Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
06-07-2011, 09:54 PM
#302
Thread Starter
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Thanks Sverrir, great shots! Having said I'm not much of a fan of the scheme, I think I'll change my mind and say it looks superb in those shots 
Cheeky I know but would you mind sending me the full size images? Gonna get a few prints done for the workroom, I know your busy so no rush and thanks again for taking the time to post all these pictures.
Cheers, Alex
Cheeky I know but would you mind sending me the full size images? Gonna get a few prints done for the workroom, I know your busy so no rush and thanks again for taking the time to post all these pictures.
Cheers, Alex
06-07-2011, 10:19 PM
#303
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Sverrir superb camera work my friend, great to see you at Bockley and hope the jet is in one piece!
Alex amazing piece of work, I agree that the scheme is not that good when sitting on the ground on a grey day, but up there in the blue sky it looks the B's - incredible
marcs
Alex amazing piece of work, I agree that the scheme is not that good when sitting on the ground on a grey day, but up there in the blue sky it looks the B's - incredible
marcs
06-07-2011, 11:18 PM
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
I have now completed the 1 hours worth of test flying required in the UK in order to get my certificate to fly this model in public, and am really pleased with how the model is working out. As I normally do, I will try to report my findings warts and all. For a big, complex model this has been a worryingly smooth journey so far, but there are still some issues that I think are worth bringing to light, which may help those existing SM A-10 builders, and also anyone thinking about buying this as a future model.
Its going to be quite a long report I fear, so may take a few posts to get it down on the screen so bare with me. Also bare with me, as I doubt I will get time to proof read it. So there will be even more spelling and grammar mistakes than normal. I just hope its comprehendible.
Alex delivered the model to me, in what must be the closest to ready to fly that I have ever received from any builder. I usually set aside 1-2 days in the workshop when I collect a new model from a builder, as I like to run through things and have a poke around. I am finding that with Alex's builds I am usually done within an evening.
All that I changed on the A-10 was..
I removed the self tapping screws that were supplied by the factory for fitting the ordinance and replaced them with 3 and 4mm Threaded cap heads. I found these attached the pylons far more securely and eliminated any sideward movement that was there with the Self Tapping screws. ( If you do this, dont forget to run some thin CA into the threads before you screw it down for the last time... This add's loads of strength to the plywood under the wing skin )
I replaced the 2x receivers with DSMX 12000's Only because when we started this model, the X technology was not available
I then went through air, and fuel checks and ran the turbines. All of which went really well. The Merlin 140' s do take a while to start up, but when they do the kero start sequence is smooth. I need to lower the start pump voltage on the port side as it sometimes gets a little flame. Northing major, but compared to the Stb side its noticeable.
I throughly recommend that no matter what turbines you are using, that you go for initial starts with no tail plane bolted on... just in case.
The air system ( As always with Alex's build) works flawlessly. The gear is a work or art and works super smoothly. As mentioned before... Its nice to see a heavy model sit correctly on its springs. The last two big models that I have had ( From major suppliers) have bottomed out as soon as they sat on their wheels for the first time, which is never good and mans lots of messing around trying to sort out new springs of different strengths and so forth... This A-10 just sits perfectly!
I spent a long time on the gear fretting about the fact they have no main gear up lock. So when the gear is retracted, it is only the air pressure that keeps them up. It felt to me that it took very little force ( by hand) to pull them down. I was assured that in flight this would not be an issue.
Well looking back at the flight photos, you can clearly see that in some of my flying, the main gear is just starting to pop out... and thats running at 130 Psi in the air tanks at taxi out.. [:@]
Its going to be quite a long report I fear, so may take a few posts to get it down on the screen so bare with me. Also bare with me, as I doubt I will get time to proof read it. So there will be even more spelling and grammar mistakes than normal. I just hope its comprehendible.
Alex delivered the model to me, in what must be the closest to ready to fly that I have ever received from any builder. I usually set aside 1-2 days in the workshop when I collect a new model from a builder, as I like to run through things and have a poke around. I am finding that with Alex's builds I am usually done within an evening.
All that I changed on the A-10 was..
