Castor oil - A final word?
12-13-2007, 06:15 PM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
Castor Oil - the last word... heh heh.. I don't think there will ever be a "last word" on this subject.
When I first flew RC in 1976, this debate was well and truly in progress and evidently, decades later, is still going strong.
I am a fence-sitter: I use both the pink Omega (synth/castor) and straight synthetic, depending on the engine. The first time I used any synthetic oil at all (either straight or in the Omega blend) was in 2004.
This is what I don't like about both:
Synthetic:
1) I hate the smell
2) Its corrosion resistance is not as good. In storage, between flights, the Omega oil protects against corrosion much better.
Synthetic/Castor:
1) Carbon build-up. Using castor will result in build-up of carbon in key areas like the exhaust valve stem on a four-stroke. If you don't see this on your four-stroke, you aren't flying it hard enough. 20-30 hours of hard use with castor in your oil can result in enough carbon to prevent the valve closing fully. I have seen this on my own engines.
2) Gumming. This can happen in an engine that is in storage, or in use. Rings can be gummed up in their grooves in some cases; I recently had to de-gum my FSR .60's ring to get compression back, after running it on a diet of 80/20 full castor. Congealed oil in the rear bearing is a common sight in engines that have run on straight castor and been put in storage. The upside of this is that corrosion protection is superior to synthetic.
3) Baked on crud. That unsightly brown gunk is your constant companion with a castor blend.
I have seen the insides of lots of engines that have been flown hard and stripped; I have yet to see any evidence of oil film failure or breakdown. The causes of damage I have seen can be summed up as follows:
1) Foreign Object Damage
2) Overheating (melted pistons, detonation, plug failure) due to excessive leanness
3) Bearing cage failure due to corrosion related damage
4) Crank, Rod or Piston structure failure
That old fashioned nostalgic part of me insists that I need to have castor in my fuel for any ABN/ABC two stroke, especially if it has a tuned pipe fitted. And so it is. Call it an irrational state of peace of mind. For my four-strokes, I use full synthetic and put up with the bad exhaust smell because I see no compelling reason to run castor in my four-strokes.
Synthetic oil technology has come a long way in the last few decades. There are guys raving about newer synthetics I haven't yet tried (Coopers, Motul Micro for example). Castor (Castrol R) used to be the top dog; so too were wooden tennis rackets, square rigged ships and the IBM S/360 mainframe computer. It's 2007 now - technology has moved on.
When I first flew RC in 1976, this debate was well and truly in progress and evidently, decades later, is still going strong.
I am a fence-sitter: I use both the pink Omega (synth/castor) and straight synthetic, depending on the engine. The first time I used any synthetic oil at all (either straight or in the Omega blend) was in 2004.
This is what I don't like about both:
Synthetic:
1) I hate the smell
2) Its corrosion resistance is not as good. In storage, between flights, the Omega oil protects against corrosion much better.
Synthetic/Castor:
1) Carbon build-up. Using castor will result in build-up of carbon in key areas like the exhaust valve stem on a four-stroke. If you don't see this on your four-stroke, you aren't flying it hard enough. 20-30 hours of hard use with castor in your oil can result in enough carbon to prevent the valve closing fully. I have seen this on my own engines.
2) Gumming. This can happen in an engine that is in storage, or in use. Rings can be gummed up in their grooves in some cases; I recently had to de-gum my FSR .60's ring to get compression back, after running it on a diet of 80/20 full castor. Congealed oil in the rear bearing is a common sight in engines that have run on straight castor and been put in storage. The upside of this is that corrosion protection is superior to synthetic.
3) Baked on crud. That unsightly brown gunk is your constant companion with a castor blend.
I have seen the insides of lots of engines that have been flown hard and stripped; I have yet to see any evidence of oil film failure or breakdown. The causes of damage I have seen can be summed up as follows:
1) Foreign Object Damage
2) Overheating (melted pistons, detonation, plug failure) due to excessive leanness
3) Bearing cage failure due to corrosion related damage
4) Crank, Rod or Piston structure failure
That old fashioned nostalgic part of me insists that I need to have castor in my fuel for any ABN/ABC two stroke, especially if it has a tuned pipe fitted. And so it is. Call it an irrational state of peace of mind. For my four-strokes, I use full synthetic and put up with the bad exhaust smell because I see no compelling reason to run castor in my four-strokes.
