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Old 04-12-2015, 01:49 AM
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Default Club 40 Electric

Well I'm finally getting to putting together an LA Racer 40 with electric power. Doing testing of motors, batteries, and ESC's on a test stand. Pictured below.

I made a video of the cowl, motor, battery hatch and motors.

http://youtu.be/tUdNvi4xN8w
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:56 AM
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A continuation of my work on getting an electric LA Racer 40 completed. This really isn't specific to the electric approach, but some who have not assembled an LA Racer 40 may find it of interest. I have received more of the components for the propulsion system and I'm getting closer to being able to get it finished.

http://youtu.be/WkQc8CJQ_T8
Old 04-25-2015, 01:16 AM
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I'm working with the electric propulsion systems for the LA Racer 40 using my test stand pictured in the first message.

The target range for the speed is 95 mph to 105 mph. This is compliant with the AMA 540-B document that governs Club 40 in the AMA realm. The RCPRO Club 40 Rules 2015 are an extension of the AMA rules and existed before the AMA 540-B document was established.

RCPRO is in the process of defining Club 40 Electric and my testing will have a fair amount of influence on the rules. The main thing that will change is the propulsion system and weight requirements. Most Club 40 planes are close to the 4 pound 8 ounce minimum. I expect that the electrics may be a little heavier, but we will not get to the 6 pound max weight of 540-B.

I'm working with the electric propulsion systems for the LA Racer 40 using my test stand pictured in the first message.

The target range for the speed is 95 mph to 105 mph. This is compliant with the AMA 540-B document that governs Club 40 in the AMA realm. The RCPRO Club 40 Rules 2015 are an extension of the AMA rules and existed before the AMA 540-B document was established.

RCPRO is in the process of defining Club 40 Electric and my testing will have a fair amount of influence on the rules. The main thing that will change is the propulsion system and weight requirements. Most Club 40 planes are close to the 4 pound 8 ounce minimum. I expect that the electrics may be a little heavier, but we will not get to the 6 pound max weight of 540-B.

I'm primarily working with a limited range of equipment, but I'm using data logging via a Castle Creations ICE Lite 75 speed controller to get some baseline information. I'm using these components, but will be adding more:

Turnigy G46 Brushless Outrunner 670kv (.46 Glow)

Turnigy G60 Brushless Outrunner 400kv (.60 Glow)

I have another motor on order because I meant to order the G60-500 that is a 500 Kv motor Turnigy G60 Brushless Outrunner 500kv (.60 Glow)

The batteries I'm using are:

Turnigy 3300mAh 5S 30C Lipo Pack

Turnigy 3300mAh 6S 30C T-Rex500 Pack

I did some earlier testing with a 4 cell battery, but have determined that 4 cells will only get the planes to Club 40 Bronze speed at the most.

After I got the 5S1P battery I tried it with the G46 and an APC 10x10E and got 12,000 rpm. Nice figures at a Pitch Speed of 114 mph. But the current draw was 48 amps which is above what that motor can sustain. I will try smaller props. The G46 is limited to 5 cell batteries.

I tried the 6S1P battery with the G60-400 and an APC 10x10E and got 10,500 rpm That is right at 100 mph. But the current draw was only 16 amps. So much more prop can be used.

Below are graphs of the G60 with no load and with the 10x10E.

I am concerned that 6 cell batteries may push the speeds to high for 540-B compliance. It will take actual test flying to determine that. I will be using telemetry to get flight data.

G60-400 with 6S1P and no load (no prop)


G60-400 with 6S1P and APC 10x10E
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Old 04-25-2015, 12:05 PM
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I have my servos mounted and the landing gear on. All I have to do is add the control horns. I stuck pushrods in the fuselage tubes. With a 460g (1 lb) 5S1P battery and an 11 ounce motor (G46-670) with an average weight ESC, the balance was at 2.75" with the battery all the way forward. With a 550g (1 pd 3.4 oz) 6S1P battery the balance was at about 2.25". This is way too nose heavy. So I put the 6S1P in and pushed it all the way back to the servo tray. Balance was at 3.25" which is acceptable. Except the G60-500 weighs 2 ounces more and I can't use the 6S on the G46-670. All up weight with the 5 cell is a little over 5 pounds. With the 6S it is about 5.5 pounds. So my guess is that you can just mount the ESC on the floor of the tank compartment and we're going to have to push the batteries back to the servo tray. Now I put the G60 on and see how the balance looks. Will probably have to add weight to the tail. My focus on motor testing will be on getting the most I can on the G46 with a 5S1P. By AMA 540-B, the heaviest we can go is 6 pounds. So I'm thinking 600g max for the battery with a 5 pound (or 4 lb 12 oz) minimum flying weight. Club 40 Electric is probably going to somewhat be a tinkerers event. May be able to go to 625g on the battery. We'll have to see how others come out and what the flight testing shows.
Old 04-26-2015, 01:01 PM
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Did a little testing today using the Turnigy G46 670Kv motor along with the Turnigy 5S1P 3300 mAh battery.