I removed the self tapping screws that were supplied by the factory for fitting the ordinance and replaced them with 3 and 4mm Threaded cap heads. I found these attached the pylons far more securely and eliminated any sideward movement that was there with the Self Tapping screws. ( If you do this, dont forget to run some thin CA into the threads before you screw it down for the last time... This add's loads of strength to the plywood under the wing skin )
I replaced the 2x receivers with DSMX 12000's Only because when we started this model, the X technology was not available
I then went through air, and fuel checks and ran the turbines. All of which went really well. The Merlin 140' s do take a while to start up, but when they do the kero start sequence is smooth. I need to lower the start pump voltage on the port side as it sometimes gets a little flame. Northing major, but compared to the Stb side its noticeable.
I throughly recommend that no matter what turbines you are using, that you go for initial starts with no tail plane bolted on... just in case.
The air system ( As always with Alex's build) works flawlessly. The gear is a work or art and works super smoothly. As mentioned before... Its nice to see a heavy model sit correctly on its springs. The last two big models that I have had ( From major suppliers) have bottomed out as soon as they sat on their wheels for the first time, which is never good and mans lots of messing around trying to sort out new springs of different strengths and so forth... This A-10 just sits perfectly!
I spent a long time on the gear fretting about the fact they have no main gear up lock. So when the gear is retracted, it is only the air pressure that keeps them up. It felt to me that it took very little force ( by hand) to pull them down. I was assured that in flight this would not be an issue.
Well looking back at the flight photos, you can clearly see that in some of my flying, the main gear is just starting to pop out... and thats running at 130 Psi in the air tanks at taxi out.. [:@]
06-07-2011, 11:30 PM
#306
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Another thing that I spent a while contemplating was centre of gravity. I tend to go by a "feel" process of what I think it right for centre of gravity. Sometimes it is blatantly obvious when a model is either tail, or nose heavy. On the SM A-10 Alex had worked really hard at keeping the back end light, and everything as far forward as possible. What I ended up with was a model that was just balancing around the point where it looked about light. After more thought, I decided that I would go for it and try it with no ballast weight.
As it turned out, this was as close to the balance point as expected. In the end I have settled for what I would guess is 0.5 lbs of nose weight. This is more than it should have been due to some repairs to the stab ( More on that later) But for those looking at putting big can P120's and P160' s in this model, be aware.. thats allot of extra weight over what I have in these small Merlin's.. and its a long way back!
As it turned out, this was as close to the balance point as expected. In the end I have settled for what I would guess is 0.5 lbs of nose weight. This is more than it should have been due to some repairs to the stab ( More on that later) But for those looking at putting big can P120's and P160' s in this model, be aware.. thats allot of extra weight over what I have in these small Merlin's.. and its a long way back!
06-07-2011, 11:53 PM
#307
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
The only issue of any sort that I had with the first flight was that I decided to fly the A-10 for the fisrt time after completing my hours worth of flying on my huge ME 262. Firstly, i think any plane would be a slight anti climax after a project of that size and complexity, and that I have been looking forward to for so many years.
Secondly.. although I didnt realise it, I was a bit drained from a long and tiring day. Oh and I almost forgot to mention the 20 Knot direct cross wind ( But that was just a challenge that added to the fun)
First flight was run through quickly, as I wanted to get it back in and do a post flight to make sure all was good. As it turns out, everything was perfect. Apart from the landing, the flight was anon event.
It has the usual A-10 tendency to pin its nose down on the take off roll. No way near as much as the Mibo though. With the Merlin 140's on asphalt, and running almost into wind ( Diagonal across the runway) it rotated in around 40-50 meters at just under full power. As soon as it was climbing it became clear that it was tail heavy. Nothing dangerous, just that sort of tail heavy where the elevator is touchy and it feels like its never trimmed or locked in on the pitch control.
I kept flight one pretty conservative, with only a few basic aeros ( Not that I am ever going to be doing complex aeros with this one... but you get my drift)
Stall tests were done, and I really was stunned at how steady and tame this model is around the stall. Of course, I was doing it into what must have been 30 Knots of head wind, but never the less it was clear that this model had habits that were not befitting to a model of its AUW.
I then popped the Decellerons out to have a tentative play with these. When ever I even think about this function, a flash back of the Mibo A10 at Florida jets falling apart when the Decellerons were fitted comes into my head... Before I knew it I was flying around with them full extended, doing figure of eights... Even a roll with them fully deployed. Of course the extra drag is noticeable, but I never once felt like I lessened roll control. Its going to take me a while to pluck up and land with them, but I cant wait.
