mwita06

I am new to planes, and I don't know the difference between the two or four. Is there a benefit to one or the other? Reliability?

I am an avid racer of 1/5th scale Cars, so I am familiar with rc in general, but this will be my first plane. I have decided on the ARF Corsair 46 Sport. It can fit a engine from 45 to 60 size. I was thinking of picking up an MDS .58, but wanted to know if 4 stroke is better or worth the money.

Montague

4 strokes have several advantages and disadvantages vs 2 strokes, here's a quick list off the top of my head in no particular order:

- 4 strokes cost more
- 4 strokes sound cool in the air, more "real plane" like
- 4 strokes can swing bigger props at lower RPMS, making them great for scale and slow flying planes
- 2 strokes can hit much higher RPMs, so if you want to go really fast, 2 strokes are the way to go.
- 2 strokes have a higher power-to-weight ratio (for the most part)
- 2 strokes produce more power at the same displacement, though that's getting more even as time goes on.
- some 4 strokes can be a bit more tempermental to run, a 4 stroke can backfire and toss a prop. while it's possible for a 2 stroke as well, it's much more common in 4 strokes
- 4 strokes are more fuel efficient. Not enough to make up for the cost of the engine in fuel savings though.
- 4 strokes have more moving parts, which means more things that can break or need mantienance.
- Depending on the engine, 4 strokes can be more prone to taking damage in a crash.

For a first airplane engine, I'd say go with a 2 stroke normally, but you do have engine running experience, so I don't think it will really matter that much for you.

I have 2 4 stroke engines. One is going in a tiger moth. A slow flying bipe like that just seems so "wrong" with that 2 stroke whine coming from the cowl .

On a unrelated issue, a Corsair is NOT suitable for a first plane.

Get a trainer first. Your experience with cars will help, but trust me, it's not the same. A guy in my club raced boats competitively, but he still had a hard time learning to fly. A car, you can hit the brakes and "stop" when things go wrong. Airplanes can't just stop in place (well, they can stop in one place, but that's to be avoided).

av8er50

My Feedback: (6)

I have 3 four strokes, and I love them!! I am pretty much convinced that is the only way to go. They do cost a little more, I have bought 2 of mine here NIB from others for good prices. They do sound alot cooler especially in an war bird, bipe etc. I can usually fly twice as long on a tank of fuel with the four stroke. Matter of fact I usually get tired of flying and land for a break before I ever run out of fuel. And one of the best things is they aren't as messy as 2 strokes.
Jeff

Unstable

I will stress what Montague said.

get a trainer *before* the corsair. getting a warbird as a first plane is a sure fire way to wreck a plane.

as for an engine if you really want a corsiar pick up a .60 size trainer and a good .60 size engine (OS, Thunder tiger, etc) I have heard that MDSs can be tempermental so I would not suggest one of those. I would go with an OS because OS .61fx because it will be reliable, easy to tune, and generate plenty of power.

after you learn to fly then maybe with the help of your instructor (you are going to get help with this arent you?) then you might want to try the corsair... if not maybe a "beginners areobatic plane" like the venture 60, the four star 60, or similar would be a good next plane.

doing this you can move all the radio gear and engine from plane to plane to save money.

if you pick this up quick enough you can probably be flying your corsair before the fall but dont rush it. better to take your time and do it right then rush and end up with a pile of sticks.

but please, get a trainer plane and a instructor first before you try to take to the skies. you will not regret it.

sport10

You really should listen to what Montalogue and Unstable are saying. This Hot Body Corsair duct fan model is designed for an advanced flyer not a beginner. Your knowledge of 1/8 scale cars is only going to help you in tuning motors thats all. The rest is an entirely different ballgame. If do this right and get a trainer and a good instructor you have a good chance in succeeding in learning to fly, pick the corsair and it will probably last 10 seconds max after takeoff if that long and you very well might kill someone. Your choice!!!!