The basic outcome is that it looks like 6 cell batteries are going to be required to get to Club 40 Silver or Club 46 Gold speeds on Club 40 planes.

One thing I learned the hard way is don't try to drill out Master Airscrew electric props with a .4" drill. The nylon can catch the drill bit and the results are not necessarily pleasant.

This is the G46 with 5S with no prop



This is the G46 with 5S with an APC 11x7E



This is the G46 with 5S with a Master Airscrew 10x8E



The pitch speed for the 11x7 is only 88 mph and the current is about maxed out.

The pitch speed for the 10x8 is about 99 mph with the current at 41 amps and pushing the motor.

The pitch speed does not account for the drag and the additional weight of the batteries.
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Old 04-27-2015, 07:01 AM
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Here in South-Central Indiana, we preach that the more racers in the race, the better and more fun. Frankly, there has been difficulty getting more than 6 or seven entrants in any of our races. Therefore, we have tested electrified Sky Raiders. This was done using our version of the "Texas Viper Rule". (If your plane is faster than the fastest Viper, it is disqualified.) As this is our first year to add the Silver class, our testing was in the Bronze class. We found that a .25 size , 870 kva motor on a 4-cell LiPo caused it to be faster than my second plane, but not as fast as my fastest. This assessment held up on the next race date. After the actual racing, most agreed that, , if he learned to fly well, he would smoke us.

He decided racing was not his thing.

It is our experience that the electric motors are under rated. They are more powerful than the engines of the same rating.

Ken
Old 04-27-2015, 01:59 PM
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Club 40 Electric will not be raced in the same heats as glow. It is too hard to match speeds. We already have Club Wingman and some groups are doing it this year. They found the EF1 planes to be too much for newcomers and are trying Club Wingman with the EF1 power system to get increased participation.

I will probably start with the G46-670 and a 5S1P for initial flights. It will be fast enough to fly and I can easily go to the G60-500 and 6S1P or even 5S1P to see what the performance is.

I think 6 cell batteries may push the Club 40 planes beyond the AMA 540-B 100 mph allowed average speed.

I was going to try to run Club 46 at the Huntersville FAPA club at the reclaimed landfill, but they now have neighborhoods that are nearby and complaining about noise.

Yes, they found EF1 interesting, but some people don't want that kind of speed for club racing. At least not to start with.

I have been getting more and more requests to get rules for the electric class as more an more fields become electric only or primarily electric. One club I belong to had to go to court to keep their place and are very sensitive to loud planes. They have a "No Pylon Racing" clause as a result of the court and noise issue. I don't expect to ever get to have pylon racing there. But I can fly Club 40 Electric and Club Wingman planes and likely no one is going to complain.
Old 05-01-2015, 04:30 AM
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I got my G60-500 and put some 4mm bullet connectors on it. Then it was put on the test stand.


This is the G60-500 with a 5S1P battery and no prop.




This is the G60-500 with a 6S1P battery and no prop.




This is the G60-500 with a 5S1P battery and an APC 10x10E prop. Pitch Speed = 104 mph




This is the G60-500 with a 6S1P battery and an APC 10x10E prop. Pitch Speed = 124 mph




Definitely room to move up to more prop, especially on the 5 cell. I'm getting more to test. I think the 12x12E or the 13x13 narrow Warbird prop may be the ticket.

Now I'm starting to think that we may have to limit the batteries to 5 cells and a 600g max weight for Club 40 Electric. Testing will tell.

The plane should be fun regardless.
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Last edited by DonStegall; 05-02-2015 at 12:42 PM. Reason: fixed a battery spec
Old 05-12-2015, 04:04 AM
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I've been doing a lot of testing of props on the G60 500Kv motor with both 6 cell and 5 cell batteries.