Synthetic oil technology has come a long way in the last few decades. There are guys raving about newer synthetics I haven't yet tried (Coopers, Motul Micro for example). Castor (Castrol R) used to be the top dog; so too were wooden tennis rackets, square rigged ships and the IBM S/360 mainframe computer. It's 2007 now - technology has moved on.
12-13-2007, 08:58 PM
#503
RE: Castor oil - A final word?
Last season I saw a guy fry a brand new Magnum .91 two stroke in some sort of
a stunt plane. Three flights of about 10 seconds each, and the engine was toast.
He had all the sins....a cowled engine, too much prop (what else is new), a Pitts
muffler, and the final flaw....15% Cruel Power. The engine was overheating right
after take-off. The Magnum is an ABC type engine....ringless and tight. He had two
chances running the Cruel Power in a new engine....slim, and none.
I set the needle on the third flight, and flew the plane.....no good. After the third
deadstick the engine was devoid of compression....ruined. If your engine overheats
it can be ruined without the saving grace of the castor.
Pass the paper towels, please.
FBD.
a stunt plane. Three flights of about 10 seconds each, and the engine was toast.
He had all the sins....a cowled engine, too much prop (what else is new), a Pitts
muffler, and the final flaw....15% Cruel Power. The engine was overheating right
after take-off. The Magnum is an ABC type engine....ringless and tight. He had two
chances running the Cruel Power in a new engine....slim, and none.
I set the needle on the third flight, and flew the plane.....no good. After the third
deadstick the engine was devoid of compression....ruined. If your engine overheats
it can be ruined without the saving grace of the castor.
Pass the paper towels, please.
FBD.
12-13-2007, 09:14 PM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: Harry Lagman
Castor Oil - the last word... heh heh.. I don't think there will ever be a "last word" on this subject.
When I first flew RC in 1976, this debate was well and truly in progress and evidently, decades later, is still going strong.
I am a fence-sitter: I use both the pink Omega (synth/castor) and straight synthetic, depending on the engine. The first time I used any synthetic oil at all (either straight or in the Omega blend) was in 2004.
Castor Oil - the last word... heh heh.. I don't think there will ever be a "last word" on this subject.
When I first flew RC in 1976, this debate was well and truly in progress and evidently, decades later, is still going strong.
I am a fence-sitter: I use both the pink Omega (synth/castor) and straight synthetic, depending on the engine. The first time I used any synthetic oil at all (either straight or in the Omega blend) was in 2004.
The first 200 hours were spent running a fuel with 20% of Coolpower Pink (castor/synth) and on inspection, the piston crown and head both had a good layer of carbon on them. This was scraped off before the engine was reassembled after the bearings were fitted.
This same engine was then flown for another 100 hours or so on the same brew, before I switched to 12% of Coopers' Plus C oil (for another 80 hours).
This time, when stripped down, the piston and head were totally devoid of any kind of carbon build-up -- just slightly stained.
The rest of the engine was spotless too -- having just a light brown sheen to it from the *small* amount of castor this fuel contains. Not a spot of rust anywhere to be seen -- despite the fact it gets stored in a corrugated iron hangar all year round, suffering the full range of temperature and humidity that NZ's weather can offer.
There is *no* sign of significant wear anywhere in this engine (other than the bearings I'm replacing). The big-end and wrist-pin slop appears the same as that on a brand new TT46Pro and there is no sign of any wear or scuffing on the piston or liner.
It would appear that 80 hours on 12% oil has done nothing to harm this engine and has in fact, cleaned its internals up a little after the previous 100 hours on CoolPower Pink.
