Unstable

I had a hangar 9 80" cub called for a .65 4s max... i crammed a .80 in it.

you want scale. I would do low fly by at 1/4 throttle and the plane was just "put putting" along instead having a screaming 2s in the nose.

I would do scale take offs all the time but I did get in trouble a few times were i ran out of airspeed too low and had to use the power to get me out. over powering is ok but flying around scale if a thing of beauty and besides ... I can always throttle back

I have flown both scale like planes (my superchipmunk is just about scale powered) and over powered beasts (my somethin' extra) and both are fun for diffrent reasons.

i think the 3d type is more popular now cause its newer and "more extreme"

just my $0.02 keep the change

gubbs3

My Feedback: (1)

I also agree with flying the plane as it was meant to fly. If a real warbird can do huge loops, then power the model to do huge loops. But, the real bird doesn't have unlimited verticle, and can't hover. If you're flying a fun fly, then put the biggest, baddest engine you can fit in it so you can hover at 1/3 throttle and shoot up like an Estes rocket when you gun it.

Jim_McIntyre

I think scale flight is more subtle than many perceive. There is a real joy in accurately replicating the performance of a full scale aircraft that some hot dogging types may not appreciate. Conversely, there is a different kind of joy in completing that first tail touch...
Variety is my spice. I appreciate all ends of the spectrum from sailplanes making the most of what mother nature provides to overpowered heli dragracing.....

Joe B.

My Feedback: (1)

I like both. Some days I'm all wired up and just want to thrash. Other days I'm more mellow, more scale like. Those are the zen-like moments but they are few and far between. Not that my usual yank-and-bank style isn't fun - it is - just sometimes I'm more relaxed than others.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

People usually fit in one of two categories.
People who are flying to perfect their chosen SIG (enjoyment)
People who like boring holes in the sky (enjoyment)
Nothing wrong with either!

Cdallas2

Don't get me wrong I like barnstorming like the best of them. BUT seeing a .60 size P-51 hauled off the deck in 20 feet. I don't think so.

BTW smallfly. A WWII piston warbird cannot do a round loop from level flight.

SMALLFLY-

My Feedback: (19)

"Flying the P-38 Lightning in the Pacific theater Major Richard Bong was the top scoring U.S. Ace during WWII with 40 kills. A skilled flyer, Bong was noted for his silent approaches to his airfield with both engines feathered. As he swooped over the field he would loop his P-38 and land." http://usfighter.tripod.com/bong.htm

How does that sound for scale flight

phazernut

I had the privilage of watching the FAI world scale event this summer in Tillsonberg. To watch those pilots fly a beautiful replication of the real thing was an absolute treat. The amount of flying skill involved is amasing. Anyone can over-power a plane and yank it aroound the sky. It takes real skill to fly it like it was designed to fly.

Don't get me wrong I still enjoy yanking an overpowered plane around the sky as well. Watching scale flight for 5 days was like watching grass grow after a while.

Cdallas2

Ah, I see you didn't actually read mt post. I said from straight and level flight. I've seen gliders do nice big loops but always had to dive first. My point is that you are building a "SCALE" aircraft why not fly it in a scale-like manner.

My point is the same as someone who says their CAP 232 is 33% scale right after he's finished hovering it 2 feet off the runway. How can it be scale if the real one can't even come close to doing it.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

The beauty to scale like flight is having someone come up to you at an IMAA meet and remark how realistic you old Lazy Ace flys with a G-23. After non-stop 3D stuff bores everyone out of their mind.

Red S. AMA 951
Flying Gators MAC
Gainesville, FL

Jackjet

My Feedback: (1)

Pilots,
Does this mean if I build a scale Harrier jet and stuff a 40lb.thrust turbine in it- it would not be considered "scale" flight to do a V.T.O.?


Jackjet

Cdallas2

Only if you run out of fuel after 3 minutes

Spicoli

CDALLAS- "someone who says their CAP 232 is 33% scale right after he's finished hovering it 2 feet off the runway. How can it be scale if the real one can't even come close to doing it."

Scale flight and a scale plane are two different things.

stevezero

My Feedback: (11)

Cdallas,
Scale aerobatic planes really shouldnt be catagorized in "scale flight" debates, because they are getting closer and closer to models in performance.

