GWR

My Feedback: (31)

One of my clubmates, Larry Boccio, bought a Great Planes 1/3rd scale Pitts and powered it with the small First Place gas engine. It WAS a nice looking plane. While still feeling it out and getting use to it, the upper wing separated and the plane crashed. When we were looking at the pieces to see what happened, we discovered that the cabane and interplane strut brackets are screwed into a 1/4" x 3" piece of hardwood with only a small "blob" of hot melt glue holding them to the ribs. I'll try to attach a photo for you to see for yourself. Otherwise, e-mail me and I'll send them direct. Anyway, if you bought one of these or are thinking of getting one, I suggest the you do some surgury and add some reinforcement to this area. After seeing Larry's, I was going to get one, but I don't want to bother if that's what you get for the money.

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

I have one of these, and know others who do...did your post-crash reveal the BLOCKS had failed, the Screws pulled out, or Internal wing structure failure? Did the center section brackets pull out? Could you tell what happened in the air, in what sequence?

GWR

My Feedback: (31)

Larry's been flying the Pitts for about 3 weekends now. He's was still just feeling it out and getting used to it. Nothing hairy, a roll or a loop every now and then. Today while flying, he said that the elevator trim kept changing until the upper wing departed. It looks like the rear cabane mounting block just broke away and the rest followed. The ribs looked intact and the mounting block was still screwed to the cabane. It looks like the glue just didn't hold. In fact, if the plane wasn't destroyed, the parts would still fit together perfectly. The block fits between the ribs and against the spar but there was only 2 little blobs of hot melt glue at the ends by the ribs and none between the block and spar. Like I said, you better cut it open and add some epoxy and tri stock in this area before flying. Good luck.

mrorv

My Feedback: (1)

I've only been in rc for 8yrs and i've been told if a joint looks like it might give, use epoxxy for stronger hold. i've been thinking about giant aeromaster or eq.for bigger biplane. I would not be afraid to buy the plane in question. mrorv

mrorv

My Feedback: (1)

my mistake, i thought the pitts was a kit build but not an arf. i would still buy plane, and I am not afilliated with maker of pitts.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

Sorry about your friends mishap. I guess that's the price some of us have to pay in order to be the first kid on the block with a new toy. I have one ready for the first flight, whenever the weather allows. I'm curious, what did GP have to say when told of the wing problem?

GWR

My Feedback: (31)

This all happened today. Larry will be contacting GP tomorrow and let me know what they say.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

How true. I don't think the problem lie's with the workers in third world countries. I doub't if most of them have very much education, or pride in their workmanship. The problem lies with the importers, who don't demand that a product go through the demanding testing stage that would disclose the limitations in the design, and construction. Remember, The mfg. must beat the compitition, the quality comes last. We must never forget that in most cases, when an imported product is introduced into this country, YOU & I will do the research, and testing to prove the reliability of the product. That's sad, but that's thhhe way it is.

xtraflyr

My Feedback: (11)

Thats one of the reasons that Dave Patricks ARFstake so long to come in. He goes oversees and checks on the products. It would also be nice if they ordered enough stock..
xtraflyr :rainfro:

KidVermin

My Feedback: (3)

I think I'll wait till the Mk II version comes out. At 400.00 it is
still a bargain; but not if you only get a couple of flights on it. My
spare 3.7 will have to sit a while longer.

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

If this turns out to be a problem on more of the GP Pitts just add it to the list of large ARF's that have huge problems in the first few production runs.

I stay away from them...

Bob Pastorello

My Feedback: (198)

FWIW - not to start a war here, or anywhere, but Larry had a bad experience. I feel for his loss, and we all would. His wing failed. We don't know (at least from a search on RCU) of any other Pitts failures, of any kind, since this has plane been out. With the popularity of that airplane, and the fact that it sold like hotcakes, I'd think perhaps we would have heard something like catastrophes such as this before. Bad for Larry, and since I own one, I hope there is NOT a "manufacturing problem"....

Anyway, ..my main point of this ramble is that ** WE ** are responsible for the cost-cutting measures that **WE** require of various manufacturers. If you consider the money we would have to spend and hours to invest to build (if we all would) our very own kits to the same quality, well...for nearly all of us it would be FAR more expensive than a $400 street price.

I'm not rationalizing the failure, or minimizing the inherent risks of the game, but I think we have to consider how our "demands" as consumers force the manufacturers to critically examine every aspect of their market with a close eye on every penny.

P.S. - I checked everything I could get to on the wings/fuse to inspect....made sure everything had CA in the holes, pin-tested the hardwood, checked the screws. Nothing more to do but continue to fly it!

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

Gentlemen,
Just to add my .02 (and knowing i'll regret it!) grin...

We as the importer are often 'beat up' when our ARFs ship later than our original dates. When that happens, almost without fail, it is BECAUSE the model has not past our very stringent QC and flight testing requirements. Believe me, gentlemen, being married to the test pilot, I can tell you just what is asked of these models and what they are put through before they are allowed to ship.

I'm sorry to hear that the gentleman had a wing failure. We will be very happy to look at his wing and try to determine what happened. Despite our very best efforts, problems can occur and parts with quality issues can slip through despite our very best efforts.

