jcw111

Mike How much weight did you add to get the CG right? I am at that point now of arranging the radio-servo-battery stuff. One thing that has really ticked me off was the vertical fin install. It came close to fitting but what a joke. I ended up giving up on trying to make it fit as it should and just glued it on and will fill the voids with balsa and micro baloons epoxy mix. This thing has been a long way from "plug and play" . Got about another week of part time work and it should be ready to go.

Jim

AncientCityFlyer

Jim... wow, it seems BH quailty control is in the toilet. I was lucky in that my vert. stab fit like a glove. Wonder why yours was way off. I've moved the rx battery to the top of the engine mount box and plan on trying to get it balanced tonight. I'm sure it will take more than just the weight of the battery to balance correctly. Will try and post the results tonight. Mike

AncientCityFlyer

Jim.....Are you ready for the weight results.....It's going to take 11-1/2 oz. of lead to get it to balance at the 80mm reference point for correct balance. And that's just placing on the outside of the cowling. Not sure where I'll place it on the inside. Thinking about on the engine mount beams but I'm concerned about the pitch moment already and sticking that much weight ( maybe a few oz. less) that far forward might add to it. Thought about redoing the tail wheel to try and lighten the tail end but I doubt I'd be able to eliminate any weight that way. Not sure what to do next. Maybe send the whole thing back! Mike

ps At this point this will probably be my last BH model, for that fact, if I do get another arf it will be either be SIG, Great Planes, H-9, or possibly Top-Flight.

jcw111

Mike Thanks for the info on the weight. That is a lot of weight. The reason I asked is that I was looking at the firewall bolts protruding thru the blind nuts. I will get some lead sheet somwhere and cram as much as I can at the back of the firewall and use the bolts to hold it in. I have used the engine mounts for sticking lead as well as the firewall. One time years ago I even melted lead and poured it into the engine backplate. Not a good idea. You are right about BH models. This one has been a real dog. I came very close to hanging it up yesterday. My T28 was a good one. Maybe it will redeem itself and fly like a bird. I plan on flying mine next Friday unless I run into some other stupid problem. Will keep you posted.

Jim

AncientCityFlyer

Jim....You're right about the T-28. Took me about 6-8 hrs to assemble. The manual was some what better than the Lion's manual, at least the critical parts were explained well. It balanced on the money and as I recall I didn't even add any weight. I fly it with a Saito .82 running inverted and it flies like a dream. That's why I jumped on the Lion, figuring it would be as good as the T-28. I was even thinking of the 1.20 T-28 in the future, but I'm defiantly going to watch a build thread on it before I even THINK about getting one, besides my hanger is full. Mike

AncientCityFlyer

Jim...Well she's done...I guess....Got it balanced at the 80mm CG. Took 11-1/2 oz. of lead. Some on the engine mount box and some on the engine mount beams. Total weight of the Lion comes in 6lbs. 8 oz. Not a bad weight. I've got a feeling this thing is gonna be a handful to fly. It did balance nicely up-side-down, but when you set it on the gear and start to raise the tail, all of a sudden it wants to nose over very quickly. I fly off grass so this should be interesting. If it flies nice so be it, if doesn't fly well it will end up either in a plastic bag or hanging from a ceiling somewhere. I'm tired of messing with this one.

I've included some pic's of the engine install with the Magnum .52. I did a couple of other things also. I installed a sheet balsa plate over the servo's to help prevent the aileron servo wires from getting tangled up in the servo arms and linkage. I also installed a lite ply former in the trailing end of the belly pan. Used the ply former on the fuse behind the belly pan as a template. The instructions show just cutting it pan and leaving it open. It definitely stiffen it up. The plans also show using the weird piece of foam on the forward side of the belly pan??which I didn't use. I had to elongate the wing bolt holes on the belly pan to allow the wing bolts to drop into the wing sockets as they didn't line up. Lot's of little issues with this one, glad is done.

jcw111

Mike

Nice job. sure looks pretty. Will do your mods to mine. Might be a good idea to add a wheel under the front of the cowl. We fly off asphalt so I am sure the cowl will get pretty beat up. Might just add a skid plate from the get go. Yes it is the little crap that is driveing me nuts.
Every time I turn around there is something not right. Looking foreward to your first flight. I think you said maybe Tuesday ??

