (or even legal) reasons for them, or they may just be the preference of the club members involved. Unless you're a member of the club in question you have no right to judge them. None.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I shouldn't be because I've seen it often enough, but I never cease to be amazed by the childish leaps of logic put on display here. The worst of the worst is when I start hearing stuff like, "well, you are against 3D flying because you lack the skills and are just jealous"......

joizeex

so here's what i'm not getting. so the 3D guys are taking over the runway to hover their planes. isn't it possible to do that over the flying area and not over the runway itself? let's assume the runway is 20' wide and the person is standing on the bench side of it. i'm sure if they hover the plane on the other side of the runway, say 40-50' from them (20-30' from runway), they can still see the plane and hover it just as well, along with doing any other 3D stuff. meanwhile, anyone can safely take off and land.

i mean, does it absolutely have to be over the runway? i'm not knocking 3D guys, since being a heli pilot (i also just bought 3 foamie warbirds) i know there's a bit of alienation towards us as well, although in many clubs there are heli dedicated areas. personally, when i fly helis, i don't just sit in one area, i'm doing FFF (fast forward flight) everywhere. i can only do very basic stunts for now (flips and rolls), but i don't do them 10' from me because i don't want to get slapped by the rotor if i mess up. i understand for people just learning to hover, they like to keep the heli close (that's what heli area is for), but once you get that down and move on to FFF, you shouldn't need to stay so close that you can read fine lettering on the gyro. i think it should be the same with chucking your plane around or hanging it on the prop. my question at the start of this paragraph is that of curiosity, because i feel like that would change a lot of things, unless there's something i don't know about, so please inform me.

just throwing some ideas out there. i'm not a member of any club myself because i fly at parks and idle private/township fields, so i have whole huge areas all to myself and sometimes a couple of friends, so i could care less. however, i do see this subject of 3D and heli flying being brought up ALL the time and i just don't understand why people can't share the area by adjusting the flying/hovering distance away from the runway. it's safer for the pilot AND other aircraft.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I'm no copter pilot, but hovering a plane is a little bit like balancing a balloon on a stick. The larger planes are fairly easy to hover, they get progressively more difficult as you drop down in horsepower and when power to weight ratios begin to suffer. You are right, you do not need to fly like a "PRIMADONNA" and be a "LOOK AT ME EVERYBODY" type guy, center stage in the middle of the runway, it can be done off to the side aways. The trouble is, the further away you get, the harder it is to judge and anticipate the little nudges on the controls to keep from falling out of you routine.
The guys who are devoting their own time and energy to make this event happen are most likely doing it because they share a specific common interest in warbirds. Some of them might look down upon 3D, if so... who cares? Who is going to force some of them to like something they don't? This is their free time on Earth to do as they please and only a real jerk would have any problem with their right to do so.
Like my parents would tell me when I was just a little guy, "we don't make these rules just to be mean, we have these rules because of bad experiences we've seen or have had ourselves. Once you start paying your own bills, then you can have your own set of rules any way you see fit."

bradpaul

Perhaps common sense just has disappeared from RC. I thought it was a universal rule that if a pilot calls "takeoff", "landing" or "deadstick" then that pilot has priority over all activity on or over the runway. Flying 3D, Scale, Helis ...... anything...... you GET OUT OF THE WAY.

Brad

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

What does a pilot call when his 40% plane loses control 50 feet from the rest of the pilot stations while the other guys have their hands full already?

Common sense tells me that if 99% of your flight routine is done 200-600 feet away from the rest of humanity, the odds of someone else getting hurt or having to scramble for cover is infinitely less than if some guy is doing 99% of his routine 50 feet away from others with his plane on the brink of losing control during the whole session.

That's just common sense.