As Bob says, please lets not start a panic over a single complaint...


PS we do not use "hot glue" as in the comment listed above.

cdellin

My Feedback: (1)

Hi All,
I have one of these Pitts with a Saito 300 and love it. Last weekend I noticed the elevator trim changing a bit and landed it. The top wing front screw was a little loose, allowing the front of the wing to rise.
Just a WAG, top wing flutter??? With it being so big, no flutter sound that we're used to.
I ended up calling it a day and took it home. The hole was a little rounded out, so I made a bushing and tightened it back up....we'll see.

See ya....
Chris

pmmartin

I was very impressed that you responded to the problem reported on RCUniverse. It would have been easy for you to just ignore it. It certainly shows your interest and concern for customer support. I have been pleased with GP models that I have had.

I am a friend of Tom Cimato from MaxCim who I know you have worked with on your past Giles G-202 project. I met Tom as a result of buying one of his motors. Since I live about 20 miles from him and I have become very enthusiastic about the E stuff we have become friends. I am impressed with the quality of his systems and the total package plug and play approach that he offers. Tom is also very oriented to customer support.

I am about to begin on an E conversion of the GP Pitts which I thought you might find interesting. I will be using one of Tom's new MagaMax motors in it with 36 cells. I estimate that I will probably be using a 20x12 prop. The motor can produce 3.3 hp and it is designed for projects of this type.

www.maxcim.com

Paul M. Martin AMA 9962

[email protected]

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

Paul,
Sounds great! please keep us all informed here on how it turns out!!

RCJones

Cedellin,

Can you tell me about your Saito 300 install, I was looking at this combo and you are the first one out there trying it. I was interested about how it balanced and flew with the big twin

thanks

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Question for AnnMarie....

PLEASE do something about the misconception modelers have when they keep using the term "Hot Glue" when they see a bead of what appears LIKE hot glue!

Can you explain (time and time again) what type of glue it is and not the glue you get from Walmart's Craft Section!

I've talked to quite a few manufacturers and NONE of them use "Hot Glue"

Jerry


PS The GP PT-19 is gonna make a J-3 pilots jealous <g> Ya got a winner there!!!!

amcross

My Feedback: (2)

Hi, Tailskid! Thanks, yes, this is a very common misconception and a point of frustration for all of us as manufacturers.

ARFs are assembled with an epoxy-based product which does not dry until it is 'processed' -- think of it like Kiln-dried clays that stay soft until put in the Kiln. As such it doesnt look like normal epoxy; however, it has exceptional bonding characteristics, and most certainly IS NOT "craft glue".

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

Hideho all,

Thanks be to AnnMarie, willing to 'take the heat and stay in the kitchen.

Just kidding AM, nice to see you back in the trenches, again.

Taildragger

My Feedback: (204)

I just recieved my Pacific Models Tiger Moth and it seems to be assembled with regular epoxy and Elmers yellow wood glue. And they weren't stingy with it neither. Very nice ARF!

Jeff396

My Feedback: (1)

I am considering getting the Pacific Gee Bee Y. Please let us know how your Moth goes together and flies.

Jeff

Taildragger

My Feedback: (204)

I'm afraid it's gonna be a wait. I've got other projects going right now but I also was thinking of the Gee Bee after I seen the quality of this kit.

Loopman

My Feedback: (195)

I am not going to severely knock GP as they have some very good stuff out there. I will say that the GP Pitts that I purchased will never leave the ground! I bought mine from a very reputable hobby shop. I opened the box upon arrival and inspected all parts for "shipping" damage with none found I proceeded with construction. I have built GP ARF's in the past and followed the booklet and the included addendum to the letter. Once I got the top wing done and started to mount it I noticed rather quickly that the hardwood plates that the metal brackets screw into were way too soft and the holes for the cabane struts were way off on their original locations.

I contacted GP and after explaining this to the tech, who by the way was very polite, I was promised and received a replacement wing. I thought my problem was solved but upon inspection I found cracked ribs in the right wing section. The hardwood plates were of better quality however but stiil not of the quality that you find at your LHS wood bin.

After reading the posts on this thread I inspected the fuse and lo and behold found cracks in the wood structure and a couple of wood joints with poor quality fit and joining. I am to say the least disappointed that such a fine looking aircraft underwent extremely poor quality QA before being shipped.

I am sure that the guys and gals at GP tested the prototype to the extreme, problem may be that they should have tested one of the production run ones as well. Prototypes tend to meet and or exceed most everyone's expectations.

Also, an ARF is not meant to be a kit that you have to rebuild to assure success and longevity. If I had the time I would build all of my kits from scratch or from a regular kit, but I don't. I rely on reputable companies such as GP to do that.

I have used GP's aircraft kit review forum at their website. I will wait to hear from them. I wish all of you who have a flying GP Pitts continued success.

Happy Flying!

LOOPMAN

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

--Man I could see this one coming. I planned to do surgery on mine back then. Guess I need to open up the wings and check everything. Great Planes is a reputable company and I do think we will not have a rash of things like the flutter problem on the H9 Extra