Tommy_Gun

Launched it with the wrong model selected on my transmitter. Aileron were reversed. My own stupid fault.

So now then,

Will the fan unit from the F86 work in the Huckebein?

I understand the Huck comes with the motor installed but I think its a brushed 300.

Is it a straght across transplant?

TIA

Woody 51

Hi Flinvr

1)Yes, the Fan in the F86 is indentical to that in the Huck.
2)Yes, the Huck comes with a Speed 300 installed.

Just drop the Brushless motor/fan combo from the F86 into the Huck. Mounting points are also indentical as are screw holes.

If you have to use the fan unit in the Huck, you will need a Pinion Puller to remove the pinion from the front of the Speed 300, to get that motor out of the fan housing. The pinion is held in with Green Loctite, so will need a little bit of force to brake the "grip".

Use the same stuff to mount and hold the pinion on the front of the brushless motor substitute. There should have been a sachet or small bottle of it, in with the Sabre kit. It's more effective than epoxy or CA.

Now,turning to the Huckebein.........

The Huck is not as easy to assemble as the F86.

Unlike the F86, it has butt joined wings (to the sides of the fuselage) and surface preparation needs to be very thorough. REMOVE ALL THE PAINT from the fuselage sides INSIDE the wing profiles moulded into the fuselage sides, with emery paper and then poke as many small holes as you can into the same area with a pin.

Use 30 minute epoxy, smeared on liberally, to attach the wings. Glue is your friend here, don't skimp on it. Many have, both on the Huck and the Mig, which has its wings joined to the fuselage the same way and their models have paid the ultimate price. a couple of extra grams of weight from the extra glue isn't going to make any difference to the way the model flies.

When you come to glue the wing fillets onto the model, DO THE SAME THING AGAIN as it is these that give the wing joins, strength.

Once they're glued on, that's it, they stay there.

Don't glue the rear of the fusealge to the model as the instructions state. Instead, follow the steps (photo steps only, no written instructions) on the Alfa website, to epoxy 4 flat ply "pegs into the rear join. Then drill and tap screw holes/threads into the other end , through the fusleage sides and use NYLON screws to attach and hold the 2 halves together. Use the end of a slightly larger drill bit, to cut the bolt head recesses into the outer fuselage sides.

I have uploaded 2 of those photo's for you. A picture is worth a thousand words after all.

It's not that hard a job and makes more sense than glueing the 2 together as per the instructions (and then finding that you need to adjust the elevator pushrod at the servo!!?!!)

Flying the Huck is slightly different as well. It has a "T-Tail" and is prone to having the tail stall if you pull on too much elevator at low speed. The model just goes into a tumble. Alfa mention this characteristic in the flying instructions. Nothing to be too concerned about, just keep it in mind.

How badly damaged is the F86? 5 minute epoxy glues these foam models back together easily. Can the "jigsaw" be repaired with epoxy and the model put back into the air, rather than buying a new Huck?

Tommy_Gun

Hey woody,

Thanks for the response.

Glad to know I can just drop the assembled fan unit into the Huck.

I thought of repairing the 86 but its just too bashed up to think about.

Only got 6 flights on it and Im kinda sick thinking about it.

Luckily the Huck is in stock at the LHS in Sacramento.

Woody 51

Good luck Flin.

My Huck has the MP JET 25/26-26 Mk 2 motor and I will stay with that in that model. It does everything I want it to do and I cannot see the need for any extra speed.

Anyway, Alfa say that performance wise, their fan is good up to about 40,000rpm and anything above that (rpm wise) will give little benefit in extra performance. What it will do though is give extra heat build up and higher current draw.

Here are some results of testing done by Alfa with different motors in their fan. (From their website for those who don't want to believe.)

Motor type Battery pack(Kokam) RPM[1/min] Current[A] ESC

MP Jet 25-25/26 Mk.2 K 1250 HD /15C/ 3S 36000 10.0 18amp
K 1500 HD /8C/ 3S 34000 8.3 12amp
MEGA 16/7/4 K 1250 HD /15C/ 3S 40000 12.0 25amp
K 1500 HD /8C/ 3S 36000 10. 0 18amp
Model Motors 1215/12 K 1250 HD /15C/ 3S 40000 14.0 25amp
K 1500 HD /8C/ 3S 36000 11.0 25amp
Hacker B20 22S K 1250 HD /15C/ 3S 38000 9.7 18amp
K 1500 HD /8C/ 3S 36000 8.5 10amp
Speed 300/6V K 1250 HD /15C/ 2S 32000 10.0 10amp
NiHM 650 × 8 31500 9.0 10amp

As you can see, the Mega and also the Model Motors (AXI) motors, give an extra 4000 rpm over the MPJET 25/25-26 Mk 2 using a 15C pack and the relevant size ESC.