On the Oshkosh Airventure 2002 show that has been on Speed Network a few times, Sean Tucker does hover and harrier his Challenger Bipe less than 75 feet off the deck. He is so low n close, that the camera angle is almost horizontal to him, and you can see the movement of the surfaces for corrections. He also torque rolls his plane several times, and can pretty well keep his altitude at will. Kirby Chambliss does a wall on his takeoff roll, and puts the aircraft into an extremely deep stall, throttles up, and accelerates out, all less than 75 ft off the deck. Other performers are getting lower and more radical in their flight envelopes. Jim LeRoy (www.bulldogairshows.com go to the videos page and dload the 1999promo.mpeg) does a magnificent low rolling harrier pass in his bipe. He also torque rolls his plane, and does a knifeedge spin that I thought was only possible with a model. Gary Ward, whom I had never heard of before this past weekend, did the most amazing performance with a giles 202 I have ever seen. He twists and tumbles about as if hes flying a 60 sized plane, not a full scale. Torque rolls, knifeedge spins (climbing and descending), cartwheels, low inverted passes, a fully flat upright flat spin, and an inverted flat spin where the tail progressed to 30-45 degrees below the prop were all part of his routine. Shoot, even Charlie Culp, the flyin farmer does high alpha maneuvers with a cub (including a loop to knifeedge pullout less than 100ft off the deck). 1 wheel touch n go's that run a good 2000 feet on the left front, etc.
On the Oshkosh video, theres a guy who takes a Lear 23 (serial #9 off the assembly line) who takes off and immediately rolls the aircraft, while pulling up the gear. Not feasible with passengers, but makes for one heck of a show.

I firmly believe the top aerobatic pilots watch the model flights for inspiration, and look for ways to emulate it, just as we try to emulate their maneuvers. As soon as someone gets a 1.5 or 2 to 1 power to weight ratio you will see what we call 3d flying become standard at airshow center. Leo Loudenschalger was working on his shark design, that is the closest full scale "funfly/3d plane" design out there. 65 degrees +/- elevator/rudder throw in any direction, as well, as smaller surfaces within the larger surfaces for precision maneuvers. Do a search on here for his name/plane, and find the link to the video file. They are only limited on horsepower and prop effectiveness.

Not attacking anyone, just providing some insight after spending a weekend at an airshow where scale flying was a relative term

Steve

SigKavalier

Ok well I've seen models that I thought needed more power. Especially when a saw a large scal Extra 300 flop over in a loop. P-51's are a unique bird because they're supposed to be fast. Although most I've seen don't have a scale wing so not only are they really fast but they land a lot slower. I read stories of that crazy WWII P-38 pilot he also was notorious for pulling contrail off the wings before landing. I've also read a real report from a pilot in a P-47 who tried to do the same thing and almost killed himself trying. My biggest thing is with people who tell me I need more power. Sometimes before the plane even flies. I have no problem with someone who wants to fly fast or hover it's just those who think every plane should be a HP hog. For example I say I'm building a "pick a plane" the first question asked is "What engine are you using?". Now I'm not power shy but I tend to go with the largest recommended engine. Sometimes I'll go larger if I already have an engine close to it and don't want to buy another. So I say "I'm running a magnum .40 XL (in a plane rated for a .40 max)" The instant reply is "I'd put a bigger motor in it.". For example someone had suggested to me in another thread to run a .61 in a plane that wasn't even rated for the .40 I was putting in it. I mean I fly how I want and don't really care how everyone else flies but at times it's like riding my Kawasaki Ninja 500. Yet every time I park next to a bigger sport bike or worse a Harley I get the "You oughta get a bigger bike." or "You oughta get something with some real power." cracks. When my Ninja power wheelies in second and tops out at 138mph. For example I started out with gliders and then electric flyers. I naturally from habbit tend to oversand and shave weight at every step. When I sand a wing the skin is almost see through. But I've never had anything come apart or break. I always use the closest thing I have to the maximum rated engine size and all my planes have what I consider a lot of extra power. So when I hear of someone over powering their plane I think of three things. Either A. They built it heavy and it needs it. B. They lack the piloting to fly without it (actually thats what my dad thinks) but I've seen people power out of some things that I expected to see splinters yet could have been avoided. Or C. They're speed nuts. As I said in my original post 3D planes I don't count because they're supposed to be over powered. I guess it all has to do with the way a person starts flying because I see a lot of other people especially people who fly gliders who see things as I do.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I hate scale flight. If I wanted something to fly scale, I'd buy the full size plane, or two or three. I like models for what they are. My R/C planes are not a substitute for the real thing. They ARE the real thing.

