tadatuo

Are there any mild aerobatics that a stock Piccolo Fun can perform? Thanks!

tadatuo

I guess my main question is: What kind of aerobatics can a fixed pitch helicopter perform? Thanks!

DMehalko

My Feedback: (42)

Nothing

VinceHerman

Pirouettes? Loops? (ok, big sloppy flopovers)

tadatuo

Thanks. I didn't realize that you could do a loop or flop over! Do you have any videos of that? Thanks.

VinceHerman

There are some others that can be done as well, but since I am still working on side in, I have not bothered learning the names. Most people get comfortable doing circuits wiht FP and then go to CP to do aerobatics.
But, yes, the FP will loop.
Take a browse through the BBS for the Ikarus products and you will find references. Let me dig one up for you.
http://www.microheli.net/webspace/Jonathan/fp_pico.avi
There. About 55 seconds in, the pilot does loops and rolls.

Are you considering getting a Piccolo? If so, there are a few configuration suggestions that I would like to make that would help a lot. And some upgrades that are worth their money. Not absolutely needed, but certainly improves the quality of the experience.

caseyddr

My Feedback: (13)

vince, if i may ask, how much is a used piccolo fun rtf worth? I'm bout to trade for one but wanna make sure i get a fair trade. Also, I'd like to know those upgrades I will be learning to fly with this, which I'm not to worried about.. I learned how to fly a plane my first try and landed first try when i was like 7. Should I jus wait and get the competition/pro version of the piccolo? Or would u really suggest getting a gas powered heli? I'm more interested in actually flying the thing then doing stunts.

VinceHerman

if you are learning, I highly recommend the FP version. After you learn to hover, after you learn nose in hovering, and after you lear to fly circuits, then you consider foing Collective. Saves a lot of aggrevations. A LOT.
Where are you trading? A local flyer or online? Do you know what equipment it has? Piccoboard or seperates? Head hold or not? Which motor? What batteries? Have you seen it fly?
Getting RTF will deny you a valuable learning experience of building it yourself. Not a showstopper, but something to think about.
If you are considering getting a Piccolo, you can lear a lot from the wolds biggest and most knowledgable group of Piccolo flyers on the Ikarus BBS. e-mail me offline for a link. Oh, go read [link=http://www.pgoelz.com/piccolo1.html]Paul's site[/link].

recommended upgrades: LiPo batteries!!! Aluminum hub, delrin Anti-Rotation link. Bearings if you have the bushings that come with the 'fun' version.

Did I mention that Lithium Polymer batteries are the ONLY way to go?

caseyddr

My Feedback: (13)

its an internet deal. I can ask him tehse questions but I really dont know.. I don't know much about helis... I'm a RC Car buff anyways, I'll ask him what you suggested. I looked on the web though, and saw that the picco fun RTF with 1 battery was 489$ at hobbytron.com. Now, if that is a good price or not I do not know. This does come with 2 batts, and looks very clean. If you want I will send you a picture of the heli and maybe you can see something I cant. Tobad I cant find lipo batteries for my RC car... they give 40+ minute run times at 40-45+ MPH under racing conditions (rc review). Average runtime for me is 8 minutes.

tadatuo

Thanks for the tips and recommendations. I also had another question. What is an auto rotation? I've come across that word a couple times but don't really know what it is. Is it a aerobatic trick?

VinceHerman

It is a collective pitch trick that is only possible if you have a one-way bearing (good idea for brushless setup anyway). As I understand it:
1: have a lot of altitude
2: shut off the throttle
3: put the main blades at negative pitch
This will maintain rotor RPM as you fall, allowing cyclic input
4: flair to possitive pitch to trade head RPM for a soft landing

I could be completely wrong. This is just what I have gleaned from reading about full sized helis.

tadatuo

That video is pretty cool! Those loops and rolls were awesome. Thanks for the link.

tadatuo

VinceHerman,

I hear so much about the lithium polymer batteries and they sound really good. Do you have to alter anything else in your helicopter if you use lithium polymer batteries (ie motor)? Thanks.

VinceHerman

If you have a fairly light (stock) heli and go with a 2 cell LiPo pack, the only mod you have to make is to struggle to balance the heli. The LiPo pack is lighter than the NiCad or NiMH so you have to push the LiPo and other components forward to maintain balance. Oh, and your face gets sore from smiling so much when you fly the first time. :-D
If you have a heavier heli (futaba gy240 hh gyro) or need the power (CP) then a 3 cell pack is for you. The stock tail motor does not like this voltage, so getting a high frequency tail ESC is one solution. Getting a high authority tail motor is another solution.
I recommend to all inquiries that you go with seperates rathe than the piccoboard. There is a little more setup work, but the advantages of this are many. It is easier to replace just one fail componnent rather than hoping that a broken piccoboard can be repaired. It is easier to swap in a high frequency tail esc. It is easier to swap in a brushless controller to go with a brushless motor (although this can be done with a piccoboard with a y adapter) And the seperate HH gyros are reported to behave better than the HH gyro on the Piccoboard so equiped.