I fully expect to get another 200-300 hours out of this engine and I think it conclusively proves that if you use the right oil, 12% is more than enough. We're laughing all the way to the bank around here -- spending less on oil, getting great protection, better performance and less mess to boot. The only things I run on Morgan/CoolPower's castor/synth blend now are my plain-bearing engines.
It's a shame that so many people still pay big money for "average" oils and then find themselves having to use 50% more than they would otherwise need, just to make up for the lesser protection they offer. Chances are they also have to use an extra 5% nitro to make up for the penalty that extra oil inflicts on performance too.
Grant, when you come down to Tokoroa (when's that), you'll have to see how well this juice works :-)
12-13-2007, 10:01 PM
#505
RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: Kweasel
After 4000 posts two things remain constant. Castor is still extremely nasty to use, and "synthetic" is not causing any acute problems. How many engines seize on a given weekend at your flying site?
After 4000 posts two things remain constant. Castor is still extremely nasty to use, and "synthetic" is not causing any acute problems. How many engines seize on a given weekend at your flying site?
Geez...I don't understand how you can use the words "extremely nasty" when you're talking about Castor? Maybe I don't have hundreds and hundreds of hours on any one engine to get accumulated carbon or a bunch of gunk baked on the outside so I have yet to see that problem. I don't let them get that hot either, so...?
The only gripe I might have is that, in a long term storage, it could harden in the engine and make the bearings feel rough, but some gummout jet spray carb cleaner will rinse that right out.
I've got nothing against synthetic oil except the "nasty" smell...new synthetic oils are cool too...and fuelman's car fuel has some of that modern synthetic, and it's great stuff! (along w/ Castor and IIRC total oil content is 9%...please correct me if I'm wrong Brian ) Personally, I couldn't give a rat's if somebody wants to run an all synth. fuel...I just don't want to be standing down wind
I have not seen or heard of any siezed airplane engines in the two clubs I belong to in several years...why do you ask?
Just one more question...
Kweasel, or any of you guys who don't like Castor...
Do you fly any Cox engines???
12-13-2007, 10:14 PM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
I think he's talking about Omega not Coolpower but Omega only has 17% oil 30/70 cast/syn
Xjet do you know who in the US sells the Coopers ? I'm game I never turn down more power
Xjet do you know who in the US sells the Coopers ? I'm game I never turn down more power
12-13-2007, 10:52 PM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
In Australia and New Zealand, as far as I know "Omega" as a brand (by Morgan Fuels) is not sold locally. We only have that *wonderful* green stuff
I also believe that if you use quality castor and tune correctly, you don't end up with as much carbon on your piston top etc as some would have you believe.
I switched from my usual (quality) castor to castor of dubious quality (I inherited it), and I can see the carbon building up way more than it used to ...
I also believe that if you use quality castor and tune correctly, you don't end up with as much carbon on your piston top etc as some would have you believe.
I switched from my usual (quality) castor to castor of dubious quality (I inherited it), and I can see the carbon building up way more than it used to ...
12-14-2007, 01:24 AM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: skiman762
I think he's talking about Omega not Coolpower but Omega only has 17% oil 30/70 cast/syn
Xjet do you know who in the US sells the Coopers ? I'm game I never turn down more power
I think he's talking about Omega not Coolpower but Omega only has 17% oil 30/70 cast/syn
Xjet do you know who in the US sells the Coopers ? I'm game I never turn down more power
The CoolPower Pink oil (castor/synth blend) we buy here is the same oil as used in the Omega fuel that's sold in the USA and the CoolPower Blue is a fully synth that is the same as used in the fuel American's know as "CoolPower".
It's confusing eh?
Surprisingly, most keen Kiwi fliers seem to mix their own fuel (or buy it from a club that mixes it for its members) rather than go for store-bought. You can sure save a fist-full of money by doing this.
The price of a US gallon of glow fuel around here can be as much as $50 (for 10% nitro) but it can be mixed from bulk ingredients for significantly less than that.
Our club burns about 300 litres of fuel a year (that's nearly 100 US gals) and we save a fortune by making our own.
It also means we can tweak the formula to suit individuals and their engines. Some don't want any nitro (for instance) -- that's no problem. Some want all-castor.. again that's not a problem.
