mr_matt

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We just had a fun one day event at my field and some nice planes showed up. Here are a couple.

First David Souffer's new BVM F-100F, AMT NL Olympus , very nice!

mr_matt

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And my buddy Rex's new Firebird. This thing is amazing! I can't imagine how faaaast it is going to be....

Remember, if you hear any sonic booms over the southern California desert in the next couple of weeks, the Space Shuttle is still grounded!

More pics later, camera died!

Gordon Mc

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My guess would be 200 mph. The "ex-spurts" tell me that our jets don't go any faster than that. There's a technical thingamajig that's kinda like the sound barrier, which no aircraft was supposed to fly faster than .... but to distinguish itself from the original "A" model sound barrir, this one is called the "B Sound" (or B.S. for short) barrier.

mr_matt

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LOL no doubt, Gordon.....you are a big speed freak but there are some more of us down here.

We are planning on doing some stuff (dry lake bed) next year before we re-up our AMA, you wanna come down?

Gordon Mc

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I may be able to do it - depends on the timing. Lemme know when you come up with some dates etc.

However - if I'm gonna make arrangements to come all the way down there, you better not flake on me !!

mr_matt

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OK I understand. We gotta get a few planes dialed in, we might be out of the AMA up until March or so. I will keep you in mind and posted!

The biggest problem with dry lake beds is unpredictable weather (wind, mainly) and facilities. But we have a couple of other options (full size airports) as well.

more to follow!

KFalcon

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Bring em...

Doug Cronkhite

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That Firebird looks fast. I can almost see the vapor off the wingtips just standing still!

Flyjets

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Gordon

That Firebird I have heard over in other parts of the non AMA world is better then 300mph.

Supposedly there is a photo with a Firebird pulling Gs and there are vapor trails forming from the pressure / temperature differential.

One last comment the last Firebird I saw about 1 month ago was brand new and it had wing lets.

The BVM F100 in the photo looks like a copy of the fellow in Indianapolis Dean something if I recall beautiful plane.

seanreit

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Ian, I have seen the vapor trails off the wingtips first hand. It is real.

Sean

EddieWeeks

That's fuel coming of the wings, not water vapor....

This has been discussed at length.... but we can talk about it again... hahah

Eddie Weeks

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Eddie, Roger K and I were there man, we saw it, come on...........ha ha, I got nothing better to do, let's argue! BRING IT What's the status of the Mega?

EddieWeeks

OK... I'am game... Not to get into the Physics of why water vapor trails are just not
going to happen on a model of this size...

How come the only plane making vapor
trails is the only one with the fuel
vents coming out of the leading edge of the wing.. ?


Eddie Weeks

seanreit

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Eddie, I hope you are kidding me. Have you seen how far inboard those vents are? The contrails are at the outer tip of the wings and it happens only on the horizontal to vertical move at 200 +. I read all those arguments a year ago and no one is ever going to be able to tell me I didn't see what I saw. It happened at least twice in the same flight and weather conditions were such that the dew point could have easily been reached and as fast as you saw them they were gone. It was both wing tips. I'm telling you, it did it.

Doug Cronkhite

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Of course.. spanwise flow wouldn't have anything to do with that right? As in.. spanwise flow of fuel coming out of the vents. Having never seen this on VERY humid days at Madera years ago with 240mph, 50+ pound airplanes pulling upwards of 30g's in the turns.. I find no way to believe this was consensation vapor on the Firebird.

erbroens

Under certain conditions, contrails are visible in formula one cars, and they run at lower speeds than our models , so seems very possible that a big and fast model in a tight turn can do it...

btw that F-100 is really nice too!

Enrique

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Eddie, it's the change in pressure that changes the temperature that makes it happen. Once the temperature drops, the condensation shows up for half a second and then the surrounding air temperature heats the air back up and the condensation gets re-absorbed by the air.

Guys, there is just no way you'll ever be able to convince me that it wasn't the real deal. Doug, look at the difference between the firebird wingtips vs the models you were talking about. I see it all the time in commercial airliners landing in humid LOW TEMPERATURE weather conditions. It's not just that it's humid outside, the temperature also has to be low. It can be 90 degrees and humid out, but the dew point is too low to see the water come out of the air. Once you get the temp low and humidity high that dew point is easier to reach. EDDIE, YOU'RE IN WEATHER, WHERE AM I WRONG? I can get out the chart if I have to.

Rojeck

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Doesn't the Hustler also have the same vents as the Firebird, but no ones seen vapor trails off its wings. Really does it matter how or why, it still looks really cool. I know cause I saw it on my firebird twice.

Sung

seanreit

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Sung, do you remember the weather conditions?

Rojeck

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Sean

I think it was a cool day, probably in the low 50s or high 40s. Really, it does not matter, all I know it looks real cool to see the trail off of the wingtips.

Sung

EddieWeeks

So how long were they... What was the longest one you saw and were they excatly the same
length on both wings.. ?

Eddie

Flyjets

My Feedback: (51)

Eddie

I know Sean is right about this. I have seen this so many times it isn't funny from Formula 1 to even under the Engines on my Jumbo Jet. Most of the time it's when the temp and dew point are within a few degrees. I can't tell you how many times passengers tell me I am venting fuel overboard when they see a contrail.

I saw the vent tubes on Tommy Woods Firebird but I would guess that the vapor trails Sean saw were just around the wingtips?

BTW what happened to your Fastest Car?



I think I can beat you in the short distance bring it to Florida jets.

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Eddie, they were about 8" long and about 1/2 inch wide and lasted about half a second. Same size both wing tips.
Both times I saw them, they were the same length and size. Same weather conditions (low 50's) and high humidity.

Off the wingtips and not in straight level flight, it happened on a hard manuever from horizontal flight to vertical.

Thomson

I have seen the vapor trails on 2 airplanes. At first I thought that it was fuel but there is no fuel residue out to the wing tips. There is a few drops behind the vents but not enought to write home about. For fuel to create that significant a vapor trail, wouldn't it require a significant amount since there is no heat source to vaporize it to the density necessary to see it?

I am on the side of the wing tips.

Why the Hustler does not have the vapor trails? The Hustler uses a thicker wing airfoil.

A great debate either way. End of day, a great flying airplane.

dave

seanreit

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Drop in pressure gives a drop in temperature. Drop in tempterature is the same as putting a glass of ice water on the table in that hot Louisianna muggy summer. The lower temperature air around the glass can no longer hold the muggy water and it comes off on the glass. The fog that you can blow out of your mouth in the winters in Colorado are the same thing, there is moisture in your breath and the air is so cold and dry that it can't hold the moisture, so you see the fog.

It's all right off the psychrometric chart. Lot's of info on the web on how this happens, but it's simplified by Ion's explanation. Dew Point and Temperture very close. Make a small change in pressure (which is directly related to temperature), and voila, moisture pops out of the air.

http://www.taftan.com/thermodynamics/PSYCHART.HTM