A very very slight trim change with flap.. I think it balloons up.. but I will have to check that.
Be very aware, that if you decide to go for a camera pass with all things hanging out.. then you will need power... Lots and lots of power, to overcome all that drag. All good when you know its coming, as the sight and sound of the A-10 in tis configuration is lovely... .Just dont get caught on the wrong side of that drag/ power curve.
On the subject of power.
I am so glad that I went for the Merlin 140's. Like many of the A-10 owners. I contemplated power selection over and over again. With my Mibo, I was really glad that I went the 160 route, despite people telling me that it was over powered and so forth. I have flown the Mibo A10 with smaller turbines, and as with most well designed and constructed aircraft.... They fly great. Its just that I really enjoyed that bit of extra push for the sort of flying that I do. I am sure that if I anted to keep it all scale then a pair of P-70s would fly the A-10 from Skymaster or Mibo.... But what we lack with our models that the full size have is inertia.., Lots, and lots of inertia. Watch any full size putting on a demo flight, and you will see some skilled piloting putting energy management, and inertia to great effect. With our models, we just dont have the mass built in to carry us through one manoeuvre, and into another. So our only choice is to compensate with power.
I try to follow the full size lead of energy management when I fly, but sometimes the energy is just not there... Thats when a few extra pounds of push comes in handy. I know that the SM A-10 will fly with less power than what I have in mine, and I am sure it would fly well. But would I fit my next A-10 out with less????? NOPE! I want to fly with all the A-10 stuff hanging off he wings, I want to fly in a manner that suits what I like and what I do. So with that in mind I would happily go with another pair of Merlin 140's in my next one..
On the flip side... I would be a bit wary of fitting larger turbines. Firstly for weight, and secondly for chance of overpowering and over speeding the model.
Secondly.. although I didnt realise it, I was a bit drained from a long and tiring day. Oh and I almost forgot to mention the 20 Knot direct cross wind ( But that was just a challenge that added to the fun)
First flight was run through quickly, as I wanted to get it back in and do a post flight to make sure all was good. As it turns out, everything was perfect. Apart from the landing, the flight was anon event.
It has the usual A-10 tendency to pin its nose down on the take off roll. No way near as much as the Mibo though. With the Merlin 140's on asphalt, and running almost into wind ( Diagonal across the runway) it rotated in around 40-50 meters at just under full power. As soon as it was climbing it became clear that it was tail heavy. Nothing dangerous, just that sort of tail heavy where the elevator is touchy and it feels like its never trimmed or locked in on the pitch control.
I kept flight one pretty conservative, with only a few basic aeros ( Not that I am ever going to be doing complex aeros with this one... but you get my drift)
Stall tests were done, and I really was stunned at how steady and tame this model is around the stall. Of course, I was doing it into what must have been 30 Knots of head wind, but never the less it was clear that this model had habits that were not befitting to a model of its AUW.
I then popped the Decellerons out to have a tentative play with these. When ever I even think about this function, a flash back of the Mibo A10 at Florida jets falling apart when the Decellerons were fitted comes into my head... Before I knew it I was flying around with them full extended, doing figure of eights... Even a roll with them fully deployed. Of course the extra drag is noticeable, but I never once felt like I lessened roll control. Its going to take me a while to pluck up and land with them, but I cant wait.
A very very slight trim change with flap.. I think it balloons up.. but I will have to check that.
Be very aware, that if you decide to go for a camera pass with all things hanging out.. then you will need power... Lots and lots of power, to overcome all that drag. All good when you know its coming, as the sight and sound of the A-10 in tis configuration is lovely... .Just dont get caught on the wrong side of that drag/ power curve.
On the subject of power.
I am so glad that I went for the Merlin 140's. Like many of the A-10 owners. I contemplated power selection over and over again. With my Mibo, I was really glad that I went the 160 route, despite people telling me that it was over powered and so forth. I have flown the Mibo A10 with smaller turbines, and as with most well designed and constructed aircraft.... They fly great. Its just that I really enjoyed that bit of extra push for the sort of flying that I do. I am sure that if I anted to keep it all scale then a pair of P-70s would fly the A-10 from Skymaster or Mibo.... But what we lack with our models that the full size have is inertia.., Lots, and lots of inertia. Watch any full size putting on a demo flight, and you will see some skilled piloting putting energy management, and inertia to great effect. With our models, we just dont have the mass built in to carry us through one manoeuvre, and into another. So our only choice is to compensate with power.