Jim

AncientCityFlyer

Jim....Yep, Tues. looks like the maiden flight. We get afternoon showers everyday this time of year. Mornings are usually in the mid to upper 80's with 85% humidity and no wind. The no wind is what I'm looking for. Will post the results Tues. evening. Mike

jcw111

Mike

GOOD LUCK !! Will be waiting for the results

Jim

AncientCityFlyer

Jim....Well here's the skinny on the maiden flight. NOT!!!!!! Good day for a maiden, temp about 84, humidity 85%, no wind. Short cut 500' grass runway (1/2" tall dense grass). Flying with a Magnum .52 4-stroke swinging a 12x6 prop turning 9,250 rpm. 4 attempts at take-off. Each attempt had a good straight run down the runway, very little right rudder input, neutral elevator after about a 150' run, then slight up elevator, then a little more up and it just keeps going down the runway. No way was it going to fly, it didn't even attempt to get airborne. I was afraid if I really gave it full up elevator I would have probably done a quick loop and augured in. The speed down the runway is my concern, it just didn't seem like enough speed (no way to measure). I don't know if it's the incidence ( one problem with AFR's is they never give you any incidence numbers so you have no way of knowing what's what) or just not enough power. Saw one of these on YouTube and there was a notation that it was flying with a O.S.81 4-stroke? I've got a Saito .82 in my T-28 that I could probably swap out and try it but at this point I think this $@!**&%$##@^ (expletive's deleted) is going to get donated to the cafe at our local airport to hang up in the ceiling with a few other retired rc aircraft.

Another thing, before you attempt to fly, grab each (3) of the cowl mount blocks and give them a good tug, I'll bet they all break off. I lightly bumped the cowl as I was removing the fuse from my truck this am and one broke off. Luckily I had some 5 min epoxy and was able to re-glue it. On the second take-off attempt, when I realized it wasn't going to get airborne, I cut the power and it went into the tall grass at the end of the runway at a very slow speed. After I recovered it I noticed another cowl mount block had broken loose, plus one of the bottoms of the wheel pants was busted and cracked and split all the way back to the trailing end of the pant.

At this point I'm going to shelve it and forget about it for quite a while. I'm definitely done with BH models. All the issue's I've had just isn't worth it. I'll probably go back and start kit building, at least that way I can control what's happening during the build. Sorry for the rant....but enough is enough! I'll wait and see what others come up with, good luck to all. Mike

jcw111

Mike

What can I say but nuts. I am having some serious misgivings myself. It probably is the wing incidence. Your engine should have plenty of power. I talked to a guy at HP a few weeks ago and he powered his with electric. Did not discuss flying. I am up to my butt with the belly pan. What a joke trying to get it to fit. I did make a mistake (I think) by cutting the front of the pan out. I have to put formers in both ends now and it is just to much messing around. I do plan on removing the pants and covers for the maiden. Now that I am this far I must try it !! Maybe give them a call and see what they say about the take-off problem. They are really a nice bunch of guys. I will check the wing incidence today. Also the cowl blocks seem OK but will give them a rap with the hammer and see what happens. With that big cowl a 12 inch prop only has a few inches of prop on each side of the cowl biteing the air. I plan on using a 13 X 5 MAS on my 53 engine but this might cause a ground clearance problem. Anyway all the fun has sure gone away with this one. Now it's my turn so will keep you posted

Jim

jcw111

Mike I just checked the incidance of the wing using a Robart incidence meter and with the horizontal stab at zero the wing is a NEGATIVE 1 1/2 Degrees. Checked it 4 or 5 times. This check was done on a flat surface. Now assuming it was off a bit and assuming the horizontal stab is parallel with the center axis of the fuse this is not good at all. I figure it should be about 3 degrees positive. Going to call HP now and see what they say

Jim

jcw111

Mike just called HP. They have built one of these but have not flown itHow bout that. I am waiting for a return call from their Product manager.

NOW HAS ANY ONE OUT THERE BUILT AND FLOWN THIS PLANE ?? IF SO PLEASE SPEAK UP

Jim

jcw111

Mike
Talked to HP Product Mgr. Nothing much came of the conversation. Nice guy. Says that negative incidence should make no difference. This I am checking with our Pros here in Phx.Anyhow at this point I am sighning off on this thing. I will finish the plane and fly it. He did ask me to call him after the first flight. Will let you know what happens.

