Jeffpro

My Feedback: (1)

I was wondering if I could hear from you folks that fly BVM BobCats--especially if you fly on short fields. Here's why.

I learned to fly turbines on an 800-foot runway in Florida last fall. I have since practiced on a 600-foot runway 90 miles from home. That runway is a long drive away, and it's not very good anyway because it's hilly and bumpy and a new housing development near one end of the runway means you have to make short approaches. On top of all that, this runway sits on top of a mountain and nearly always has a 10-15 mph crosswind.

My home club has a 320-foot paved runway. No one has ever flown a turbine there. I'm comfortable with the BobCat and am seriously considering flying it at the home club later this week. With brakes, I can always skid to a stop if I land a little long, and we generally have a 5-10 mph headwind, which increases the effective length of the runway. Plus, I land with a crow setup that makes landings reasonably slow.

Does anyone else regularly fly a BobCat on such a short runway? Is it foolish to even consider it? How many of you BobCat guys would look at 320 feet and say "no way?" Our field is surrounded by lakes and trees, so there's very little margin for error.

ianober

My Feedback: (12)

I would do it. If your worried just set the brakes before you touch down. My buddy's Bobcat fly quite slowly and floats in nice he has landed on a 500 foot runway before and not gotten to the center.

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

Hi Jeff,

I honestly don't think that's a very wise idea. I used to have a bobcat and flew it a lot, it's a great jet for short field but you're really pushing your luck. Anything can happen and sliding your jet sideways isn't the solution as you could cause more damage than you think by doing so. Some may tell you to knock yourself out of course since they're not the ones doing it, my advice is don't especially if your surroundings are what you described.

Just my $0.02

Good luck.

Randy M.

My Feedback: (38)

Mark off 320 on the longer field and give it a shot there first. We regularly fly off 400ft, me with a hot spot and my buddy Scott with a king cat and others. If the conditions are good, the Bobcat should be ok on 320. Is the runoff fairly smooth?

Synthetic

My Feedback: (18)

Jeff,
I agree with JetflyerJ Johnny H. . If everything goes "just right" you could be ok. However, we all know things don't always go "just right" and it leaves you with very little squiggle room.
Don

Jeffpro

My Feedback: (1)

Our runoff is miserable. At either end of the runway, you immediately disappear over a hill. Typically when you go long, your plane flips over, often resulting in a broken vertical stab.

I know a BobCat can be landed and stopped in 320 feet. But you'll have to nail it just about perfect. As someone said, you can't be perfect every time.

Keep the comments coming. I value hearing what everyone has to say.

c/f

My Feedback: (1)

I learned to fly turbines with a Kangaroo and then a Bobcat XL Mercury AMT powered on a 350' home feild paved. Never kangarooed the roo or the bobcat. Always had brakes with a free mix point mix with gear down activation dragging slightly. Spoilerons were also a must.

Silver182

My Feedback: (2)

If trees block the approach end of your runway, I think 400 feet might be too short even at your altitude ASL. I have an older Built-up XL (no flaps) and can land and stop here at 5,500 MSL on a FAA standard day (below 60 degrees OAT)... all day long...in about 400 feet, but I have a very flat approach terrain, and pre-set the brakes!

If you have the newer version BobCat with flaps... crow will help to be sure. Pre-set your brakes on short final, if you can come over the threshold very low.... you should be OK!

Takeoffs should be no problem depending on what turbine you are using. My XL is powered by a P-120 so takeoffs even up here at altitude on a hot day are no problem! Rolling down the runway my XL weighs 25 lbs but goes up like there is no tomorrow.... fact is, I don't need wings after rotation..Approx 300 feet...Pull straight up...gear up... and we go almost out of sight!
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

Jeffpro

My Feedback: (1)

Fortunately, the trees are cut down at both ends of the runway, so you can safely do a long, low, controlled approach. We usually land from the east end, and you go can way out over the lake at that end and bring it in low from 1,000 feet out if you want to.

Here is an aerial view of our runway on Google Maps:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&...,0.008422&z=18

samo

At our home field we fly on a 400 ft paved runway with no problem. I think it all depends on what kind of runway you have, and if its an XL or a composite. With crow you can really slow it down. I am saying this when we have a Titan SE on our composite Bobcat.

