J-MICHAEL

JPEE


Excellent job on the loops with the T-600...!! What are ya crazy....?? ! Wow.... Go get em' tiger...! [8D] Cool on the new smoky plane ! At least you get to piddle with a balsa jobber, to see kinda what its all about huh ? Maybe do an electric conversion ?? !

JPEE

Hey Guy's,
I picked up the FREE plane today. It is a balsa with a gas/nitro motor? The guy has had it stored so long he forgot to say he pulled out, servos, linkage rods, rx. He did pull off the motor which looks new and had that in a box so I set it place for the pictures. I have no interest in gas/nitro so I may.............. install blade 400 servos I have and then see if and extra T-28 electric motor I have can be adapted with a motor mount. There is plenty-oh room in fuse from the underside to put in a 3S pack and ESC and rx. So we'll see. I am not jumping on this but it is a rainy day project forsure. I took a close up of the motor, perhaps you guys know something about it.
I just can't believe someone through this in the trash?? This guy that found itis a glider pilot and makes his planes.
tried loading more pic's but they are freezing up at RCU..........I'll come back later
JPEE

evdreamer

JPEE,

It looks like a .15 Nitro engine. Gas engines are usually in planes with a 60"+ wingspan. It looks like its in good condition.

I have been working on my current limiter. I think I got the firmware to work, but my hardware isn't working like it should, so I have been redesigning that.

Nick

JPEE

Hi Nick,
Yes there is a 15 on the side of the engine block. Like I said, it has compression and looks as clean as the date it was made. I am going to talk to the "old timers" at my field that are the fliers and see what they say the motor is worth. That doesn't change me mind, I am going to make it and electric flyer.

Is your current limiter the ESC you were working or is this something else. If something else, how would it be applied in industry? I clearly understadn the firmware point but what hardware failure is showing up?

You saw or at least heard my 600 loops. You heard when I spiked the heli to build up some speed to do the loop it whined and clearly the head even at 100% wide open is to slow. I have a 10 tooth pinion so do you think I should try a 13?

Thanks Nick .............JPEE

J-MICHAEL

JPEE ~

I love that plane ! WOW.... Yeah, you should be able to convert it no problem.... If anything Jay, or Vic could offer some insight on how possibly with what prop/ motor etc, on how... Or the best option would to post it over on the electric forum's for the planks here. Watch doing it on the nitro side, as they'll frown on doing it most likely, as the polluter guys seem pretty stuck on Nitro even though someday it will most likely be a memory and a thing of the past... (ask Al Gore)....LMAO...

I've seen a few gents with a few different planes convert there's to electric... An outrunner motor would even offer more torque than an inrunner I imagine. I really, really like that plane though ! Very cool, and I'am so pleased you get to tinker with a balsa jobber. Both have there pro's and con's as far as the balsa planes and the foamies as I have both. You'll see.....

Yeah on your T-600 it sounded like my Logo when I crashed doing that loop attempt when I was running the 5-cell, and struggling to do one also. But when I've ran my 6-cell as you've seen in my Exposure Room video of the Logo doing its first loops, that Logo could do those loops with ease, and VERY tight among that. That's what got me in trouble trying the 5-cell's, as they just didn't provide me enough power battery wise as I was use to when I was running the 6-cells in her and it got me into trouble then with that crash...! Eh...!

Raising your pinion size up a bit might help, but it could also be that maybe your batts are struggling also.... Just a thought... I know using the 6-cells in the Trex 600 is a lot of strain to them as I've read, and most have sinced moved on to 8-cells and it really helps open things up much more and being more effecient. But still, that 600 should have been able to pull off a loop with the 6-cell batts. You'll probably be fine in trying to bump the pinion up I'am guessing....

I've posted this more than I should, but if you were curious on the diffs, here is the Logo using the 6-cell battery :


http://exposureroom.com/members/J-MI...748faa9166959/


Anf then here it is with the 5-cell battery.... A big diff on how the Logo performed without a doubt... The 5-cells are definately a sport flying battery, while the 6-cells are more for doing the other stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlZE0vZ61Fk



Oh yeah ! I did my first barrel rolls in the Trex 500 today, as I was at the field testing out my tail in trying to get it more dialed in. It didn't do to bad for being a heavy pig !