A friend also has an Alfa Mig powered by Mega 16/7/4 and his does the ROG thing off its belly. Not for me though, where I fly is extremely rough and dirty. The main problem would be dirt and gravel ingestion into the fan blades which would carve them up pronto, neccesitating a fan replacement.

The Mega installation did require a good deal of dremeling of the motor housing interior to make it fit.

As for the Sabre, so far the only one I have seen here downunder, was a private import by a guy who could not wait for the local Alfa distributor to think about bringing one in. Wish he would hurry up and stop thinking and just do it.

Tommy_Gun

Hey Woody

Thanks for the tech data.

While the 86 was not as fast as my Alfa WW2 fighters, I see no need to mod it for further speed.
As it was it flew just great.

Woody 51

You're right about the WW2 fighters being quicker than the EDF's. I also have the Alfa P47 and FW-190, both powered by Speed 300/5:1 Gearbox/Lipo set ups. The Fw-190 is sightly quicker and the P47 slightly slower (that fat, draggy, fuselage) than the TA183.

Coversion to Outrunners would change this, but I'm happy with what I have, so it won't happen.

I have a couple of Outrunner powered "Hotliners" for when I need to feed the speed demon!

Oh, you will find that apart from the initial aileron "UP" trim settings, (to avoid tip stall) the settings given for the TA183 by Alfa are over the top.

But this also applies for their prop models as well. How did you find the settings given for the Sabre?

Good luck.

Tommy_Gun

I have been playing in RC since 1976 and have developed my own sense of TLAR on what works.

I set all my controls up with neutral being centered on the elevator and ailerons and set the throws as instructed.

OK well, maybe I did have more aileron throw than they directed.

BTW I also noted that the roll was faster in one direction than the other.

Think this is a result of the torque of that high revving fan?

Woody 51

I would say "YES." I notice that most of my prop models (both electric and glow) roll and spin better one way than the other-prop torque being the obvious factor. (The exception is my .40 powered "Precedent FunFly", which spins and rolls nicely in either direction- a great little airplane.)

I see no reason why a fan would not do the same.

I do set my Alfas with 3-4 mm "Up" on both ailerons. I tried my P47 without and it made no difference to the actual flying performance, but yes, it did tip stall at slow speed, resulting in liberal doses of 5 Epoxy being mixed for the repair. So the "UP" went back on. I have left it at that with all the other Alfa's in the "hangar."

Tommy_Gun

Maidened the Huck this morning and its faster than the F86 was.

Something I have noticed with both of them,
They seem to be willing to over rotate as you try to establish your bank angle to pull a turn.
It's nothing treacherous, just a neat little trait that adds to the charachter.

The Huck has a VERY distinctive look in the air and was a hoot to fly.

Maybe another F86 will join her in a bit.

Woody 51

What motor/battery/ESC set up Flin?

Tommy_Gun

MpJet 2525/26 , CC Phoenix 25, TP 1320 to Apogee 1570

Work good, last long time.

Flew the Huck today after I maidened my H9 P40. The spectators seemed to enjoy the "flying pissed off hair dryer" better thanthe P40.

The H9 P40 only needs 1/2 throttle on an OS91 Surpass BTW. What a sweet flying plane it is!

Woody 51

Thanks Flin,

I get a similar response here from fellow modellers whenever I trot out ANY of my Alfa Foamies. The Huck is an unusual airplane and certainly draws attention.

The fact that all my Lipo powered models, whether they be foamies or one of my Hotliners, get 3 to 4 times MORE flying time from a set of batteries than they do out of a tank of model fuel, is another thing that some folk find hard to get used to.

All are amazed and a few get really pissed off, though I can't figure out why.

I think the new technology threatens their out of date (but still freely offered around) theories about electrics.