what is up with these registration fees?
07-05-2006, 09:41 PM
#51
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
Easytiger, if the german passes on that offer, can I have it. LOL
Warbird, I am sorry you are upset about the landing fees at these events, since you are also new to jets, not sure if it is ducted fans or turbines, but are you also complaining about other prices of items needed to fly jets? ie; servos, turbines, kits, etc, etc. about the only thing cheap in the jet community is the Kerosine, and the friendship you gain? PRICELESS...........
like other have already said, if the price of the events are to high, stay home.
see the rest of you next week at Capitol Jets up in Albany NY
Mark
Warbird, I am sorry you are upset about the landing fees at these events, since you are also new to jets, not sure if it is ducted fans or turbines, but are you also complaining about other prices of items needed to fly jets? ie; servos, turbines, kits, etc, etc. about the only thing cheap in the jet community is the Kerosine, and the friendship you gain? PRICELESS...........
like other have already said, if the price of the events are to high, stay home.
see the rest of you next week at Capitol Jets up in Albany NY
Mark
07-06-2006, 12:28 AM
#53
RE: what is up with these registration fees?
Why is it called a 'landing fee'? Does this mean if you crash on your first flight you have not landed & therefore get a refund? [sm=lol.gif]
Sorry [sm=bananahead.gif]
The ones I've attended in Oz as a pit pony:
2 were $85 for 3 days (less $5 if you returned the poncy numbered aprons)
1 was $25 for 3 days with unlimited food on the field for pilot & pit crew
1 was $50 for 3 days and at least part of that went to the full size airport for use of their facilities.
Every one of these events had toilets, shelter, recovery truck, overnight storage so models didn't have to come apart, security for the stored models, one even had a crewed fire truck. Sounds pretty fair to me. - John.
Sorry [sm=bananahead.gif]
The ones I've attended in Oz as a pit pony:
2 were $85 for 3 days (less $5 if you returned the poncy numbered aprons)
1 was $25 for 3 days with unlimited food on the field for pilot & pit crew
1 was $50 for 3 days and at least part of that went to the full size airport for use of their facilities.
Every one of these events had toilets, shelter, recovery truck, overnight storage so models didn't have to come apart, security for the stored models, one even had a crewed fire truck. Sounds pretty fair to me. - John.
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
#55
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
hmmmmm, how about if I take off and land at some other runway other than the one I paid for? Could my cheap ass get a freebie then? 
07-06-2006, 01:45 AM
#57
Senior Member
RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: scaleMan
Could my cheap ass get a freebie then?
Could my cheap ass get a freebie then?
Hmmm...I'm feelin' a triple treat in the sunset on Fri. eve at CA Jet 07. Three Big Yellow Twins dancing through the pink and orange. All with landing lights on the nose gear.
I'm feelin' that!
And I know you'd enjoy flying with Joe and Dave!
Bring 'er down bro.
Paul
07-06-2006, 02:02 AM
#58
Senior Member
RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: GSR
Paul, how bout if i land just off the side of the runway (like you caught me on the CAJets video
Do I get a reduced fee???? Scotty R
Paul, how bout if i land just off the side of the runway (like you caught me on the CAJets video
Do I get a reduced fee???? Scotty R
I was pretty proud of the camera work on that particular clip...and the sponsors thank you for performing that "non-exempt-from-landing-fees" landing dead center in front of their banners
Was a tribute to two things...rugged retract units, and Kenny's dragging the sides of the runway prior to the event. That could have been a heartbreaker right thar. When it reared up, the nose came within inches of impale, which would have resulted in a nasty somersault.
You da mang, mang!
07-06-2006, 02:19 AM
#59
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: SDCrashmaster
Hmmm...I'm feelin' a triple treat in the sunset on Fri. eve at CA Jet 07. Three Big Yellow Twins dancing through the pink and orange. All with landing lights on the nose gear.
Hmmm...I'm feelin' a triple treat in the sunset on Fri. eve at CA Jet 07. Three Big Yellow Twins dancing through the pink and orange. All with landing lights on the nose gear.
