wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

Looking at all the threads about Skymaster quality control, design, and manufacturing issues, i had though that these were mostly confined to the "discount" arfs originating with that company .. Unfortunately these problems also plague the $5K plus large jets as well ... I'm not making this post to bash anyone, but its only fair that potential buyers, as well as current owners are aware of the issues so they can be sure to inspect an review every single bit of these planes for problems. A month ago i took delivery on a MB339 arf+ pro plane .. first impression: wow, gorgeous plane with amazing detail ... but it has some serious structural problems which would result in loss of aircraft and worse yet, someone getting hurt with 50 lbs of jet departing from the sky in pieces .. here's the problems i had ..

- the tubes in the wings were so poorly laid up that most of the tube was just unsaturated glass cloth!! I could put my finger through it if i want to. The rest where there is epoxy/resin, is such a bad quality that its still gunky and gummy. I actually could not get the wing tube out at first because of this. It came out looking like it had bubble gum stuck all over it. On one wing, there was a rib shoved through the wing tube receptacle with globs of glue all over it .. i could not even get the wing tube all the way in on that one. With the wings, therre is no way to fix this, and i am waiting on a new pair of wings ... So a $5k arf that for a month i have no wings for, and not i have to wait at least another month before replacements are ready (that means2 - 3 months Chinese time )

- Fuselage formers: Most of the fuselage formers (besides the ones that join the two fuse halves) were so poorly glued with such bad glue, that most of them popped easily off by hand. This includes the engine mount rail structure which came apart with probably 1/2 the force that an engine would actual put out and place across these areas .. At least these are all things that i can fix ..

- canopy glass all over was poorly glued with smears all over it ... hey, for $5k i expect clean clear canopy glass ... my 9 year old could do a cleaner neater glue job.

- with very slight pressure, all the leading edges on the wings "popped" ... this means they could have blown apart in flight ... i assume however this is a potentially bad area on most planes and have my methods of resolving and reinforcing anyway ... (1/8" hole under wing side, spray in some water .. wait a min, and pour in some "gorilla glue" letting it settle to the LE ... rock solid and will never let go) .. I will do this on the replacement wings ...

- the wing tube is poorly glued to the fuselage and the area actually transferring the loads to it from the fuse is very very small .. definite reinforcement and added structure will be needed here...

- on elevators, the live hinging tears and would not have lasted very long. I reinforced this with additional hinge strips from the inner joint. I will use added pannel screws and inner ply tabs to further secure these. I will probably do the same on ailerons and flaps, as they will likely develop the same problem ... i do wish these were not live-hinged .. its not scale looking this way either (but that's just a personal preference ... )


I do have to say Jeff at RCI has been nothing but super helpful, and i feel bad he gets to be stuck in the middle in these situations. I think SM needs to focus on customer service and quality with their existing planes before they keep trying to flood more new ones on the market. In retrospect, had i known there were such issues with SM planes (on the larget models) i would have probably gone the FeiBao route and just modified/reinforced the plane as i have to do on the SM one anyway ... would have been over $1K cheaper too I wonder if other companies SM manufactures parts for are also affected by these QC issues

for for what its worth, please do check every part possible on your planes, especially that hard to see or get to areas. With some things like wing retention tabs, wing mounts, engine mounts, hinges etc, this could mean losing your plane or someone getting hurt ..


~V~

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

.

Rob Howarth

Put it back in the box, ship it to your sales agent and request a refund. Your sales agent can then take it up with SM. You should not have to modify this, modify that to make it airworthy.

Pete737

Huh, I've had 3 skymasters so far and haven't seen anything like that yet..

Pete

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

I am wiring on replacement wings and parts, however this has put me out for going on a 2nd month. RCI who is the sales agent has been more than helpful in all this, and i praise Jeff for his efforts. I understand MOST planes will not have issues, but MANY do.... Just like with Toyota .. most did not have brake issues and are super reliable .. however enough did that it became newsworthy (a recall was in order there . ) ... I have had numerous SM jets through the years, and had absolutely no complaints with those. I was just really surprised to see such a major QC issue with a jet like this .. and then how long its taking to resolve this just adds annoyance on top of that ..