I try to follow the full size lead of energy management when I fly, but sometimes the energy is just not there... Thats when a few extra pounds of push comes in handy. I know that the SM A-10 will fly with less power than what I have in mine, and I am sure it would fly well. But would I fit my next A-10 out with less????? NOPE! I want to fly with all the A-10 stuff hanging off he wings, I want to fly in a manner that suits what I like and what I do. So with that in mind I would happily go with another pair of Merlin 140's in my next one..
On the flip side... I would be a bit wary of fitting larger turbines. Firstly for weight, and secondly for chance of overpowering and over speeding the model.
06-08-2011, 07:22 AM
#308
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Great info Ali. Please keep the feedback coming. I wonder if this model could benefit from a hydraulic system on the retracts like the one Hausl does with some self locking valves.....would fix the gear sagging problem and add to what seems to be quite a detailed model. How does it compare to the Mibo A10 in your opinion?
Regards,
Craig.
Regards,
Craig.
06-08-2011, 07:39 AM
#309
Thread Starter
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
I know Al isn't convinced but I reckon adding more volume will help, perhaps 1 or 2 large air cans, there's plenty of space in the thing. I suppose we shall find out soon enough.
06-08-2011, 08:06 AM
#310
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Yeah I guess it depends on how much pressure drop you are getting from the first retraction cycle. If the gear uses a fair bit of air then additional tanks might help. I stick as many as I can get in there...good insurance and air does not weigh much!
I still reckon hydraulics on the gear would befit this model.
I still reckon hydraulics on the gear would befit this model.
06-08-2011, 09:05 AM
#311
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Thank you Ali for the report! very very encouraging!!! Please when you have the time can you tell us more on where is the new CG? ATVs on the moving surfaces and expo you are using! I hope I am not asking too much from the Ali’s fan club!
I guess I will need to order those Merlins from Dreamworks RC ? Or just wait for the new 120 or 160RX…… coming up? that would be nice!!!
Any video captured when Ali was flying his SM A10?
Best,
Gonzalo
I guess I will need to order those Merlins from Dreamworks RC ? Or just wait for the new 120 or 160RX…… coming up? that would be nice!!!
Any video captured when Ali was flying his SM A10?
Best,
Gonzalo
06-08-2011, 01:58 PM
#313
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Hola Gonzalo, Gerardo told me that you are really enjoying building your A-10. Congratulations.
On the subject of the turbines, I am strongly against de-rating the engines on a twin engine airplane.
I think that there would be nothing more frustrating than needing that extra power during a flame out situation, and not being able to use it.
A switch that limits the throttle is one solution, but then again, it would be one more thing to worry about during a stressful situation.
Power management is the key !
Don't forget that you are doubling the probability of an engine failure when using two engines. So, a single engine has to be able to get you out of trouble easily.
Regarding engine size selection: compare the weights. I think that there isn't that much difference between them (within the power range that you need), and they are not that far back from the CG as it appears.
I am using a couple of 160's on my MIBO. And believe me, it is just perfect.
You can fly slow, and still maintain your speed during the vertical portion of the maneuvers. Feels like "torque". Like a Jeep in low gear !!!
I have 4 x 4000mA duralites in the nose, and didn't need any extra ballast. (It is not the same plane, I know. I just mention this as a reference)
Since you already have a 160, I would just get another one. And go fly that beauty asap !!!!!!! LOL.
Take care; and looking forward to see you at your event.
Jack
On the subject of the turbines, I am strongly against de-rating the engines on a twin engine airplane.
I think that there would be nothing more frustrating than needing that extra power during a flame out situation, and not being able to use it.
A switch that limits the throttle is one solution, but then again, it would be one more thing to worry about during a stressful situation.
Power management is the key !
Don't forget that you are doubling the probability of an engine failure when using two engines. So, a single engine has to be able to get you out of trouble easily.
Regarding engine size selection: compare the weights. I think that there isn't that much difference between them (within the power range that you need), and they are not that far back from the CG as it appears.
I am using a couple of 160's on my MIBO. And believe me, it is just perfect.