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3RPzMimFd4



Cheers,

~ Jeff

evdreamer

JPEE,

Yeah the current limiter is for the ESC I am working on. I am using a sense resistor to detect the current and the Voltage change is very small across that, so I needed to design an amplifier to bring it up to 5V. Well my amplifier was only changing by 20mV and it was supposed to swing from 0-5V. I redesigned the amplifier and it is working correctly, but my program isn't limiting the current very good. So I still need to tweek that.

I don't know the Kv rating of your motor, but I am guessing it is the 1650Kv Align motor. With a 11T pinion you would have around 2000RPM's at full throttle and that is the same headspeed I goverend mine to. With the 13T pinion the headspeed would be around 2000RPM's at 85% throttle giving you plenty of head room for when the motor is loaded down.

Jeff,

Cool you did some rolls with the 500!

Nick

J-MICHAEL

Nick ~

Lol.... Yeah its just my 500 is one heavy pig, as I could tell trying those rolls... But all still so fun. What a big diff between the stock motor I used for that flight compared to the Scorpion motor though... Yeah, and also your T-600 is running A123 batts huh ? And it seems to have plenty of power for even more demading moves.. So JPEE should bump his pinion size up huh ? His headspeed sure sounded wicked though when he popped that baby in idle up though ! I was like oh yeah............ Daddy's back at the field boys.... (JPEE)...[8D]


JPEE ~

Here is one area that guys convert there glow to electric here on RCU, and it might help you a tad to gather some intel...



http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/foru...smode_1/tt.htm



~ Jeff

evdreamer

Jeff,

Yeah my 600 battery weighs about 2lbs. The only thing it struggles with is Tic Tocs and Rainbows. I don't know what his motor's Kv rating was, so I was making an educated guess on bumping the pinion up.

Nick

J-MICHAEL

Nick ~

Yeah I know nothing about your 600's and such... I just know that JPEE has a bigger sack than me when it comes to just going for it ! () Remember that "Motocalc" link ya gave me awhile back ?? Here is another one I just came across for our planes in which might also help JPEE configure of what to use for his new toy :



http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp



~ Jeff

rotarydoc

Ivan,

Before I forget, thanks for the pic of the 450 Pro motor...mine is competely different...take a look see...

This was the one that failed very early, the replacement they sent was identical. I have not seen one like in your pic...?

Glenn

J-MICHAEL

Glenn ~

I'am guessing that because of all the probs they had with the first edition of those motors from bearing failures and overheating probs, they quickly then came out with a V2 version perhaps ?? ! I guess you got lucky on getting one of the free replacements of the older stock there still trying to offload maybe ?? ! Yikes.... I'd ask them why............ [&:]

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

I was kinda slackin' all weekend, didn't do too much flying...

Got pretty pissed/disgusted with the B400 on Saturday, went to go flying, and spooled it up, and it started it's old ways again, with the boom support humming away...I just landed it, put it away in the car, and flew the 450 Pro...and one flight just testing the 500, seeing about that strange ESC startup issue I had with it last time out...only flew in the small baseball field, which is like useless....the bigger field was looking promising, until I looked closer, and then a guy in a go-kart was riding on the field...came back a bit later, and some guys were shooting BB/pellet guns at signs in the school parking lot...not a place I wanted to be...so I just packed everything up, and did something else the rest of the weekend.

I did get the B400 back out earlier today, and gave some thought to what Ivan pointed out, about the wiring being bundled on the right boom support, so I moved it over to the left one, and then made a half ass boom brace out of a wire tie...just to give them some tension...

Took it out, and it was alot better, but still sounded weird, and the tail fin was still a blur...

I think I found something though...and it seems so weird...the other day, it was flying great...and the tracking was fine, etc. I look at the tracking at the beginning of most, if not all flights, once the heli is in the air...Rob taught me that, after one time, when I thought the 500 was all setup, and the tracking was out in flight, I had set it on the ground...