mwita06

Wow!!! I didn't know planes were so complicated to fly. The Corsair I was planning to get is not the A-7 Jet, its the F4U CORSAIR 45 GULL WING ARF. You know, the old stile one from the south pacific.
Manufacturer: Global
Wingspan: 53 in.
Wing Area: 500 sq. in.
Length: 41 in.
Flying Weight: 5-5.5 lbs.
Engine: .46-.60 2-stroke
Engine: .52-.65 4-stroke
Here is a link to the photo:
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/128260.asp

Hobbypeople is having a sale on them next weekend for $100.00 ARF Would this plane be tame enough to learn to fly, with an instructor. I don't mind taking my time. It this plane over my head?

No offence, but those trainers are some of the ugliest things in the sky. I want something with more realistic looks, or some uniqueness.

Woodsy

If for no other reason: a 2 stroke is half the price of a 4 stroke and has a much better power to weight.

on the Corsair.... well i raced 1/10 cars for years and it still took me 6 months to solo on a trainer, the cars helped with left/right orientation but other than that there are NO similarities.

Planes work in 3D, they CAN'T stop in mid air, they DO stall and fall out of the sky (normaly just low enough to smack the ground), they go inverted at the worst possible time (this buggers up the left/right orientation), they have no brakes if you over shoot the landing.
, need we go on?

mwita06

Should I get a flight simulator before I even attempt to get up in the air?

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Yup, the Corsair is a great looking plane. I wanted also something that look more like a real airplane.

Fortunately I joined a great club. I bought a trainer on the unanimous opinion of ever single member in the club! Thought that since I'd been flying Rel Flight for 6 months I wouldn't have any problems at all. T hat I'd be flying that scale in nothing flat. WRONG.

Well in a nut shell Real Flight does not help with depth perception! Nor does it help in judging the relative speed of the aircraft on the landing approach. Airplanes do not slow down with brakes they conserve energy. Nor do they self center out of turns! And inverted is a whole different ball game!

I soloed in 6 months. Been flying now 3 years. GET AN UGLY TRAINER that self corrects or a Stick thats built light. Forget about the Corsair until you have some time under your belt.

Good luck in this hobby that many call an addiction!
John

P.S. Yes the flight simulator's are worth the money - but by themselves they won't teach you to fly.

Stick Jammer

mwita06,
Listen to what the others are saying here, start out with a high wing trainer. They may be a little ugly but they're not half as ugly as that Corsair will be ten seconds after you hit the throttle.

Bruno Stachel

My Feedback: (4)

mwita 06,
These guys are right. I started in the hobby 2 years ago. I remember wanting to get into Mustangs and Corsairs ASAP. But I bought one of those ugly trainers, a Sig LT40. The first time I flew it, it was the most beautiful thing I ever saw. (Except for my wife of course.) I flew that trainer all summer and into the fall that first year. I only got tired of it after I got good at flying it. When you see your plane lift off for the first time, fly your first solo, and start greasing those landings; you'll see how beautiful your plane will be.

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

Looks are subjective. I think a trainer looks much better than the broken pieces of an F4U in the trash can at the field. If you go with the F4U, that is how yours will look very quickly.

That's not meant to be discouraging, but rather as a warning. Cars and planes are not the same, and there is a very good reason why so many trainers are sold. Airplanes aren't necessarily hard to fly, but it takes time to build the skills necessary to complete a flight. Things happen very quickly in the air. One mistake can ruin your day before you know what happened.

sport10

I would recommend to start with a inexpensive trainer with a good quality .46 BB engine and a good 6 channel computer radio for a solid start in this part of the hobby.

For a trainer look at the Tower trainer 40 sold by Tower Hobbies. This plane usually retails for around $99 dollars and flies very well and also seems to handle the wind pretty well too.

I recommend either the OS .46 FX ($109.00) or the Thunder Tiger PRO .46 ($69.00-$89.00) for an engine. The OS if money is no concern and the TT for the budget conscience beginner. The OS and TT are very similar but the OS has a hair more power.