You can fly slow, and still maintain your speed during the vertical portion of the maneuvers. Feels like "torque". Like a Jeep in low gear !!!
I have 4 x 4000mA duralites in the nose, and didn't need any extra ballast. (It is not the same plane, I know. I just mention this as a reference)
Since you already have a 160, I would just get another one. And go fly that beauty asap !!!!!!! LOL.
Take care; and looking forward to see you at your event.
Jack
06-08-2011, 04:52 PM
#314
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Thank you Jack! very good points! I just want to make sure I keep the weight to a minimum with the best power performance ratio.
My plan is to wait a little bit more before I decide on the turbines... lots to do to get the A10 ready so I have some time.
I am really looking forward to see you at our event!
Un abrazo,
Gonzalo
My plan is to wait a little bit more before I decide on the turbines... lots to do to get the A10 ready so I have some time.
I am really looking forward to see you at our event!
Un abrazo,
Gonzalo
06-13-2011, 05:34 AM
#315
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Back to this one while its still in my head... Some negative aspects.
I am finding that I have to run a considerable amount of up elevator to fly level. I know its a tough one on the A-10 as the trim does go out slightly as you increase power, but even with the Mibo and two 160's I could find a setting where the plane seemed happily trimmed. On the Skymaster one, I find the same setting ( Around 3/4 power) and it seems solid enough on pitch, and flies as level as I would like. Changing power settings does effect trim change, but only slightly, but no more or less then I remember with the Mibo. The difference is that when I look at the stab and the elevators, the SM A-10 seems to be running much more up trim to hold level.
I would think that its a long way nose heavy, but it does not fly that way ( Inverted is nice, and pitch control seems balanced) I will have to play with weights a bit more. Just be aware of this on the first flights ( Run the elevators slightly up to start with)
On the subject of balance.... I found that running with no nose weight the model was flyable, but seemed a tad touchy on pitch control. When it became really apparent was on finals. The first landing was attempt was a real roller coaster, where I found the model at some ugly angles of attack as I PIO'ed ( Pilot induced oscillation) all the way down the runway. Luckily I was able to power up and fly round and make a better job of the second attempt, and luckily I managed to avoid spanking the runway. I remember seeing a Mibo do exactly the same thing in Dubai a few years ago. I attributed this at the time to the model being tail heavy, so I guessed the same was the case with mine. As I mentioned before I added a bunch of lead, and this made things much better. It still does have the desire to ballon up sometimes on final, which is always disconcerting, as adding down elevator at that height never feels right. Just be aware of it, and its pretty straight forward to drive the A-10 onto its mains. I may try more nose weight and see how that works. Either way.. when I get to a centre of gravity that I am happy with, I will try to update this thread. One thing this PIO did demonstrate was how friendly the A-10 is on and around the stall. I dont know of many other jets that would get as slow as I had my A-10, especially with that AOA!!
The main gear does droop down under G load ( As I worried it might) Not sure what the solution is here. Alex seems to think that fitting another air bottle and increasing the volume may help. This is an easy fix that I will try to get done this week.
I really dont want to convert to hydraulic. If I have to, I may look at the fitment of some servo or air locks in the mains. My big 262 has them and they work really well.
As I mentioned earlier, I had an issue with my retract valve cycling the gear away upon switching on. At the time, I thought that I got away with just some light scuffs to the underside of the fins, and some ordinance damage. Pretty impressive considering the weight of the model dumping down onto tarmac. later investigation showed that I was not that lucky.
The impact had split the seam on the underside of the fins. This was no big deal a fix. What was the worry was the damage to the stab. A close look showed that not only was there a crack in the lower skin, but I had also managed to break both front and rear spars. [X(]
I am really not sure there is anyway to protect against this happening, as that really is allot of load dropping onto that tail. I can understand SM making the tail as light as possible, as any extra material added to that tailplane is going to be a real pain to balance out at the nose. Just be very much aware of the tailplane if you like me have a gear issue, or maybe have to belly land your A-10. Check and double check the stab before flying again. Also I would advise against pushing the model by its fin. This is a tough one to remember, as the fin is just about the perfect hand hold from which to push your A-10 along the ground. The problem is that this puts quite a torsional loading on the tail, and I fear that if the model was to get stuck ( in lets say a pot hole, or against the lip of a runway) and you are pushing with enough force to move a 50 lbs + model then that load is going to go straight down to the tail.... which is never going to work out for the best.