With that said, it doesn't bother me if other people want to fly in a scale-like fashion. I don't care how they fly, as long as it is safe. I'd appreciate the same courtesy from them.

TIGER2PLANE

You said a mouth full, just keep that train of thought.

teefly-RCU

recently posted on this subject and saw the next response was........might as well fly a pickle. Pickle? CG Extra w/YS 120 doing scale manuevers (like a full scale REALLY flies!) a pickle? Or a giant scale Pitts a foot off the tarmack inverted? Pickle? The safety issue speaks for itself.........crashing alot of planes? The plane is flying YOU!

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

Corvette

Pinto

Vega


i don't like to drive 155MPH put i sure do perfer the vett over the other 2 choices

LA or FX 40 same price i would choose the FX. I like not having to strane a motor to fly around.

Trident

Cdallas2,

You said "BTW smallfly. A WWII piston warbird cannot do a round loop from level flight."

You kidding right! I have seen numorous demonstrations with stock Mustangs do that and more. At one airshow in 1985 in Alabama I saw one of the most inspiring performances ever where the pilot not only did perfect loops, he did nearly everything else in the book, including Knife edge flight. And on video I have Bob Hoover performin a SQUARE LOOP with 4-POINT ROLLS. . . in a Mustang!

However I am still a proponent of scale flight. The fact is scale models must sacrifice their inertia to do such manuevers that maintain the correct speed for a given scale. A good scale pilot that can perform scale manuevers demonstrates ability that is beyond some modelers comprehension.

I don't mean to start anything here, I just wanted to add my two cents worth.

trailingedge

My Feedback: (1)

HHHMMM well just exactly what is scale flight anyway? I've seen a mustang at level flight at tree level shoot straight up into the sky until it was a tiny dot (took my breath..it was beautiful). I also hear stories from my dad of pilots in Vietnam who flew planes that looked like J3 Cubs with turboprops and military paint (birddog??? I dunno) Pointing the nose up and the throttle up and hovering while they dropped leaflets out the windows. Scale flight?? It seams to me that scale flight is from someones point of view. I think that TRUE scale flight would take much study of the full scale planes and the pilots who flew them. I'm not saying that no one has done that nor have I seen scale flying contests. I'm just saying that there's more to scale flight than a pretty take off, a pretty oval, and a pretty landing. If you're flying your mustang hard, you're probably flying closer to scale than you think.

That's my thoughts...take it or leave it.

rcgear

It is very true that many warbirds could do very large loops but you have to consider the maneuver required prior to this large loop. A corsair for exampla had to place itself in a dive to gain airspeed prior to doing such a maneuver. Very few maneuvers were initiated from level flight. In flying scale the same reality must be achieved.

It really doesn't matter how large of an engine you feel you need. Just fly it properly, be considerate of others. Scale flight is my favorite and I also enjoy 3D but when I intend to hog the airspace (and I do tend to do that from time to time) I always ask fellow flyers for their permission to fly by myself for 15 minutes. Wow! Cosideration of others! What a concept!

Idaho Airships

I don't understand this "Flying Scale" thing. It simply seems like an invitation to frustration.

Where would you attach the servos?

ajvpb

My Feedback: (3)

There is a guy in my club that has a .60 size Ultra stick, but has a 120 ys fourstroke. It has an 18x8 prop, and it looks like 5 inch wheels he needs for the ground clearance, While it is impressive watching a 1/2 thottle verticle climb, sometimes I have to shake my head. Does the extremely high cost of that engine justify its use. I think not, it would be different if it were a nice scale plane, like a p-51 built for that engine. The extra wieght of the wheels, engine and the tail weight he has on it seem to cancel out the positives. I am starting a p-51 and hope to be able to do scale flight with it, with a roll probably being the most aerobatic. I am truly looking forward to my 4 stroke humming away in a low pass with a not so steep steep, but not so mild climb out. I am getting giddy just thinking about it.

rc.hackmaster

My Feedback: (4)

i have a h-9 cessna 182, i started with a 46fx but moved to a saito 65 4c. power is nice to have, but i fly at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle all the time. long rollouts and scale landings with the flaps down (modification and works great) scale flight is fun, but i also like to toss around my 40 size ultra stick. i seem to prefer scale because it is challenging to get the perfect flight. just my 2c worth