Andrew

Jim Cattanach

As said before, mark out the length of your home runway on the longer one & try a lot of landings. If you can do it every time, then ok. One failure & it is going to cost $$$.
It may be worth the extra drive, for the peace of mind when flying & not worrying about the forthcoming landing.

extra 300

My Feedback: (3)

it may be a good idea to install a safety net at one end of the runway (Tennis net) case needed.

Regards.

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

320 ft? That's short. How about pony up another $5K and add 200 hundred more feet? Then you could land anything there. I have been trying to give away a paved runway to more than one club in my area. If your overrun sucks but cleared out, why not try to pave it longer? You'd be the most loved member of the club!

Johnny is probably right however. I'm pretty bold with my bandito's and kingcat. I have been able to land multiple times with out brakes on non windy days, but 320 is a bit short.


Raf

thinwing

same comment again....320 ft is short field by anybodys definition....even with crow your approaches have to be right on the money or risk damage to a/c....so as I see it your choices are find or build a longer field or trade bobcat for something with proven shortfield capabilty...maybe boomerang...anyway goodluck and if you decide to fly off a 300 ft field better stockup on landing gear struts....kpc

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

Bro

JMO but if you're trying to get into that small a strip you're not going to want to do a long slow approach. too flat-too far out to accurately judge closure, there's a high probability you'll zip right on by and rip right through your tires and flex plates.

A technique thats worked for me for years is to try a constantly descending turn from a position abeam your intended point of landing. easier to judge closure due to a shorter straightaway to final thus providing greater control to your intended point of landing.

marking off 320' is not a bad idea either, just to get used to the sight picture.

FWIW, I think my local field is 400ish feet and my bobcat xl (old style) with a P60 handles it easily.

good luck

buck

K-A

Hi, I have flown my Graupner Harpoon 1, whith a P70 from 180ft of grass, it was on the margin but everything went well.

I usually fly it from 300ft of grass at it usally take off at 170ft, the landing I think is the tricky bit, be sure to reduce the speed in due time before touchdown.

The marking suggestion is a good one, then you can estimate the runway.

I also fly my F15 JL whith a P80 from that 300ft of grass and it works ok, whith this aeroplane it is the opposite around, start tricky, landing quite easy.

K-Ã… Sweden,

flyexperimental

I am flying off of 1300 ft grass.Boomerang,Eurosport.I use less than 300 ft.In an earlier thread I was told I use too much runway,my jets must be under powered,or I just do not know how to take-off.If you had a few hundred feet of well taken care of grass at the end for rollout you would be fine .The grass would slow a jet down in 200 ft with no brakes at all.My brakes never get used until I taxi up to concrete pad in front of hanger.I think you could do it as is,but eventually you may have an approach with poor judgment(decide to land when you should have aborted),then the extra few hundred feet of grass will pay for itself.
Joe

Jeffpro

My Feedback: (1)

I wish it were that simple. I'm actually part of a runway improvement committee at our club. The problem is that because the land drops off severely at both ends of the runway, we need several hundred dump trucks full of dirt just to add 100 feet to each end!

I've decided to be smart rather than hasty. Even though I'll have to drive several hours to do it, I'm going to find a long runway, mark off 300 feet, and prove that I can (or cannot) land it and stop it before I try it on our mountaintop.

I *so* envy people who fly on those long, flat runways in Florida and Arizona. I'd be flying bigger and faster jets if I had a place that could handle them. East Tennessee has to be the most runway-deficient place in the U.S. We're right next to the Smoky Mountains, and it's hard to find level land!

pilott28

My Feedback: (27)

I fly a Bobcat regularly on a 450 foot strip. Thoughts:

Several have said it and I agree ... there will be little margin for any error. If you are going to do it:

Don't fly if the weather conditions aren't ideal, maybe a moderate headwind.
You should be very comfortable with the plane first.
A smaller engine like a P70 would be helpful.
Don't try it with a Bobcat that doesn't have flaps. Crow helps.
Leave plenty of fuel for go-rounds.

I would guess that most of the time, I get it stopped in under 300 feet, sometimes less. But that is without the pressure of having to hit it perfectly.

I kinda like the idea of a catch fence in case the worst happens.

You are probably screwed if you have a flame out ... not many outs.

Expect to make repairs fairly frequently. Booms are expensive ... $700 a pair last time I looked.

AndyAndrews

this is the best advice.