RedWing

My Feedback: (4)

I can read Post #48, no problem.
Can you read other posts that have used te RCU quote feature?

Bill

I see bubbagates beat me to it.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Bruce my wife used to come up with a blank when we tried to communicate also


I think this is the thread where he is involved with some sort of carbon fibre manufacture in china, heck suppose he could cut us a deal better than CST?

John

bruce88123

48 was and is fine. 45 was and is still a black square, the entire message area is black. Can only read the Portion on left where logo and name, etc appear. Guess it is my computer. This is only time this has happened and hopefully last. Let me try it on another browser, be right back. ok ,back. Works ok in ms internet explorer but most of my mail gets opened thru Netscape, an older version at that. Nest time I'll just look at explorer before I comment. Sorry John.
Bad browser-naughty browser. have to think of a way to punish it.[:@]

Bruc

Thanks guy

bruce88123

Not into molding yet myself, he could always get on the composites forum and see what he could do there I guess. Could probably make enough commission to pay for planes. They grow that stuff over there, never seen a carbon tree. Gotta have a little humor in life.

Bruce

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I just read all of the posts and the one thing no one even bothered to ask was where were the trim sliders on the radio set at for the ailerons. It's concievable that they were accidently moved at any point up to takeoff or even just after takeoff.

I have maidened a few of these planes and all of them needed very little trim on any surface.

It's also possible, based in the fact he has an unusual transmitter setup, that if the rudder was hard over to the left and the plane was rolling right then maybe, just maybe he got the sticks mixed up (ie dumb thumbs). Some of you had hinted at this.

Now lets break this down, with the rudder being hard over in the opposite direction of the roll this can induce an aggravated stall. As a reminder, a stall can happen at any airspeed if the wings angle of attack (AOA) is exceeded at any time or if the airflow is disrupted in some other fashion. An older CAP is a prime example of this, fly straight and level at a pretty fast speed then crank in a bunch of up elevator fairly quickly and watch it tip stall. Heck you do not even have to crank it in that fast.

In his case the plane was rolling right, left rudder was introduced so now the fuselage is beginning to block the airflow over the left wing root while still flying straight ahead, and if the yaw to the left becomes severe enough, the roll right continues because of the out of trim condition and now the plane is getting into a knife edge configuration so now the left wing is getting even less airflow and the left wing stops producing lift the right wing is dropping because of the out of trim aileron forcing the right wing down, the rudder has no more travel to help keep the plane in the knife edge configuration and on comes the stall and you are moving along at a pretty good speed with full power. The first thing the plane will do is drop the nose, then nosedive straight to the ground , the stalled wing cannot drop because it is vertical and the trim condition is still pushing the right wing around and since he had to dig the engine out and the fact that then engine was destroyed proves that the plane was moving pretty good and hit at full throttle or very close to full throttle.

After some thought, I feel it got into an aggravated stall because of too much rudder and no aileron being used to compenstate for the out of trim condition forcing the right wing down. How that out of trim condition got there is another matter that only Smoggy can answer.

The best advice I have heard and read about here on RCU is when you get out of shape, the first prioity is to get the wings level, then and only then go with elevator and/or rudder. The best way to get the wings level is aileron an if you really want to get them level quickly mix in a SMALL amount of rudder with the ailerons (start with the aileron then FOLLOW it with a small amount of rudder) now this is coordinating the turn and will help the plane level out and if this is done with every turn them the chances of an aggravated stall in a turn become quite a bit less.

OK my head hurts [&:] I'm gonna go take a nap

mrbass111

my plane did the same thing, but i was able to save it with the ailerons. after i got it down i found my rudder trim had been slid full right.

bruce88123

Pre takeoff check. One last look at all switches and trims. Make sure all controls move in the correct manner. In real airplanes(where I flew) we called it the "dead man check".

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Bruce,

I never heard it called that but it's an accurate name for it. I flew the real thing for a while. (skywriting, talk about unusual attitudes))

I would like to say I do check all of my trims right before I increase power for the takeoff run, BUT since I went to computer radios (9303 currently) I've gotten kind of slack at doing this.