~V~

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

I hate to say it Voy, but after the last email you sent me, I gotta say, I told ya so LOL
Hope you can get it all sorted, I'm no longer willing to risk my equipment in the chinese jets, and if I buy an ARF, it's to save time, if I have to redo everything, I'd rather build a kit. Hey, with all the extra work you've got to do, for just 2K more you'd have been able to get a Firebird again

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

haha, lol ..

i guess i can't say much to that no can I now ?

Jim Cattanach

Sounds more like Skydisaster than Skymaster.
I have also had a few Skymaster jets & have had no serious issues. You must have got a last thing Friday night construction by a worker who had just been fired.

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

Nah, it was just assembled by the worker who couldn't find his lunch, most people get grouchy and can't focus when they're hungry

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9977622

haha, see Voy, bad pilot choice

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

It wasnt nesecery to state something like that..members here are smart and they can come up with there own opinion about your action.

Sooo i have one question for you:
why you kept the product and you didnt returned it back to your dealer????

Regards
George Papagiannis
Exclusive SkyMaster Dealer for Greece

digitech

My Feedback: (10)

i remember you praising the lord about the liberty jets?.

3DHELINUT

My Feedback: (3)

The dealer has to agree to accept the item back and then agree to a replacement or refund, the cost to ship it back and not have a RA number could put you in a worse situation.


Alan

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

Yeah, that's right I praised the lord about them, nice statement..... if you'd continued to read further you'd have seen that I eventually got so frustrated by dealing with it that I sold it. But I guess as I grow in the hobby and try different things I'm not allowed to make new educated statements or decisions right Sandor?

i3dm

My Feedback: (51)

it appears that SM is going downhill with their QC lately, or is it just me ?

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Alan

well sed but when you dont receive what you pay for you also dont pay for the shiping back.

I still wait a reply from the owner "wojtek" and not from you or anyone else.please dont get me wrong

Some one alowed this to hapent and two are in this:

customer and his dealer so everybody please stop posting before we end up with loads of pages.


At the end of the day customers should never receive that kind of product from skymaster

MEANS

1-or the customer accepted to keep the defect product and dont return them

2-or the dealer didnt acept it back forcing the customer to keep the bad product leaving no other way but to complane in publick


SkyMaster has the good will to change any defect products cause sh$ t hapens in real life so in production line!

but can not control the two above cenarios


again i wait a reply from the owner to my question

Regards
George Papagiannis
Exclusive SkyMaster Dealer for Greece

-.-..-

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

seems like Sm is starting to cut corners to keep up with the pace of the other arf companies out of china?

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Please Thomas in my post above
i asked everybody not to post coments so we get somewhere here. "seems" you didnt read it.

POST IF you are the owner or the dealer

EVERYBODY if you want to realy help STOP POSTING before we reach 100 pages again and no one cares

i promish ill keep it on top.
why? because skymaster does care




Regards
George Papagiannis
Exclusive SkyMaster Dealer for Greece

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

lets start once more:

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

George, calm down there buddy ... anyone can post here, good bad , or whatever in between, like it or not, so don't act all arrogant demanding replies and telling people what to do...

As for my case, with SM replacing the wings, i'm willing to keep the planes and give it a shot, even though that will take a lot of waiting and extensive additional work to get the airframe airworthy. Besides the issues, the jet ( as well as other SM planes) is beautiful, and the MB339 in particular looks and flies great in the air, I have always liked this plane, my 2nd rc jet I had was the cermark MB339.. The gear by AirPower from Skymaster is just amazing. Detail is superb. I am however really surprised at the lack of quality in areas that would not have taken much effort to improve on the manufacturer's end, especially where structural soundness and safety are at stake. .. I am also not happy about being out for going on 2 months without being able to start on $5k aircraft, and possibly a lot longer. Also, Jeff at RCI has been super helpful and I would rather not put him in the middle of a return process, etc .. I run a business myself and i understand what it is to deal with customers on one end, and manufacturers/suppliers on the other ..

I think more people should post experiences with their planes publicly, be it good or bad, and not be criticized for posting on here if their experience with a product is less than perfect. Product review sites, and magazines like Consumers Reports serve that very purpose in other industries, public opinion and experience serves that save very purpose here on RCU for us modelers.