Im nearing primer. Have alot of work ahead to get her worthy of sharing the sky with smokin Joe and lou's awesome hornets...... Without a doubt, she'll be @ CA Jets '07'! of course, among other more conservative subjects of mine that don't require me to bring out the wheelchair before flight.....
Greg,
07-06-2006, 09:39 AM
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: Andreas Unterbusch
Question
Why is there a fee at all? The event can only take place when pilots are attending. The pure event costs should be covered by they earnings of selling drinks and food and gadgets.
This is how it works here in germany. Nobody will attend an event you have to pay for. At least it is a honour for the event organizer to have as much representative pilots as possible.
When I go to an event, I get asked some months before and then if I attend I have normaly a voucher for the day I am attending to get drinks and/or food. The rest are my costs like travelling, hotel and so on.
Andreas
Question
Why is there a fee at all? The event can only take place when pilots are attending. The pure event costs should be covered by they earnings of selling drinks and food and gadgets.
This is how it works here in germany. Nobody will attend an event you have to pay for. At least it is a honour for the event organizer to have as much representative pilots as possible.
When I go to an event, I get asked some months before and then if I attend I have normaly a voucher for the day I am attending to get drinks and/or food. The rest are my costs like travelling, hotel and so on.
Andreas
07-06-2006, 09:48 AM
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: ghost_rider
If you do not want to pay the landing fee, just stay at home. If you want to pay only $5 to fly, you might as well stick to your warbid events.
If you do not want to pay the landing fee, just stay at home. If you want to pay only $5 to fly, you might as well stick to your warbid events.
07-06-2006, 09:57 AM
#63
RE: what is up with these registration fees?
Is it not true at events in Germany that only one aircraft is allowed to be airborne at a time ? The last event that I attended in Germany about 15 years ago , that was the way it was done.(It was an Electric event) And the que was about two blocks long with pilots lined up like a drill team.
Also how much $$$ does one spend going to the local movie, $ 10.00 per head and don't buy popcorn or the cost will increase by 50%
Semper Fi
joe
Also how much $$$ does one spend going to the local movie, $ 10.00 per head and don't buy popcorn or the cost will increase by 50%
Semper Fi
joe
ORIGINAL: vasek
I have to agree with the germans... smart & simple
ORIGINAL: Andreas Unterbusch
Question
Why is there a fee at all? The event can only take place when pilots are attending. The pure event costs should be covered by they earnings of selling drinks and food and gadgets.
This is how it works here in germany. Nobody will attend an event you have to pay for. At least it is a honour for the event organizer to have as much representative pilots as possible.
When I go to an event, I get asked some months before and then if I attend I have normaly a voucher for the day I am attending to get drinks and/or food. The rest are my costs like travelling, hotel and so on.
Andreas
Question
Why is there a fee at all? The event can only take place when pilots are attending. The pure event costs should be covered by they earnings of selling drinks and food and gadgets.
This is how it works here in germany. Nobody will attend an event you have to pay for. At least it is a honour for the event organizer to have as much representative pilots as possible.
When I go to an event, I get asked some months before and then if I attend I have normaly a voucher for the day I am attending to get drinks and/or food. The rest are my costs like travelling, hotel and so on.
Andreas
07-06-2006, 09:57 AM
#64
Senior Member
RE: what is up with these registration fees?
Putting on an event is also not just for the rich and snobby. There is no reason someone should take a hit for providing the kind of fun had at these events.
If you want to dance, you have to pay the piper. Now, you can always get the pied piper...he toots his flute for free. But you know what is following close behind don't you?
If you want to dance, you have to pay the piper. Now, you can always get the pied piper...he toots his flute for free. But you know what is following close behind don't you?
07-06-2006, 01:41 PM
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: SDCrashmaster
Putting on an event is also not just for the rich and snobby. There is no reason someone should take a hit for providing the kind of fun had at these events.
If you want to dance, you have to pay the piper. Now, you can always get the pied piper...he toots his flute for free. But you know what is following close behind don't you?
Putting on an event is also not just for the rich and snobby. There is no reason someone should take a hit for providing the kind of fun had at these events.