I am finding that I have to run a considerable amount of up elevator to fly level. I know its a tough one on the A-10 as the trim does go out slightly as you increase power, but even with the Mibo and two 160's I could find a setting where the plane seemed happily trimmed. On the Skymaster one, I find the same setting ( Around 3/4 power) and it seems solid enough on pitch, and flies as level as I would like. Changing power settings does effect trim change, but only slightly, but no more or less then I remember with the Mibo. The difference is that when I look at the stab and the elevators, the SM A-10 seems to be running much more up trim to hold level.
I would think that its a long way nose heavy, but it does not fly that way ( Inverted is nice, and pitch control seems balanced) I will have to play with weights a bit more. Just be aware of this on the first flights ( Run the elevators slightly up to start with)
On the subject of balance.... I found that running with no nose weight the model was flyable, but seemed a tad touchy on pitch control. When it became really apparent was on finals. The first landing was attempt was a real roller coaster, where I found the model at some ugly angles of attack as I PIO'ed ( Pilot induced oscillation) all the way down the runway. Luckily I was able to power up and fly round and make a better job of the second attempt, and luckily I managed to avoid spanking the runway. I remember seeing a Mibo do exactly the same thing in Dubai a few years ago. I attributed this at the time to the model being tail heavy, so I guessed the same was the case with mine. As I mentioned before I added a bunch of lead, and this made things much better. It still does have the desire to ballon up sometimes on final, which is always disconcerting, as adding down elevator at that height never feels right. Just be aware of it, and its pretty straight forward to drive the A-10 onto its mains. I may try more nose weight and see how that works. Either way.. when I get to a centre of gravity that I am happy with, I will try to update this thread. One thing this PIO did demonstrate was how friendly the A-10 is on and around the stall. I dont know of many other jets that would get as slow as I had my A-10, especially with that AOA!!
The main gear does droop down under G load ( As I worried it might) Not sure what the solution is here. Alex seems to think that fitting another air bottle and increasing the volume may help. This is an easy fix that I will try to get done this week.
I really dont want to convert to hydraulic. If I have to, I may look at the fitment of some servo or air locks in the mains. My big 262 has them and they work really well.
As I mentioned earlier, I had an issue with my retract valve cycling the gear away upon switching on. At the time, I thought that I got away with just some light scuffs to the underside of the fins, and some ordinance damage. Pretty impressive considering the weight of the model dumping down onto tarmac. later investigation showed that I was not that lucky.
The impact had split the seam on the underside of the fins. This was no big deal a fix. What was the worry was the damage to the stab. A close look showed that not only was there a crack in the lower skin, but I had also managed to break both front and rear spars. [X(]
I am really not sure there is anyway to protect against this happening, as that really is allot of load dropping onto that tail. I can understand SM making the tail as light as possible, as any extra material added to that tailplane is going to be a real pain to balance out at the nose. Just be very much aware of the tailplane if you like me have a gear issue, or maybe have to belly land your A-10. Check and double check the stab before flying again. Also I would advise against pushing the model by its fin. This is a tough one to remember, as the fin is just about the perfect hand hold from which to push your A-10 along the ground. The problem is that this puts quite a torsional loading on the tail, and I fear that if the model was to get stuck ( in lets say a pot hole, or against the lip of a runway) and you are pushing with enough force to move a 50 lbs + model then that load is going to go straight down to the tail.... which is never going to work out for the best.
06-13-2011, 06:24 AM
#321
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Positives.
Everything has worked from the offset. Which for such a complex plane is a testimony to the kit and the builder. The decelalorns have remained as solid as when the first flight, and even when fully deployed leave the aircraft totally controllable and agile enough for mild aerobatics.
The slow speed handling and stall, are totally non befitting of a model of this A-10s weight. I have had models of half this weight stall earlier and more aggressively. Apart from the droop, the gear is stunning. Smooth operation ( Even at a high speed when taking off and cleaning up) It has absorbed 8 landings ( Most from a short grass strip) so far that have varied from nice right through to cringe worthy.. all of them the gear has taken in its stride, and never once bottoming out.