It has bitten me in the past when all my trims where mechanical sliders but in both cases I was able to save the plane.

I only went into the detail I did since he has no choice but to learn on his own and even though it got kind of technical, it may help him to understand what kind of things were happening during the flight. Basically a little lesson in aerodynamics.

bruce88123

With a comp radio you can bump trim all day long and do no harm as long as power is off. I usually bump mine going in and out of car trunk 7UAFS w/mech trim.
Dragged banners behind a Stearman a few times and flown competition in a S2A at the Nationals one year(novice). Flown a variety from Cub thru CV-580 and DC-3 to one degree or another. Been in a Pitts headed straight down at 100 mph with the stall horn going, that'll get yer heart going like a 10 turn inverted flat spin. Can't play anymore since lost medical, so now I do it with the little ones. Not the same but what can you do? [] Enough crying.

Bruce[

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Bruce,

I had the same problem, lost the medical because of a heart problem so I went to the little ones. I did the Stearman thingy doing the skywriting and also the odd Waco and I would not want to have a stall horn going off in a Pitts at any time. To snappy to have that happen.

All I did was just putt around in a Cub for leasure and did skywriting almost every day. Got to take a flight in the cockpit of a 747 doing a fully automated landing, talk about wanting to grab the controls [X(].

Now I play with the biggest R/C planes I can afford and even at times, can't afford.

Agreed enough crying and sorry to get off topic

Hopefully all of the info he got from his post will help him. Reading his responses I am sure it will.

gjeffers

you guys ought to take a tanker truck full of gasoline thru a truck by pass at 60 mph and lose control in the rain because someone broke their crossover line and dumped diesel all over the road, slide sideways thru a curve and barley get control just before entering a tunnel now thats a heart killer and pants dirtyer. oh this is an airplane site, sorry but you got me excited!!!!!!!!!

Gary

bruce88123

Get to fly the BIG full motion sim's here at work on occasion, that's fun. They don't like it when you crash them tho. More than just a reset button. Waiting for a shot at the A380 sim. That is going to be running 24/7 for a while though with "real" pilots.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

gary,

I did spend 16 years as an owner operator but what you described is something I would not wish on anyone.

Bruce,

Can I come play with the A380 sim please please I got to play with some of the ones at Flight Safety a few years ago, WOW...

bruce88123

gary, why would I want to do that?

bubba- it isn't here yet. We're still a couple of years from first a/c delivery. Will probably have sim running about a year prior to first revenue flight.

gary- I did live thru 2 real airplane crashes w/o major injury. does that count for anything? Neither one my fault by the way. one plane minor damage, the other had NO reusable parts.

Bruce

gjeffers

Bubbagates

anyone with bubba in his name had to of drove a truck at least once.

Bruce88123

i guess i was jealous because i have always wanted to be a real pilot and couldnt. it would be better to go in a plane, at least there would be somthin' left to scrape up[sm=lol.gif]

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Actually I got that name after I quit driving... and it has stuck with me ever since

bruce88123

Planes burn too.

Smoggyboy

Hi from China gent's,

All the the post' have been tremendous, I have learned so much fron you guy's.

bubbagates; Thanks for the in depth view. Very Very helpfull. I won't be asleep on the airlerons next time. I am in the process of changing the mode I fligh with, so I will change, then go back to my old trainer for a confidence boost before I take my new WM SS40 up.


Sorry guys, I can't say too much about the CF Plant I am building. This sounds like bull%*&t, but it is new technology not yet in the public domain. However. what it does mean is that very soon you can expect, thinner, lighter stronger more flexable carbon fibre than anyone has ever seen before. And of course I will keep you all informed the best I can as to our progress out here, and the possibilities of distribution of samples for field testing.. Who knows, the possibilities are endless.

Thanks for the help guys, I only hope I am I a possition to return the favour some day

forestroke

smoggyboy - you can easily return the favor by:

1- successfully maidening your s(nd) ss40
2- pass on the knowledge should you find it useful to someone else one day!

good luck to you!

btw - i recently found out, japan is also on mode 2