If you want to dance, you have to pay the piper. Now, you can always get the pied piper...he toots his flute for free. But you know what is following close behind don't you?
LMAO!!
07-06-2006, 02:33 PM
#67
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
They way some guys argue are strange to me.
First--> yes the main shows in germany are held that way that one plane is flying a time. Reason: The events here are held for the audience. It is a honour to the audience to show only one plane at a time so that the pilot also can show his skills. BUT! this depends to the specific Pilot and to the type of demostration. For example: we have a group of warbird pilots that are showing up to 15 planes the same time with scale 1:4 to 1:5!
Also we have shows here where there are speed Pilots showing the performance of sport jets.
Most of the scale Pilots don't want to be together with more than two planes due to the circuumstane that the audience cannat pay enough attention to the individual characteristics of these scale planes.
So, as you can see; it is mainly a wish of the pilot how he can demonstrate his plane! It is not mandatory to proceed that way!
I cannot judge your events because I never participated to them but I know most of the european events and 95% of the pilots are satisfied with the procedures. Unfortunately the trend is that the events are getting bigger and bigger and without beeing invited you cannot attend!
Back to topic:
Here was a list about costs a page before. I watched it and connot see the reason for a fee again. but thats maybe b'cause some things are different here in germany.
For example, the insurance is part of every pilots insurance which is mainle the DMFV ( German model airplane association) Also if a club wants to organize an event, the insurance is included in this!
AMA Sanction -----> no extra costs covered by DMFV
AMA Insurance -----> no extra costs covered by DMFV
Pilot Awards -----> if there any it is self evident taht the club will cover the costs
Sponsor Gifts -----> as the word says "sponsors GIFT's"
Advertising ------> covered by club
Printing ------> covered by club
Postage ------> covered by club (last year 260 invitations where send out by mail, ~ 250 by email
Signs ------> part of clubs inventory
Site Prep - at least 50 to 75 seperate issues ?????
Porta Toilets ------> covered by club
Dumpster ------> covered by club
Security ------> covered by club members
Labor ------> covered by club members
Hotel Rooms ------> pilots private invest
Meals ------> pre invest of club, some profit
For the Items which are listed "covered by club" our last year expenses where ~ € 3.500,-- which are roughly US$ 4.475,--
Our profit by selling stickers, badges, food and drinks where ~ € 3.650,-- means at least we did some profit. On top came some donations from club mebers like some 50th liters of beer, some meat for the evening BBQ, a party tent and some other gadgets.
I now organized the 6th event. As I said we will have it this weekend and I am pretty sure we will again do some profit. Even if it is minor. We all will have fun!
Everything without charging the pilots with a fee!
The question I have, If you charge a pilot with a "landing fee" what is the benefit he will have for this?
I think it is enough if a pilot will travel long distances paying for gasoline, maybe hotel, to attend to a meeting.
The minimum we can do for him to attend our meeting is to be kind to him and beeing hospitable!
I today got an invitation for the AMT Jetmeeting in Cologne in August the 12/13. Again no fees at all. The last year's the event was visited on both days with around 200! Pilots.
End of this month the Pampa Jet Fighters in Belgium will have their 16th "Jets over Pampa" one of the biggest events in europe. Again no registration fees http://www.pmf.be/jop_inschr_en.php
If it is essential to extol these fees, how can we all survive without??
Andreas
First--> yes the main shows in germany are held that way that one plane is flying a time. Reason: The events here are held for the audience. It is a honour to the audience to show only one plane at a time so that the pilot also can show his skills. BUT! this depends to the specific Pilot and to the type of demostration. For example: we have a group of warbird pilots that are showing up to 15 planes the same time with scale 1:4 to 1:5!
Also we have shows here where there are speed Pilots showing the performance of sport jets.
Most of the scale Pilots don't want to be together with more than two planes due to the circuumstane that the audience cannat pay enough attention to the individual characteristics of these scale planes.
So, as you can see; it is mainly a wish of the pilot how he can demonstrate his plane! It is not mandatory to proceed that way!