A 6 cell can easily push the pitch speed to 140 mph. The approximate pitch speed of a Club 40 plane running a Thunder Tiger PRO 40 with a 9x6 prop is about 114 mph.

The highest I have gotten with a 5 cell battery is with an APC 13x13N prop cut down to be 10.5x13 and I haven't even thinned the tips out. The pitch speed of this prop is 124 mph.

An APC 12x12E is likely what I will test fly the plane with as it gets to 115 mph or so with the 5 cell.

Unless these higher pitch props can't pull the planes through the turns, we're going to have to limit Club 40 Electric to 5 cells and probably 600g with a minimum RTF weight of 5 pounds and the 540-B 6 pound maximum.
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Old 05-12-2015, 04:31 PM
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I shaped the tips and fine sanded the prop.

Current was reduced and the RPM's went up.

I will still probably test fly with the APC 12x12E and 5S1P, but it is going to be interesting to see how this prop does as it gained 4 mph of pitch speed with the tips shaped.
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Old 05-13-2015, 03:20 AM
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I did a round of testing after getting props at diameter and pitch greater than 10x10E. The goal was to try to find the limits on a teststand. Current draw will be less in the air with unloading, but if we are safe in a static test, the equipment should survive flight testing.

All testing was done with a Castle Creations ICE Lite 75 speed controller and Turnigy 3300 mAH 25-50C batteries in 5 and 6 cells. The motor used is the Turnigy G60 Brushless Outrunner 500kv (.60 Glow) which exactly matches the mounting pattern on the LA Racer 40 and Sky Raider Mach II. The constant current is not specified, but the max current is 65 amps for 15 seconds. So keeping the current below 50-55 amps should work.


This test shows that with an APC 12x10E and 5S1P (five cells), the current is well below the motor limits at 38.3 amps. The RPM is 10438 which translates to a pitch speed of 99 mph. We need a little more than that.




This test shows that with an APC 12x12E and 5S1P (five cells), the current is still below the motor limits at 45.4 amps. The RPM is 10097 which translates to a pitch speed of 115 mph. This is real close to pitch speed of a Club 40 Silver class plane.




This test shows that with an APC 11x11 Sport Prop and 5S1P (five cells), the current is lower than the 12x12E at 37.4 amps. The RPM is 10502 which translates to a pitch speed of 110 mph. The lower current draw may be better for longevity in heat races




This test shows that with an APC 12x10E and 6S1P (six cells), the current is somewhat at the motor limits at 59.6 amps. The RPM is 12464 which translates to a pitch speed of 118 mph. Probably with AMA 540-B limits.




This test shows that with an APC 12x12E and 6S1P (six cells), the current is above the motor limits at 70.3 amps. The RPM is 11898 which translates to a pitch speed of 135 mph. This will push these planes to more than the allowed 100 mph average of AMA 540-B. If the motor unloads in the air enough, the current may get acceptable if maneuvering is limited.




This test shows that with an APC 11x11 Sport Prop and 6S1P (six cells), the current is somewhat better at 53.4 amps. The RPM is 12603 which translates to a pitch speed of 131 mph. Probably above AMA 540-B limits.




Flight testing is needed to find out the "real world" performance. But I have learned that the Pitch Speed function in my Android App RC Calculators and RC Calculators Free Edition is pretty useful. I'm doing my best to get the iPhone/iPad edition done.

Based on the tests, it looks like 6 cells just have too much power for planes intended to race in AMA 540-B compliant Club 40.

There is a guy on Facebook putting a 6 cell on an 800Kv motor. He had balance issues with 640g batteries. See the thread at https://www.facebook.com/club40racin...2%3A%22R%22%7D. His plane is almost 6 pounds and I think it is going to be way too fast for 540-B racing.

The 5 cell batteries balance much better. And I think I'm leaning toward allowing any motor and any prop with a maximum battery weight of 600g and 5 cells max. The likely minimum weight will be 5 pounds ready to fly. May have to lower this to 4.75 pounds.

Part of the fun of this class will be working with motors, props, and batteries to find good performance. It will still come down to pilot skill and consistency.
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Last edited by DonStegall; 05-13-2015 at 03:29 AM.

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