12-14-2007, 01:36 AM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
Kia-ora Bro!
We do same here in my club. No-one, I mean no-one, buys overpriced commercial fuel. I mix my own. Other flyers buy the club generic mix (10% nitro, 20% Cool Power). I choose not too ...
I have never seen the pink stuff (Omega) over here. I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shop (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
Is there a dealer that you know of in Australia who sells Coopers?
We do same here in my club. No-one, I mean no-one, buys overpriced commercial fuel. I mix my own. Other flyers buy the club generic mix (10% nitro, 20% Cool Power). I choose not too ...
I have never seen the pink stuff (Omega) over here. I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shop (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
Is there a dealer that you know of in Australia who sells Coopers?
12-14-2007, 08:31 AM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: XJet
Here in NZ we can buy Morgan's synthetic and synth/castor blended oil (it's all branded "Cool Power") and make our own fuel.
The CoolPower Pink oil (castor/synth blend) we buy here is the same oil as used in the Omega fuel that's sold in the USA and the CoolPower Blue is a fully synth that is the same as used in the fuel American's know as "CoolPower".
It's confusing eh?
Surprisingly, most keen Kiwi fliers seem to mix their own fuel (or buy it from a club that mixes it for its members) rather than go for store-bought. You can sure save a fist-full of money by doing this.
The price of a US gallon of glow fuel around here can be as much as $50 (for 10% nitro) but it can be mixed from bulk ingredients for significantly less than that.
Our club burns about 300 litres of fuel a year (that's nearly 100 US gals) and we save a fortune by making our own.
It also means we can tweak the formula to suit individuals and their engines. Some don't want any nitro (for instance) -- that's no problem. Some want all-castor.. again that's not a problem.
ORIGINAL: skiman762
I think he's talking about Omega not Coolpower but Omega only has 17% oil 30/70 cast/syn
Xjet do you know who in the US sells the Coopers ? I'm game I never turn down more power
I think he's talking about Omega not Coolpower but Omega only has 17% oil 30/70 cast/syn
Xjet do you know who in the US sells the Coopers ? I'm game I never turn down more power
The CoolPower Pink oil (castor/synth blend) we buy here is the same oil as used in the Omega fuel that's sold in the USA and the CoolPower Blue is a fully synth that is the same as used in the fuel American's know as "CoolPower".
It's confusing eh?
Surprisingly, most keen Kiwi fliers seem to mix their own fuel (or buy it from a club that mixes it for its members) rather than go for store-bought. You can sure save a fist-full of money by doing this.
The price of a US gallon of glow fuel around here can be as much as $50 (for 10% nitro) but it can be mixed from bulk ingredients for significantly less than that.
Our club burns about 300 litres of fuel a year (that's nearly 100 US gals) and we save a fortune by making our own.
It also means we can tweak the formula to suit individuals and their engines. Some don't want any nitro (for instance) -- that's no problem. Some want all-castor.. again that's not a problem.
I remember years ago we had a hobby shop that kept 55 gallon drums of fuel and sold it way cheaper then the gallon jug price if you brought your jug in
12-14-2007, 09:14 AM
#513
RE: Castor oil - A final word?
I added 1-1/2 oz of castor to my PM 20/20 for my old YS 1.10 and had no problems whatsoever for 3 years. But I only ran about 5-6 gallons a year through it. The only reason I added it was for a little extra rust protection.
I am wondering if I should do the same with my 2 new YS 1.10's,63 and 1.40S. I know Troy says no castor, but a little like I am talking about I do not think will accumilate enough to cause a problem.
I am wondering if I should do the same with my 2 new YS 1.10's,63 and 1.40S. I know Troy says no castor, but a little like I am talking about I do not think will accumilate enough to cause a problem.
12-14-2007, 10:01 AM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
Dave, when I owned YSs I never ran castorless fuel, it was not a problem. My two 17 year Saitos have never had fuel without castor they've never had a problem either.