I cannot judge your events because I never participated to them but I know most of the european events and 95% of the pilots are satisfied with the procedures. Unfortunately the trend is that the events are getting bigger and bigger and without beeing invited you cannot attend!
Back to topic:
Here was a list about costs a page before. I watched it and connot see the reason for a fee again. but thats maybe b'cause some things are different here in germany.
For example, the insurance is part of every pilots insurance which is mainle the DMFV ( German model airplane association) Also if a club wants to organize an event, the insurance is included in this!
AMA Sanction -----> no extra costs covered by DMFV
AMA Insurance -----> no extra costs covered by DMFV
Pilot Awards -----> if there any it is self evident taht the club will cover the costs
Sponsor Gifts -----> as the word says "sponsors GIFT's"
Advertising ------> covered by club
Printing ------> covered by club
Postage ------> covered by club (last year 260 invitations where send out by mail, ~ 250 by email
Signs ------> part of clubs inventory
Site Prep - at least 50 to 75 seperate issues ?????
Porta Toilets ------> covered by club
Dumpster ------> covered by club
Security ------> covered by club members
Labor ------> covered by club members
Hotel Rooms ------> pilots private invest
Meals ------> pre invest of club, some profit
For the Items which are listed "covered by club" our last year expenses where ~ € 3.500,-- which are roughly US$ 4.475,--
Our profit by selling stickers, badges, food and drinks where ~ € 3.650,-- means at least we did some profit. On top came some donations from club mebers like some 50th liters of beer, some meat for the evening BBQ, a party tent and some other gadgets.
I now organized the 6th event. As I said we will have it this weekend and I am pretty sure we will again do some profit. Even if it is minor. We all will have fun!
Everything without charging the pilots with a fee!
The question I have, If you charge a pilot with a "landing fee" what is the benefit he will have for this?
I think it is enough if a pilot will travel long distances paying for gasoline, maybe hotel, to attend to a meeting.
The minimum we can do for him to attend our meeting is to be kind to him and beeing hospitable!
I today got an invitation for the AMT Jetmeeting in Cologne in August the 12/13. Again no fees at all. The last year's the event was visited on both days with around 200! Pilots.
End of this month the Pampa Jet Fighters in Belgium will have their 16th "Jets over Pampa" one of the biggest events in europe. Again no registration fees http://www.pmf.be/jop_inschr_en.php
If it is essential to extol these fees, how can we all survive without??
Andreas
07-06-2006, 02:54 PM
#68
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: Andreas Unterbusch
They way some guys argue are strange to me.
First--> yes the main shows in germany are held that way that one plane is flying a time. Reason: The events here are held for the audience. It is a honour to the audience to show only one plane at a time so that the pilot also can show his skills.
They way some guys argue are strange to me.
First--> yes the main shows in germany are held that way that one plane is flying a time. Reason: The events here are held for the audience. It is a honour to the audience to show only one plane at a time so that the pilot also can show his skills.
[ul][*] paying a whopping $10 per day in exchange for getting to fly as often as I want, and flying "for fun" with my buddies in the air with me, or[*] saving $10 a day and having to wait in line for my chance to fly, then having to fly in such a way as to please some audience rather than please myself
[/ul]
then I know exactly which of the two I would choose. You'd have to pay me a heck of a lot more than $10 per day for me to give up the fun & freedom we have at our style of events.
Most of the scale Pilots don't want to be together with more than two planes due to the circuumstane that the audience cannat pay enough attention to the individual characteristics of these scale planes.
YMMV, which is fine.
Gordon
07-06-2006, 03:05 PM
#69
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
If the event is only costing you guys $4,475, then that explains why there are no pilot fees. What if one were to cost you well over $10,000? Would you go to the pilots for help or would you pay the difference?
07-06-2006, 03:30 PM
#70
RE: what is up with these registration fees?
I today got an invitation for the AMT Jetmeeting in Cologne in August the 12/13. Again no fees at all. The last year's the event was visited on both days with around 200! Pilots.
If it is essential to extol these fees, how can we all survive without??