The model takes off and rotates nice and easily. I think the strong nose wheel spring helps with this, as it does not compress under acceleration and lower the AOA. Controls feel nice and harmonised at the moment. I tend to fly with quite a sensitive set up, and was worried that maybe there was not enough aileron movement, but in flight it has worked out as ample. It feels nice and solid in flight, with little to no flexing evident.. even in the harder more G intensive manoeuvres. You really feel the extra lift generated by the flower flap system. At full defection, it feels as if a cushion of helium under the model at slow speeds.
A few have commented that they are not a fan of the scheme. Most compare it to my Mibo. I have to admit that at first I was not a fan, but after Alex did his magic with the Washes and weathering, and seeing it in the air, I am liking it more and more. I like the fact its a scale scheme ( Which my Mibo never was) Sure.. It does not stand out as well in the sky as the Arctic aggressor scheme did, but I like just the same.
The Grumania tailpipes are working a treat. Even at full power for sustained periods on the ground, both nacelles are stone cold. I love the way the anodised orange bell mouths reflect in the thrust pipes from behind and look at some angles like a hot turbine!
I cannot feel any detrimental effect from the turbofans. I would quite like to fly without them one time just to get an idea of the difference.. but once you have seen it taxing toward you with them spinning, it becomes hard to accept anything else, and to see two anodised front cowlings of a model turbine poking out through the front is just..... [:'(]
Same applies to the ordinance. As much as I would like to fly without it all to get a comparison, I just cant bring myself to do it, as an A-10 without the hardware hanging from the wings is just plain ugly
I am looking forward to my display certificate to come through, so I can get some more flights and hopefully some video of my A-10. I will be sure to update as I go along.
Regards Al
Everything has worked from the offset. Which for such a complex plane is a testimony to the kit and the builder. The decelalorns have remained as solid as when the first flight, and even when fully deployed leave the aircraft totally controllable and agile enough for mild aerobatics.
The slow speed handling and stall, are totally non befitting of a model of this A-10s weight. I have had models of half this weight stall earlier and more aggressively. Apart from the droop, the gear is stunning. Smooth operation ( Even at a high speed when taking off and cleaning up) It has absorbed 8 landings ( Most from a short grass strip) so far that have varied from nice right through to cringe worthy.. all of them the gear has taken in its stride, and never once bottoming out.
The model takes off and rotates nice and easily. I think the strong nose wheel spring helps with this, as it does not compress under acceleration and lower the AOA. Controls feel nice and harmonised at the moment. I tend to fly with quite a sensitive set up, and was worried that maybe there was not enough aileron movement, but in flight it has worked out as ample. It feels nice and solid in flight, with little to no flexing evident.. even in the harder more G intensive manoeuvres. You really feel the extra lift generated by the flower flap system. At full defection, it feels as if a cushion of helium under the model at slow speeds.
A few have commented that they are not a fan of the scheme. Most compare it to my Mibo. I have to admit that at first I was not a fan, but after Alex did his magic with the Washes and weathering, and seeing it in the air, I am liking it more and more. I like the fact its a scale scheme ( Which my Mibo never was) Sure.. It does not stand out as well in the sky as the Arctic aggressor scheme did, but I like just the same.
The Grumania tailpipes are working a treat. Even at full power for sustained periods on the ground, both nacelles are stone cold. I love the way the anodised orange bell mouths reflect in the thrust pipes from behind and look at some angles like a hot turbine!
I cannot feel any detrimental effect from the turbofans. I would quite like to fly without them one time just to get an idea of the difference.. but once you have seen it taxing toward you with them spinning, it becomes hard to accept anything else, and to see two anodised front cowlings of a model turbine poking out through the front is just..... [:'(]
Same applies to the ordinance. As much as I would like to fly without it all to get a comparison, I just cant bring myself to do it, as an A-10 without the hardware hanging from the wings is just plain ugly
I am looking forward to my display certificate to come through, so I can get some more flights and hopefully some video of my A-10. I will be sure to update as I go along.
Regards Al
06-13-2011, 11:16 AM
#322
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: AIX EN PROVENCE, FRANCE, METROPOLITAN
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Hello Ali
I don't fly a SM but a Mibo ( gen4 w/P160SX ) and I have the same trouble as you describe : the power is decreasing the pich. I'm unable to find a correct mix to cope with this. The mix should be corrected of the air speed ( too much complicated) .