12-14-2007, 02:03 PM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: fiery
I have never seen the pink stuff (Omega) over here. I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shopr (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
I have never seen the pink stuff (Omega) over here. I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shopr (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
Is there a dealer that you know of in Australia who sells Coopers?
12-14-2007, 02:10 PM
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: Kweasel
After 4000 posts two things remain constant. Castor is still extremely nasty to use, and "synthetic" is not causing any acute problems. How many engines seize on a given weekend at your flying site?
After 4000 posts two things remain constant. Castor is still extremely nasty to use, and "synthetic" is not causing any acute problems. How many engines seize on a given weekend at your flying site?
12-14-2007, 10:45 PM
#519
RE: Castor oil - A final word?
This is from the other thread. I thought it would add some fire here.
ORIGINAL: Fuelman
This has to be one of my more enjoyed subjects, mostly because it brings forth numerous debates.
Bax has chimed in with what he see's on his end of the industry and why. I have to agree with him, the rc car crowd has demanded snappier and snappier throttle response. The only real easy way to do that is to lower the oil contents of the fuels. This of course leads to engine life that is drastically shorter (in run time) for most if not all of the engines out there. The best of the rc car engine people out there are only going to have engine life marginaly greater than those of the ham fisted racer.
As for oil content, an rc car engine will run just fine on higher lube fuels, say for instance the assortment of 16-20% oil fuels. They will NOT have as much snap in the throttle as a low oil fuel and they will probably have a slightly lower top end rpm. They will also consume a larger volume of fuel when higher oil fuel is used in rc cars.
Inside the engine, the conecting rod journals are where the lubrication is needed the most. Followed by the piston to sleeve interface, followed by the bearings. It is the rod journals that take the biggest beating and why you need adequate lubrication. The bearings can survive on a lot less oil than any car fuel has. As for the piston and sleeve, yes, adequate oil film is needed there but in the rc car world, lack of oil probably kills fewer pistons/sleeves than does over-cooling and poor break-in.
Yes and no, true car racers usually have less full throttle time on the engine than part throttle, but that does not mean it does not need less oil. High end racers throw away engines after just a few races and sometimes only get one race from an engine, enough said.
OK, first of all, if gasoline two stroke engines had oilite bronze bushed connecting rod journals (instead of caged needle bearings), you would need a lot more than 2-3% lubrication in the gas. Next, gasoline is not as dry a fluid as methanol/nitromethane. Gasoline actually has a slight lubrication value to it, methanol and nitromethane are pure solvents.
Not as simple as you might think. First off, most of the rc car engines are way overcooled and do not achieve optimum tempretures to have a zero clearance fit between the piston and sleeve, whereas ABC type airplane engines have much smaller heat sinks and will quicker get to operating temps and stay there. In the ABC type engine, a lack of heat can ruin the fit of the piston and sleeve just as quick as ultra low oil contents and running too lean. If you expel too much heat too quick, you will not maintain high enough combustion tempretures to have efficient burn, this causes operators to overlean an engine to get it to run clean when in fact they should have blocked off some of the cooling. This is more of an issue with rc cars.
Yes, you got it. See, their marketing works. Design obsolescence at its finest. Everything on an rc car is designed to maximize profit, not longevity. It has been this way for so long that the market is conditioned to short life and high dollars.
As far as lubrication goes, there are several philosophies and unfortunatly the driving force is what will the market want and what is it willing to pay for. There are some very nice high tech lubricants out there but they are drastically more expensive and you, the modeler, are not willing to pay for them and neither are Great Planes or Horizon.
Engine manufacturers suggest using 18% oil (plus or minus) in most engines because they can not control what we as the fuel manufacturers put in the fuel, or you as the consumer will put in the engine. Will the engine survive on the absolute worst oil on the market at the sugested 18%? Probably.