Andreas
[/quote]
Well Here in the "States" we can pick and choose our events, all that is required is a valid Turbine permit , AMA card , and a few dollars.
What does it take to get "An Invitation"?
semper Fi
Joe
If it is essential to extol these fees, how can we all survive without??
Andreas
[/quote]
Well Here in the "States" we can pick and choose our events, all that is required is a valid Turbine permit , AMA card , and a few dollars.
What does it take to get "An Invitation"?
semper Fi
Joe
07-06-2006, 04:04 PM
#71
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
replace invitation with information! and just forget the rest. you are fine with your fees and we feel fine without.
there is no qualification neccessary to get thes "invitations". Invitation in that case just means that the club invites EVERYBODY with jets to attend!
There are only minor events here in Germany you really need to be invited. But this mainly is because these events are getting to crowded if everybody wants to fly.
there is no qualification neccessary to get thes "invitations". Invitation in that case just means that the club invites EVERYBODY with jets to attend!
There are only minor events here in Germany you really need to be invited. But this mainly is because these events are getting to crowded if everybody wants to fly.
07-07-2006, 09:24 PM
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
Having promoted some 18 or 20 event over the past 6 years I can say that some events cost a lot to put on and some don't.
A fun fly with a few donated prizes is one thing, but a Jet Rally Such as the Fresno-Madera Jet Rally coming up in Sept. does cost some bucks to put on i.e., Porta potty, Handicapped accessible cost $140 for the weekend, others cost about $30-$40 ea to have emptied after an event, printing of fliers $200-$400, Sanction, advertising, Trophies, BBQ dinner, Hats. lunches, gas for the generator (@ $3+/gal that's over $100 for the weekend). What ever is included in the fee is still a cost to the event. Not to mention general club members are not gonna give up the field for a weekend to !QUOT!break even!QUOT!.
I agree, however that $70 sounds a bit high, but I don't know the offerings for that fee.
Some people go to an event and pay $14 for a spaghetti dinner. We do Tri-Tip and have never been over $12.
Most promoters want to put on a great show that's not overpriced so the pilots will return next year as well as the public.
Also the general thought is, Someone who can spend $6000-$20,000 on a toy and let's face it they are grown up's !QUOT!toys!QUOT!, can spend a few bucks to attend a great event.
And yes we do care that some have come from long distances. Some fields are governed by a recreation department and have to abide by some limitations, some event actually rent a facility and all necessary logistical items to host an event these could run in to higher cost do to limited attendance or limited space. We can't pack 6000 in for $15 ea.
The clubs that put on the events depend on the revenues to keep solvent and improve the fields and lengthen the runways, although in a lot cases I seen with jet pilots we should widen the runways...and generally improve the events for the next year.
This years Fresno-Madera Jet Rally is $30 pre-register (9/03) and $35 at the door, this includes one Lunch Combo ticket and an embroidered event hat. Not bad for $30! Plus you get to fly at one of the TOP fields in California!
Well I guess I've thrown in my 2 cents worth as a promoter (the other side of the story).
Craig Roberts, CD 2006 Fresno-Madera Jet Rally Sept. 22-24, 2006 Madera CA.
http://www.frcm.org/jets
A fun fly with a few donated prizes is one thing, but a Jet Rally Such as the Fresno-Madera Jet Rally coming up in Sept. does cost some bucks to put on i.e., Porta potty, Handicapped accessible cost $140 for the weekend, others cost about $30-$40 ea to have emptied after an event, printing of fliers $200-$400, Sanction, advertising, Trophies, BBQ dinner, Hats. lunches, gas for the generator (@ $3+/gal that's over $100 for the weekend). What ever is included in the fee is still a cost to the event. Not to mention general club members are not gonna give up the field for a weekend to !QUOT!break even!QUOT!.
I agree, however that $70 sounds a bit high, but I don't know the offerings for that fee.
Some people go to an event and pay $14 for a spaghetti dinner. We do Tri-Tip and have never been over $12.
Most promoters want to put on a great show that's not overpriced so the pilots will return next year as well as the public.