The real aircraft has the engine flux pointing slightly to the up ( and to the exterior to reduce the disymetry in case of an engine flame out ).
I'm buiding a second A10 and I modify the engine fixation as you can see on the photo.
Do you think that will make the pich default desapear ?
Best regards
Stan
I don't fly a SM but a Mibo ( gen4 w/P160SX ) and I have the same trouble as you describe : the power is decreasing the pich. I'm unable to find a correct mix to cope with this. The mix should be corrected of the air speed ( too much complicated) .
The real aircraft has the engine flux pointing slightly to the up ( and to the exterior to reduce the disymetry in case of an engine flame out ).
I'm buiding a second A10 and I modify the engine fixation as you can see on the photo.
Do you think that will make the pich default desapear ?
Best regards
Stan
06-13-2011, 01:21 PM
#323
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RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Hi Stan,
I had the same power set up in my Mibo and the turbines were straight in between the turbine rails ( No angle) and did not have the same issue. I cant help but think it is as much a centre of gravity issue as it is thrust line related.
Regards Al
I had the same power set up in my Mibo and the turbines were straight in between the turbine rails ( No angle) and did not have the same issue. I cant help but think it is as much a centre of gravity issue as it is thrust line related.
Regards Al
06-16-2011, 07:56 PM
#324
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Hi Ali
Thank you for your comments.
Regarding level flight of A-10,I already made more than 20 times of flights on prototype.
To find out correct angle of stab,i installed two K80s and i even tested the angle of tailpipes.I know you didn't use the standard tailpipe factory supplied with A-10 kit,Li Kai didn't use it,either.
Li Kai installed two 17kg thrust turbines and custom tailpipes he made by himself.
After times of test flying,we found out the problem is custom made tailpipe.Currently in taiwan,another A-10 is installed with two K-170s and tailpipes made by Li Kai.Li Kai found out 1-2mm elevator up trim is needed when flying from 1/3 power to full power.But after throttle back suddenly,A-10 will climb up automatically.
This means too much elevator trim is made during flight.When i tested production version of A-10,the angle of stab is correct and no elevator trim is needed at all,which is same for two EDF A-10s i filed.So,please adjust angle of tailpipe you use now.Or,you can use the standard pipe we supplied with kit.
new test flight Video in Taiwan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rPTMKwSxMw
Best Regards
Anton
Thank you for your comments.
Regarding level flight of A-10,I already made more than 20 times of flights on prototype.
To find out correct angle of stab,i installed two K80s and i even tested the angle of tailpipes.I know you didn't use the standard tailpipe factory supplied with A-10 kit,Li Kai didn't use it,either.
Li Kai installed two 17kg thrust turbines and custom tailpipes he made by himself.
After times of test flying,we found out the problem is custom made tailpipe.Currently in taiwan,another A-10 is installed with two K-170s and tailpipes made by Li Kai.Li Kai found out 1-2mm elevator up trim is needed when flying from 1/3 power to full power.But after throttle back suddenly,A-10 will climb up automatically.
This means too much elevator trim is made during flight.When i tested production version of A-10,the angle of stab is correct and no elevator trim is needed at all,which is same for two EDF A-10s i filed.So,please adjust angle of tailpipe you use now.Or,you can use the standard pipe we supplied with kit.
new test flight Video in Taiwan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rPTMKwSxMw
Best Regards
Anton
06-17-2011, 12:35 AM
#325
Thread Starter
RE: Skymaster 1:6 A10 Build
Hi Anton
The new pipes I've installed are the same angle as the kit pipes, I was careful not to change anything, I even measured the angle on both pipes side by side which was the same. I found the old pipes exited the nacelle perpendicular to the rear most part of the nacelle and so do the custom made Grumania pipes, They are however much longer as the kit pipes were not long enough to work with the Merlin 140's. When I see Ali's A10 next I'll have a close look at the pipe installation and compare it to the kit pipes.
Cheers, Alex
The new pipes I've installed are the same angle as the kit pipes, I was careful not to change anything, I even measured the angle on both pipes side by side which was the same. I found the old pipes exited the nacelle perpendicular to the rear most part of the nacelle and so do the custom made Grumania pipes, They are however much longer as the kit pipes were not long enough to work with the Merlin 140's. When I see Ali's A10 next I'll have a close look at the pipe installation and compare it to the kit pipes.
Cheers, Alex