Ukmaxi

Just wondering at what age group would you recemend for using a Piccolo Fun!!

VinceHerman

I know that there are several 14yr olds on the Ikarus board. I recall one dad that talked about getting is 8 or 9 yr old daughter started on the sim so that she could move into using his old FP piccolo. That would be about the youngest reference I can remember. The 14 yr olds are often struggling to come up with the cash for replacement parts. You WILL need replacement parts as you drag yourself through the learning curve.

Ukmaxi

thx vince I save up anyway i got a lot of money!!! just wanted to know. Also is it easy to handle + what is the difference between fixed pitch and collective pitch.

VinceHerman

Basically, FP is Fixed Pitch and CP is Collective Pitch. FP is more robust and better for beginning on. CP is more advanced, more expensive to repair, but oh so alluring...
Read the Ikarus [link=http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=138982&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1]Welcome Page[/link] to read more about micro heli starting information, and then read [link=http://www.pgoelz.com/piccolo1.html]Paul's site[/link] for additional information.
I'd type more, but I am pretending to work at the moment... :-)

Ukmaxi

Thx again vince i think thats the best choice for me....

P.S How much room do you think you will need to fly indoors. Also a many thx.......

Ukmaxi

I am thinking of getting one of those piccolo packages were you get everyting you need to get going for £225 British pounds do you think this is a wise idea vince also is the picco board anygood or does going seperates make it work better.

VinceHerman

The amount of room? If I had an [link=http://www.thesportsdome.com/aviation.aspx]80,000 square foot room[/link], I would be confident I would not hit anything but the ground. :-)
Actually, im my living room (abut 13 feet square room) I can fly fairly well. I remove the coffee table, and push teh remaining furniture to the walls. So the room is ringed by sofa, chairs, entertainment center, end tables and such. Once I put it up into a hover, I only have 2 or 3 minutes of stable flight (as stable as my limited piloting skills allow). Then the air in the room gets to turbulent. I have to land (OK, crash) and let the air settle for a minute or so.
If you are thinking about getting one, you need to do some more reading. There are a [link=http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=138982&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1]few[/link] - [link=http://www.pgoelz.com/piccolo1.html]good[/link] - [link=http://www.dream-models.com/h/index.html]links[/link] that you need to read several times. Here is what I recommend to people who are considering getting a piccolo:

Fun kitt
Bearings upgrade
CNC ARL (anti rotation link)
Aluminum hub
2 Pixie7P ESCs (or 1 GWS 100 and 1 GWS 50)
CSM HLG200 head hold gyro
2 cell Lithium Polymer battery, 1000 to 1200 mAh
LiPo charger
Any 4 channel transmitter and sub micro receiver
Training gear

Yes, I prefer seperates instead of the piccoboard. I dislike the idea of having to replace all componnents if 1 goes bad. Poor economics.
Yes, I very strongly prefer LiPo batteries over NiCad ot NiMH. The higher energy density lets you fly a lighter heli longer.
Yes, there are other upgrades that you can do. But wait until you lear on this setup and THEN consider other upgrades. If you know how the heli behaves on this setup, then you can determine the effectiveness of other upgrades.
My training gear is 2 light weight fiberglass rods (2mm diameter) about 2 feet each in an X, with ping pong bolls on the ends) I rubberband them to the landing gear. This helps with the early stages of learning.

Is that enough to get you started? No? Ask away! :-)

Ukmaxi

thx i think i will start with picco board first then buy seperates eventually. were did you get the training landing gear from? price?

Ps go on to your link you gave to me there is a ace video on somebody landing there piccolo on the ceiling...

VinceHerman

Yeah, isn't that ceiling landing thing sick? I was so envious I was drooling! I definitely want my skills to progress to the point that I can justify going CP.
The landing gear I made from pieces parts I had laying around. 2mm fiberglas rod (CF would be better but I had FG). I cut them to the length that would just fin in my carry case. I chucked up a scrap piece of the rod into my dremel to melt/drill perfect sized holes into ping pong balls. Wrap a rubberband around the middle of both rods so that you can spread them into an X, pop on the ping pong balls, and then rubberband the gear to the skids. You now have a much wider footprint that lets you scoot around on the floor to familiarize yourself with cyclic control. Landings are less likely to result in a tipover. The extra weight that far below CG even makes it more stable in flight.

I had originally ordered the foberglass rods for my kites. I have bundles of rods and tubes of many different sized, and when I go to the LHS, I often get more. But most of it I purchased (quite cheaply) form online. In the USA, [link=http://www.intothewind.com]Into the Wind[/link] is great, as is [link=http://ecom.citystar.com/hang-em-high/]Hang'em High Fabrics[/link]. I am sure that there are such shops on your side of the pond.

Ukmaxi

If you intrested i found some good parts for the piccolo's i.e tail moter heat sink and main moter heat sink take a look on [link=http://www.e-flight.co.uk/piccolo-upgrades-modifications.asp?page=2]E-Flight[/link]

Ukmaxi

Do you know anybody who uses a piccoboard vince + how much would seperates cost