For a radio first look and see what is predominate at the club you will be learning and get a compatible radio. A 6 channel computer radio from Futaba or JR would be an excellent setup for a beginner.

Good luck with the training and remember this is all for fun.

Pilotsmoe

The tower trainer 40 is prety good. The ARF is on sale now for $79
Comes pre-covered in monocote(not the cheap stuff)

mwita06

O.K, O.K. I'll get a trainer. I had my heart set on a Corsair, but I grab one of those ugly trainers. Thanks for the advice. It's nice to see people so passionate about their hobby. Thanks Again.

rcpilot44

My Feedback: (1)

mwita06,
You will not be sorry that you get a trainer first. The Corsair is a difficult plane to fly. Come on down to the Sepulveda basin and check it out.

Unstable

take my suggestion and buy the corsair (because thats a great deal) AND buy a .60 size trainer.

again you then can transfer the motor and radio gear to the corsair as soon as you move on from the trainer.

but be careful... if you though RC cars were addictive and a money pit you are in for a shock

DaveB

To add my .02, if you decide on a 2 stroke, buy the higher end model, e.g., OS FX46 or equivlant, for about $110.00. When I first started I bought the low end engines and I was never really happy with their performance. Too many dead stick landings.
I have had most of the low end brands (Fox, K&B, OS and Enya) and none have performed as well of the higher end OS FS or FX models in my view.

DaveB

bentgear

I think you are getting some good advise here and I think Unstable may have hit the nail on the head with the suggestion that you buy both, with the trainer being a 60 size. Move up to your dream as a second/third plane. You will already have the engine.

Unstable, the only thing you mentioned that needs clarification IMHO is that planes can in fact be much cheaper than cars. Many times I have spent more on just tires for a big sedan or paved oval race than a trainer cost, and I had a tire sponsorship. Not to mention the .12 and .21 engines that cost as much or more than an airplane engine, wear out in 3 to 5 gallons, while you are hard pressed to wear out one in the air. Spent 12 years racing competitively and don't wish to go back. Planes are more fun, cheaper, and something that I can do all by myself if nobody else shows up at the flying field.

Unstable

in the 10 or so years I have done RC cars I have a total of 3 .

in the short time I have done RC planes (little over a year) I have 7 flyable, 2 started kits, 3 that need work to fly and 3 kits in the box.

which one is less expensive

FlyingGreg

My Feedback: (4)

MWITA--you are getting excellent advise! As a former training instructor at my club, I have seen disastarous results with students trying to fly planes that are beyond their abilities--even after they have soloed with their primary trainers. start with a trainer, move to four star, tiger, or easy sport, then go with the corsair. War birds, by their nature have a heavy wing loading and need speed to take-off, fly and land.

Join a club in your area and learn to fly with on a buddy box with the club's flight instructor.


Good luck.

sport10

The TT engine that I suggested for the budget conscience beginner is just as reliable and well built as the OS engine. I know I have both. The TT has run great from the first start till now. It is on its 3rd plane now and still running strong without any deadsticks since I had it. I would not think twice about purchasing another one. Especially since I got this one for $69. The power difference between the two is around 100 rpm max and is not noticeable in the air.

mwita06

THAT'S A GOOD IDEA !!! It's tough to pass up such an obvious deal. The Corsair will be hanging from my sealing for a while.

As for the money pit. Not a chance! My 1/5 scale FG Graphite Comp. cost me $1,000 to build (retail $1,700), with plus jumbo metal gear servos, Multiplex 707, modified 6hp Zenoah, and a 2-speed (get the car up to 85 mph). Planes make it easy to part with $100 or 2, without sweating it too much.



Thanks for the advice guys, you have been very helpfull. I am going to get a 60 trainer. Talk to ya later.

mwita06

[url=http://www.geocities.com/mwita06/car.jpg][img] Trying to post a pic of my car

mwita06

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