At any rate...I decided to take a look at the blade tracking the OLD FASHIONED way, at least to me... by checking it while the heli is still on the ground, and light on the skids...and sure enough, it was out...quite a bit actually...

I took and adjusted one link, and got it perfect (totally luck!!), then spooled it up, and into a hover...and it was super smooth, buzzing/humming/vibrating tailboom supports were totally gone...

I am wondering if it's something with the Eflite woodies, maybe they don't do well at higher headspeeds, and act weird from day to day (temperature, humidity, etc)??

I never used to have these problems, but I didn't run this high of a headspeed back in those days either...

At any rate, I flew the entire next pack...and besides getting blown around in the wind, it flew like a champ!

So, all is not lost....I'll try again this week, and I'll also try those new Helidirect FRP blades I just got, maybe they'll be more consistent....

Hope everyone else is doing well....

Nice flying guys, Jeff, with the rolls....and JPEE with the loops!! Keep up the great flying...

Glenn

9sec240

Glenn, I think that they were having issues with the SP motors (as you experienced) so they switched to the M motor. The M motor has a bunch of power on a 14T pinion. What size pinion did yours come with?

9sec240

Glenn, in my observations with the B400 (I have had three of them), I have found that they fly OK stock. You can put better electronics on it (ie servos and gyro) and they fly a little better. The one thing the B400 did not like was more head speed. More head speeds just brings out the weaknesses in the heli. The tail is designed very poorly. When I put the 11T pinion on mine, the tail would go off balance, the tail shaft would flex and it would get way worse and turn the whole tail to a blur. You could overcome this by turning the throttle curve down but then what is the point of a bigger pinion?? LOL... I just don't think you can polish this turd.

Sell both your B400s... sell all your E-Flite CNC... Buy a new Align 450 Sport and report back!!!

evdreamer

Glenn,

I hope the blade tracking was the cause of the problems and not something hidden again.

I only got to fly once during my week and a half break from school.[&o] Hopefully I can fly at least once this week.

Trying to make my ESC limit the current is turning out to be a lot harder than I thought it would be, so I worked on a soft start feature and I got that working pretty good.

Nick

J-MICHAEL

Glenn ~

Yeah I don't blame ya there.... I could totally see where that would go.... They would be like Ooooooh ! Look at that heli.... A moving target ! Sorry your weekend was kinda tough though. Eh..... Yeah, like you commented on my video just a bit ago, nobody is at my fields because I'am there usually about 7:00 A.M. in the morning... So not much traffic there. Its nice that way, I don't want to be there entertaining people and answering questions and such...

Yeah that motor you have is the older version. Almost all vendors including Helidirect no longer stock or carry it. Its been replaced.... It still bugs me they sent you another older version. Just go burn it up, and get a newer one.... You know there customer service is top notch, so maybe ya don't even need to do that. Maybe just ask if you can swap out now so you won't get another headache later just in case ya know ?? But hey....... If ya need help on burning it up, let me know... Send it my way, and I'll throw a 17t on that baby, and we'll get her toasty ! I'll help ya out... What R friends for right ?? !! At least Align fixed the problem ASAP with the motor situation... Innovative design (Scorpion) thinks its funny to just keep coming out with newer versions of there motors and still use crapola bearings ! LMAO twice there !

I'am glad your liking the 450 Pro though... Ivan gots me hooked on the darn thing now ! Eh....! I actually want the Sport model though, as I don't want to hassle with the torque tube scenario and such. With my type of flying I wouldn't see a diff I'am thinking between the two models.

Thanks for checking in...

9sec240

Hey Nick.. being the electrical guru here.. What benefits would I see with a 4S over the 3S on my 450 Pro?

evdreamer

Ivan,

The battery would be cooler and you would get a little longer flight times. You would get more power if the 4S battery supplied the same amount of current as the 3S one did. You would need an external BEC because you would fry the internal one.

Nick

9sec240

As I see it, it seems that there is more power available on a 4S than 3S based on the math.