So, where is the bottom limit? Well it is'nt zero! So it has to be somewhere between zero percent and whatever the engine manufacturer suggests. Only one way to find out and that is to sacrifice engines under worst case operating conditions. But, this only applies to the particular oil you are testing, and not all model oils are equal. Take for example automobile engine motor oils, in the 1950's it was pretty much the standard to have 1000 mile oil changes, in the '70's & 80's, 3000 mile oil changes were how far we could safely push a motor oil. Now with modern synthetics and advanced additive packages, 7500 miles on oil is common and some oils can be driven 15000 or more miles easily. Technology is a wonderful thing. Keep in mind that glycol fluid technology has not significantly changed since the 1950's, and thats what many of the common model engine synthetic oils are.
These are the old stand by, they will always work and will always do an adequate job, they are your 1000 mile and 3000 mile oil change oils of the model world. These are the lubes that are comfortable being run at 18% and your engine will be happy. Don't run an engine for extended periods at 10% with these and expect the same longevity as running 18%, it will not happen.
Now introduce the newer age synthetic compounds, they can be used in much lower quantities and you would never know it by examining engine internals. They are the 15000+ mile oil change oils of the model world. These are the lubes that scare people, they can be run in significantly lower quantities than the "old stand-by" and not ruin engines. These are the ones most modelers will debunk as marketing hype and just laugh. They do exist and are in very limited use to those that are willing to pay for them. Very few people are willing to pay an extra $3.00 a gallon at the retail store for high quality stuff, and those that do, see for themselves that it is not hype.
ORIGINAL: skiman762
I never really asked why but
Why does a car engine say an OS30 turning over 25000 rpm only need 8-12% oil in it's fuel of 30% nitro
and an airplane engine say a os32sx running near 18000 rpm on 15% need 17-20% oil
It seems like the airplane engine is better cooled running cooler fuel yet needs so they tell us more oil
I never really asked why but
Why does a car engine say an OS30 turning over 25000 rpm only need 8-12% oil in it's fuel of 30% nitro
and an airplane engine say a os32sx running near 18000 rpm on 15% need 17-20% oil
It seems like the airplane engine is better cooled running cooler fuel yet needs so they tell us more oil
Bax has chimed in with what he see's on his end of the industry and why. I have to agree with him, the rc car crowd has demanded snappier and snappier throttle response. The only real easy way to do that is to lower the oil contents of the fuels. This of course leads to engine life that is drastically shorter (in run time) for most if not all of the engines out there. The best of the rc car engine people out there are only going to have engine life marginaly greater than those of the ham fisted racer.
As for oil content, an rc car engine will run just fine on higher lube fuels, say for instance the assortment of 16-20% oil fuels. They will NOT have as much snap in the throttle as a low oil fuel and they will probably have a slightly lower top end rpm. They will also consume a larger volume of fuel when higher oil fuel is used in rc cars.
Inside the engine, the conecting rod journals are where the lubrication is needed the most. Followed by the piston to sleeve interface, followed by the bearings. It is the rod journals that take the biggest beating and why you need adequate lubrication. The bearings can survive on a lot less oil than any car fuel has. As for the piston and sleeve, yes, adequate oil film is needed there but in the rc car world, lack of oil probably kills fewer pistons/sleeves than does over-cooling and poor break-in.
A car needs less lube because it only does those rpm figures in short bursts. They don't run in a constantly loaded state like our planes do.
So that only leaves heat since Gas engines run on 2-3 percent oil and glow engines run on 17-20 percent oil can we assume gas burns much cooler then Methanol and nitro and as a side affect makes less power per engine volume then Methanol and nitro?
So I will conclude and predict at this time that the next big break though in airplane and maybe car glow engines will be found in the cooling system maybe liquid cooling, seems if we could get rid of the heat we could run much less oil and fill the cylinder with the good stuff like more fuel and nitro have better power to weight ratios, way better throttle response and lower idles.
I don't know many "car guys", but they all seem to EXPECT short engine life.
As far as lubrication goes, there are several philosophies and unfortunatly the driving force is what will the market want and what is it willing to pay for. There are some very nice high tech lubricants out there but they are drastically more expensive and you, the modeler, are not willing to pay for them and neither are Great Planes or Horizon.