~V~

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

I must agree Jeremy , the pilot choice will be reevaluated.. I think a BBI plastic pilot might have to do the initial test flights before Tigger gets a go at the sticks

~V~

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

My friend

You are a customer...and not any kind of customer
My promblem is i dont want unhuppy customers .
Spesialy ones that feel there is no after sales service and forced to go inpublick.

Forgive my poor english and my way if i sed something wrong!

Jef is one great guy and so is you!Yes our rcjet world is very small to not know people..

Your new wings will be on there way soon!
Cause once more SkyMaster Jets do care for there customers

before finishing and jumping off this post since its over for me i would like to point out:

- turbines have no vibrations and not (2t) acceleretions =high G to cause there wood mound to fail

- the fiberblass tube in your wings and fuse is to GUIDE the metal wing tube while you put it in place and
not to take any loads!

- formers are not there to be test puld by hand but to suport some balves a UAT powerbox and a batery


thank you again everybody for respect my wish before about post stoping for a while
i am sorry but skymaster cant help if this turn out in 10pages and groing in a sec

thanx and sorry again

Best Regards
George
SkyMaster Jets

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

Part of my concern in these situations is in the fact that these airplanes are produced on a production line. That means there is going to be more than one worker responsible for one complete airplane. None of the parts are produced specifically for one airplane, in other worse, just because you get a complete kit all at once, doesn't mean that the wings you received, and the fuse, and tail, were all produced at the same time for that one particular airplane. They might have layed up 20 fuselages and 20 sets of wings, there is somebody responsible for each part. So when you see faults like this in all the components, it leads me to believe it's not just one person having a bad day, but rather the overall process at the factory.
If these airplanes were produced one at a time like the smaller guys do, and by one or two people, there would be an excuse, but these factories in china have multiple workers, working on many airplanes at once. It would be reasonable to think that the guy building the wings had a bad day IF everything else in the kit was done correctly, but to have flaws with the wings, fuse, and stab says to be that they are simply cutting corners.
Customer service is great, and replacement parts and/or kits are fine, but when it comes right down to it, there is no excuses for an overall airplane to have this many issues.
It's just my opinion, but when you start talking $5000, there are a lot of airplane options out there, you should have to settle for issues like these.

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

George,
While I know you to be a good person, and a friend of mine, I must disagree with you on these points.

1. Turbines don't have vibration no, but there are extreme loads on the rails that mount the engines. Both from their thrust, as well as G forces while the airplane is in motion. The engine is really the single heaviest item in a jet. On a bad landing, you could experience up to say 8G's, and that is a shock load, that means you've now got effectively a 24lb engine that is giving a sharp jolt to the engine mounts. Wojtek flies hard, the jet will be subjected to many G's, engine mounts and formers are critical.

2. The fiberglass tube in the wings may be there to guide the wing tube, but it does have some structural use as well, if for nothing more than extra support for the ribs it passes through. In the large Viperjet the wing tube carries shear webs above and below it, it is part of a structure. Besides that, when the tubes are an individually laid up component, and you see them done that poorly, it makes you question what other internal structure was missed, especially when you still find raw resin's in there that cause the wing tube to get stuck.

3. Formers should all be able to withstand a good yank by hand, again, take a look at the weight of batteries or other components, particularly in high G flight. I personally want the security of knowing that if a former comes loose, it's only because it's taking fiberglass with it. It is not difficult to properly glue formers into a structure, it just takes a little care.

I'm not trying to say these things to start a war, but you're asking people not to post in this thread and let skymaster deal with it, but your comments do not make skymaster look good. They make it look as though you're saying these problems are ok because they might not actually be issues down the road. However, they shouldn't be issues at any point and time.

Again, it's just my opinion, but I'm happy to see threads like this, it warns others that might not realize they SHOULD check things over to do so.

MNModels

LGM,

You are wrong. All jets are produced 1 by 1 by same worker. All jets are made to order and at no time are there multiple kits ready to ship. I will know as i have been there... This is an isolated case that i am sure Anton will take up with the worker as soon as all document are checked and who signed off the model. Will be interrested to know when this model was produced? Will check on that as it might have been lying in USA for a while....not sure at the time...

Morne

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

George, you didnt really do SM any favors there buddy. Crap is crap, with or without Ketchup!
What Vo is showing, is crap, plain and hold the mayo.