Using higher voltage, you pull less amps. I believe that people say this is more efficient and not as hard on the electronics. Motors, ESCs and batteries come down cooler.

When the extra power is not needed, you pull less amps which allows you to run smaller mAh batteries for the same amount of flight time. If my assumptions are correct, a 2200mAh 3S is equal to a 1650mAh 4S.

2200mAh 30C 3S would have a maximum of 66A available at 11.1V for a total of 732 watts...

1800mAh 30C 4S would have a maximum of 54A available at 14.8V for a total of 799 watts...

If these assumptions are correct.. why wouldn't this be a common mod for a 450 heli?

rotarydoc

Ivan,

Yeah, trust me, the thought of ditching the B400's alltogether crossed my mind more than once this weekend...[X(]

I think you are correct though, back in the day, when I was noobin', I never ran high head speeds, so none of these gremlins were presenting themselves...now that I'm wanting more headspeed, the issues seem to be getting worse all the time....

I dunno, the flying season is kinda wrapping up here before too long anyways, and I do actually like the way the B400's fly when they are doing well...not a sweet as the 450 Pro of course...but nice enough for my skill level at this point in time...

Nick,

Sorry you only got to fly once, hope you can get more flying in, so you don't go crazy...lol..

Cool on the progress on the soft start...hope you can get the limiter working soon...

Thanks on the well wishes on the B400, I have so many parts, and know it inside and out, I hate to give up on them...

Jeff,

Yeah, that would help explain it...I don't think ANYTHING would get me up out of bed at 7AM....[X(]

I guess my fields would be pretty empty then too...lol..

This motor is fine with me....makes plenty of power...but it does run hot...the bearings are fine so far in this one...

Yeah, Assurance RC did do me good on the warranty claim, ONCE I figured out where I had to get in touch with them...


Hope you guys have a nice week....

Glenn

J-MICHAEL

Ivan ~

Good quesion indeed.... ?? I've always wanted to snare on one of them Outrage G5 450 heli's which run on a 6-cell set-up, but didn't want the added hassle of having to acquire a whole different fleet of batteries that I could only most likely use in that helicopter.... But dang, I sure would love to feel the power from one of them !

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

What's this Trex 450 Sport thing you all are mentioning?

I guess I've been not paying attention to Align websites lately??

DANG, I forgot all about that cool fun fly down in Virginia with all the pros that was TODAY...[&o]

Oh well....I'd be better to just spend 1/10 the fuel and go check out my "local" heli club...gotta do that soon!!

Jeff, LOL on sending the motor your way...I'm sure you could "take care" of it for me...lol...

Let's not forget I have a Scorpion sitting here in the can....[X(]

Glenn

rotarydoc

Guys,

I just installed those cheapie blades from Helidirect...they took a LOT of tape to get them balanced, but the end result is good...

Had to use the shims from the 500 to get them to fit correctly in the grips...those shims that came with the 500 ESP are sooo cool...very thin, aluminum washer/shims that work perfectly...anyone know where to get those?

I have heard all the tricks like using an old credit card, milk jugs, etc...but it would be great to find some of these somewhere, they are nice!

Glenn

9sec240

Glenn... the 450 Sport. [link=http://www.alignrcusa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_ id=1342&zenid=203604a0b90156452147c1b65833b8f1]HERE[/link]



Head and tail nearly identical to the Pro but for belt drive.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g69Yho-s3wM&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Vid featuring the 450 Sport.

Which Heli Direct cheepies are you running?

J-MICHAEL

Glenn ~

You should put some upgraded bearings in the Scorpion motor while it is just sitting... Maybe some Boca ceramics or whatever you prefer. My flight with the T-500 I was having a weird noise coming from the machine, and upon the next morning of going to fly it, I got about a few inches off the ground, and one of the bearings in the Scorpion motor for the 500 gave way... Glad I wasn't in the air !!! [&:] I should download that tiny little clip soon...

Yeah there known for having bad bearing issues... Other than that, I love the Scorpion motors though. Right now the stocker Align 500L motor is in there.