Also the general thought is, Someone who can spend $6000-$20,000 on a toy and let's face it they are grown up's !QUOT!toys!QUOT!, can spend a few bucks to attend a great event.
And yes we do care that some have come from long distances. Some fields are governed by a recreation department and have to abide by some limitations, some event actually rent a facility and all necessary logistical items to host an event these could run in to higher cost do to limited attendance or limited space. We can't pack 6000 in for $15 ea.
The clubs that put on the events depend on the revenues to keep solvent and improve the fields and lengthen the runways, although in a lot cases I seen with jet pilots we should widen the runways...and generally improve the events for the next year.
This years Fresno-Madera Jet Rally is $30 pre-register (9/03) and $35 at the door, this includes one Lunch Combo ticket and an embroidered event hat. Not bad for $30! Plus you get to fly at one of the TOP fields in California!
Well I guess I've thrown in my 2 cents worth as a promoter (the other side of the story).
Craig Roberts, CD 2006 Fresno-Madera Jet Rally Sept. 22-24, 2006 Madera CA.
http://www.frcm.org/jets
07-08-2006, 10:10 AM
#73
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
Wow, some great promoter of "!QUOT!toys!QUOT!"you are, so why your interest in promoting toy playing.... It's obviuos by the way
you feel about it we should all be thankfull to you for letting us play under your supervision.
you feel about it we should all be thankfull to you for letting us play under your supervision.
07-08-2006, 01:59 PM
#74
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
ORIGINAL: cr2k
This years Fresno-Madera Jet Rally is $30 pre-register (9/03) and $35 at the door, this includes one Lunch Combo ticket and an embroidered event hat. Not bad for $30! Plus you get to fly at one of the TOP fields in California!
Craig Roberts, CD 2006 Fresno-Madera Jet Rally Sept. 22-24, 2006 Madera CA.
http://www.frcm.org/jets
This years Fresno-Madera Jet Rally is $30 pre-register (9/03) and $35 at the door, this includes one Lunch Combo ticket and an embroidered event hat. Not bad for $30! Plus you get to fly at one of the TOP fields in California!
Craig Roberts, CD 2006 Fresno-Madera Jet Rally Sept. 22-24, 2006 Madera CA.
http://www.frcm.org/jets
[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]
07-08-2006, 03:52 PM
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RE: what is up with these registration fees?
We are charging $35.00 for a three day meet. IMHO, that is cheap...especially when you consider the new 800' by 70' asphalt surface.
Also, we have a bank loan to pay off for the asphalt.
By the time the expenses are subtracted, there won't be a ton of money left over. A small profit is just fine. Over here, Andreas, we call that capitalism.
Would you deny us a fair profit?
You won't have to line up like you Germans do, either. We can fly all we want. I don't know what you call that in Germany, but over here, we call that "freedom".
I'm sure glad we won.
I guess you don't don't bother taking more than a gallon of kerosene to a meet. I will probably use 15 to 20 gallons in the three days.
Craig, you hit the nail on the head. You have always had a great meet. Sorry I missed it last year, but I was in the middle of my move to Montana.
Dave and Cara indicated that they are coming to our meet in Montana on August 4th, 5th, and 6th.
We have a great facility. We feel that it is the best in the western states. Come on up!
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
www.glacierrcers.org
Also, we have a bank loan to pay off for the asphalt.
By the time the expenses are subtracted, there won't be a ton of money left over. A small profit is just fine. Over here, Andreas, we call that capitalism.
Would you deny us a fair profit?
You won't have to line up like you Germans do, either. We can fly all we want. I don't know what you call that in Germany, but over here, we call that "freedom".
I'm sure glad we won.
I guess you don't don't bother taking more than a gallon of kerosene to a meet. I will probably use 15 to 20 gallons in the three days.
Craig, you hit the nail on the head. You have always had a great meet. Sorry I missed it last year, but I was in the middle of my move to Montana.
Dave and Cara indicated that they are coming to our meet in Montana on August 4th, 5th, and 6th.
We have a great facility. We feel that it is the best in the western states. Come on up!
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
www.glacierrcers.org