Engine manufacturers suggest using 18% oil (plus or minus) in most engines because they can not control what we as the fuel manufacturers put in the fuel, or you as the consumer will put in the engine. Will the engine survive on the absolute worst oil on the market at the sugested 18%? Probably.
So, where is the bottom limit? Well it is'nt zero! So it has to be somewhere between zero percent and whatever the engine manufacturer suggests. Only one way to find out and that is to sacrifice engines under worst case operating conditions. But, this only applies to the particular oil you are testing, and not all model oils are equal. Take for example automobile engine motor oils, in the 1950's it was pretty much the standard to have 1000 mile oil changes, in the '70's & 80's, 3000 mile oil changes were how far we could safely push a motor oil. Now with modern synthetics and advanced additive packages, 7500 miles on oil is common and some oils can be driven 15000 or more miles easily. Technology is a wonderful thing. Keep in mind that glycol fluid technology has not significantly changed since the 1950's, and thats what many of the common model engine synthetic oils are.
These are the old stand by, they will always work and will always do an adequate job, they are your 1000 mile and 3000 mile oil change oils of the model world. These are the lubes that are comfortable being run at 18% and your engine will be happy. Don't run an engine for extended periods at 10% with these and expect the same longevity as running 18%, it will not happen.
Now introduce the newer age synthetic compounds, they can be used in much lower quantities and you would never know it by examining engine internals. They are the 15000+ mile oil change oils of the model world. These are the lubes that scare people, they can be run in significantly lower quantities than the "old stand-by" and not ruin engines. These are the ones most modelers will debunk as marketing hype and just laugh. They do exist and are in very limited use to those that are willing to pay for them. Very few people are willing to pay an extra $3.00 a gallon at the retail store for high quality stuff, and those that do, see for themselves that it is not hype.
12-16-2007, 04:58 PM
#520
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: fiery
I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shop (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shop (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
12-16-2007, 05:07 PM
#521
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: Harry Lagman
Fiery, what do they sting you per litre for that? I have never seen Motul Micro here. I use a lot of Motul 4T and 2T for the bikes though - I'm pretty loyal to the brand. I might ask my local shop about it next time.
ORIGINAL: fiery
I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shop (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
I would use it but I am using Motul Micro I bought from my friendly Motor Cycle shop (Honda and Kawasaki dealer). It's good stuff ... no doubt in my mind better than CP ...
12-16-2007, 05:54 PM
#522
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
Nobody is mentioning the type of synthetic that is being used. The usual type used with glow fuel is PAG. Almost all of the modern multi fuel racing oil is ester based. Ester (in the form of turbine oil) has been used in glow fuel for special applications with success. I plan on mixing several gallons of methanol and common bp2380 for long term testing.
12-16-2007, 07:40 PM
#524
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RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: Kweasel
Nobody is mentioning the type of synthetic that is being used. The usual type used with glow fuel is PAG. Almost all of the modern multi fuel racing oil is ester based. Ester (in the form of turbine oil) has been used in glow fuel for special applications with success. I plan on mixing several gallons of methanol and common bp2380 for long term testing.
Nobody is mentioning the type of synthetic that is being used. The usual type used with glow fuel is PAG. Almost all of the modern multi fuel racing oil is ester based. Ester (in the form of turbine oil) has been used in glow fuel for special applications with success. I plan on mixing several gallons of methanol and common bp2380 for long term testing.
ORIGNAL: gkamysz
Turbine oil is a very low viscosity product. It has a great temperature range though.
I can't find the Motul Micro in the US, without buying 500USD worth. I might try the Kart oil or 800 2T.
Turbine oil is a very low viscosity product. It has a great temperature range though.
I can't find the Motul Micro in the US, without buying 500USD worth. I might try the Kart oil or 800 2T.
12-16-2007, 08:28 PM
#525
RE: Castor oil - A final word?
ORIGINAL: Kweasel
I plan on mixing several gallons of methanol and common bp2380 for long term testing.
I plan on mixing several gallons of methanol and common bp2380 for long term testing.
Another great use for turbine oil is in the drip feed for a Myford ML7 lathe...ask me how I know
.