Jim

stuntflyr

Shim the wing and try again. It's not rocket science. AncientCityFlyer has done a lot of good work on that model, the complaining seems incongruous with his abilities. ARF's are built crappy and we make them nice with our building skills, which it seems the guys on this thread have. Press on, we want to see them fly!
Also, I saw the vids of the other guys flying these very well with much bigger engines, I thought that the 53 4 stroke might be a little small. This thought came up again when the nose weight issue was raised (short nosed models always need weight, again the complaining about that reality seemed out of place). If the wing in Ancient's model has negative wing incidence then it probably is needing adjustment to make it fly since he wrote that it was "hauling A" on the TO roll. Come on Ancient, you seem so close!
Chris...

jcw111

Mike
Tomorrow is the big day. Got our super test pilot to do the maiden. Just finished putting the decals on. and everything checks out OK. Needed 12oz of lead to balance. So stay tuned. Will report the results about noon tomorrow

Jim

AncientCityFlyer

Jim....Good luck and gentle breezes. Will be waiting for the results. Mike

jcw111

Mike Back from the field a while ago. The Lion flew great. rather stiff wind from the east 10 to 15 and gusting. Took off in about 100 ft and was trimmed out with quite a bit of down elevator. Landing was a beautiful 3 pointer. Wind was so strong we couldn't turn it around to taxi back Bob Frey was my test pilot and this guy can fly. Probably one of the best in the country. Power was a Irvine 53 with a Bisson muffler and a 13X 5 MAS K series prop. It all fit into the cowl with no holes except for the exhaust tubes. The plane is very fast with this set up. Anyhow glad it's over. There are a few mods that I have to make but more on that next time

Jim

stuntflyr

Glad to hear it went well on the first flight. Thanks for posting about your trials and success with the Gilmore Lion. Neat looking model.
Chris...

onewood

Mike, I have about 15 flights on my Gilmore and it flys great. I used a Magnum 70 4 stroke with a Pitts style muffler and it balanced perfect. Make sure you balance it upside down. Used a 13/6 Evolution prop. I had none of the fit problems you had. Gear were a little tough to figure but works and looks great now.

AncientCityFlyer

Onewood, Glad your is flying nicely. Mine is sitting on a back shelf of my shop and will stay there for awhile. I just got so aggravated with it, if I went out to fly it I would probably purposely auger it in. I do plan on flying it at a later date with a Saito 82 in it, but not for quite a while, got other projects that are not the least bit aggravating. Mike

Capt Easy

I've nearly completed an electric conversion on BH Red Lion and my initial first impressions were very positive....until it it came to installing the main gear - what a pain. This is my fifth ARF and second BH. Relative inexperience and terrible instructions left me totally puzzzzzeld during that phase. I had to call HP as well and did get some advice on it but it's still a difficult issue so I'm really pleased I found this thread and intend to follow up on some of the mods.

After the gear gets sorted out CG and weight will be checked - I'm really curious now. At least it's good to know someone's had some good flying experience with it so far. It's such a great looking airplane I'd hate to just hang it up.

Any further comments would be appreciated especially advise on CG or flight performance.

Dick

_Tommy D

My Feedback: (20)

Mike

Thanks for doing so much work on the wheel pants. I adopted some of your ideas, but I wonder how well the bottom flange will hold up. The balsa is so soft <ok before a dose of CA it is> to begin with. My only thought was a few drops of clear silicone glue might also be of help here.

Adding the plywood made it difficult to get the “Part B” of the wheel pants on, for me at least. That said I’m glad I did it. Good idea on your part.

Question on the decals. I’m not so talented to be able to just peel and stick, on the 1st shot that is. I used my usual window cleaner to allow me to move the decal some. However even after a lot of blotting I have what looks like a ton of bubbles under the decal. *****ing the bubbles did not help as I assume the decal has lost it’s adhesive on these spots.

So I’m looking for tips for the decals.

Thanks

Tommy

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

Looks like the big one is in stock

Capt Easy

The decals seem to stick fine after carefully pushing all the moisture out with a soft paper towel after nudging them into final positon...