0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
05-10-2006, 10:14 PM
#1
0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
I thought the Irvine 53 would be a dog on 0% nitro but I was wrong. I have been using Morgan 15% nitro in this engine but since I have two Moki engines I have the Morgan FAI (0% nitro) laying around. I tried some on the Irvine and guess what? It loves it. I could not tell the difference in power at all, it's on a 4 1/2 pound profile plane. After 11 minutes flying I still have half of an 8 oz tank left. Engine sounds great on it. I'm using an OS #8 plug.
This should be no surprise since this engine was really designed for no/low nitro.
This should be no surprise since this engine was really designed for no/low nitro.
05-10-2006, 10:37 PM
#2
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
I thought the Irvine 53 would be a dog on 0% nitro but I was wrong. I have been using Morgan 15% nitro in this engine but since I have two Moki engines I have the Morgan FAI (0% nitro) laying around. I tried some on the Irvine and guess what? It loves it. I could not tell the difference in power at all, it's on a 4 1/2 pound profile plane. After 11 minutes flying I still have half of an 8 oz tank left. Engine sounds great on it. I'm using an OS #8 plug.
This should be no surprise since this engine was really designed for no/low nitro.
I thought the Irvine 53 would be a dog on 0% nitro but I was wrong. I have been using Morgan 15% nitro in this engine but since I have two Moki engines I have the Morgan FAI (0% nitro) laying around. I tried some on the Irvine and guess what? It loves it. I could not tell the difference in power at all, it's on a 4 1/2 pound profile plane. After 11 minutes flying I still have half of an 8 oz tank left. Engine sounds great on it. I'm using an OS #8 plug.
This should be no surprise since this engine was really designed for no/low nitro.
---------------
This is what I have been trying to tell folks about, Joe. A really high quality engine that is designed properly does not need copious amounts, or any amount, of nitro to run properly. I'd rather invest in an expensive engine, which has a higher resale value, than buy a cheap engine and blow the money out of the exhaust port, never to be seen again.
05-10-2006, 10:49 PM
#3
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
Now I can use the same fuel in all three engines. That's very convenient and cheap. I got 4 gallons of this fuel for $9 a gallon at my LHS. He had it since last November and wanted to sell it. What a deal.
Also this thing transitions and idles great, no nitro needed, The engine is not as hot after flying.
Also this thing transitions and idles great, no nitro needed, The engine is not as hot after flying.
ORIGINAL: Artisan
---------------
This is what I have been trying to tell folks about, Joe. A really high quality engine that is designed properly does not need copious amounts, or any amount, of nitro to run properly. I'd rather invest in an expensive engine, which has a higher resale value, than buy a cheap engine and blow the money out of the exhaust port, never to be seen again.
ORIGINAL: JoeAirPort
I thought the Irvine 53 would be a dog on 0% nitro but I was wrong. I have been using Morgan 15% nitro in this engine but since I have two Moki engines I have the Morgan FAI (0% nitro) laying around. I tried some on the Irvine and guess what? It loves it. I could not tell the difference in power at all, it's on a 4 1/2 pound profile plane. After 11 minutes flying I still have half of an 8 oz tank left. Engine sounds great on it. I'm using an OS #8 plug.
This should be no surprise since this engine was really designed for no/low nitro.
I thought the Irvine 53 would be a dog on 0% nitro but I was wrong. I have been using Morgan 15% nitro in this engine but since I have two Moki engines I have the Morgan FAI (0% nitro) laying around. I tried some on the Irvine and guess what? It loves it. I could not tell the difference in power at all, it's on a 4 1/2 pound profile plane. After 11 minutes flying I still have half of an 8 oz tank left. Engine sounds great on it. I'm using an OS #8 plug.
This should be no surprise since this engine was really designed for no/low nitro.
---------------
This is what I have been trying to tell folks about, Joe. A really high quality engine that is designed properly does not need copious amounts, or any amount, of nitro to run properly. I'd rather invest in an expensive engine, which has a higher resale value, than buy a cheap engine and blow the money out of the exhaust port, never to be seen again.
05-11-2006, 12:20 AM
#4
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
Nitro is just an additive to glow fuel and it's not a necessity as you've found out. Personally I've never used it 
But I'd suggest adding some extra castor to your fuel (even if it's the Omega blend that already has some castor in it). It seems you've also found out you can fly much longer but that means the oil flow through the engine is less and that's where the extra oil is needed. Morgan only has 17% oil which is on the low side to start with so combine that with low consumption and it's getting a bit risky. I use 20% all castor (true FAI fuel) in everything but if I had a blend I'd be tempted to go for about 22% total oil. Maybe I'm over cautious but engines aren't cheap.
But I'd suggest adding some extra castor to your fuel (even if it's the Omega blend that already has some castor in it). It seems you've also found out you can fly much longer but that means the oil flow through the engine is less and that's where the extra oil is needed. Morgan only has 17% oil which is on the low side to start with so combine that with low consumption and it's getting a bit risky. I use 20% all castor (true FAI fuel) in everything but if I had a blend I'd be tempted to go for about 22% total oil. Maybe I'm over cautious but engines aren't cheap.
05-11-2006, 12:50 AM
#5
Senior Member
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
Joe, Brian,
Naaah!
It will not work... North Americans need their high nitro more than an opium addict needs his fix...
Only when Class 424, 422, 428, power-boats, pylon and all go to FAI fuel, will NA people start considering it.
From MVVS .49 owners... when shimmed up to allow 15% nitro, this engine gets just 100 (yes, one hundred) RPM more than in its original setup, on 5% nitro...
Paying much more for the fuel and for much more of it is unjustifiable.
Face it! More is actually less...
Now, YS must make all their engines run properly on 0/20 fuel; Jett, on 0% PowerMaster, Etc.
Naaah!
It will not work... North Americans need their high nitro more than an opium addict needs his fix...
Only when Class 424, 422, 428, power-boats, pylon and all go to FAI fuel, will NA people start considering it.
From MVVS .49 owners... when shimmed up to allow 15% nitro, this engine gets just 100 (yes, one hundred) RPM more than in its original setup, on 5% nitro...
Paying much more for the fuel and for much more of it is unjustifiable.
Face it! More is actually less...
Now, YS must make all their engines run properly on 0/20 fuel; Jett, on 0% PowerMaster, Etc.
05-11-2006, 07:47 AM
#7
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Joe, Brian,
Naaah!
It will not work... North Americans need their high nitro more than an opium addict needs his fix...
Only when Class 424, 422, 428, power-boats, pylon and all go to FAI fuel, will NA people start considering it.
From MVVS .49 owners... when shimmed up to allow 15% nitro, this engine gets just 100 (yes, one hundred) RPM more than in its original setup, on 5% nitro...
Paying much more for the fuel and for much more of it is unjustifiable.
Face it! More is actually less...
Now, YS must make all their engines run properly on 0/20 fuel; Jett, on 0% PowerMaster, Etc.
Joe, Brian,
Naaah!
It will not work... North Americans need their high nitro more than an opium addict needs his fix...
Only when Class 424, 422, 428, power-boats, pylon and all go to FAI fuel, will NA people start considering it.
From MVVS .49 owners... when shimmed up to allow 15% nitro, this engine gets just 100 (yes, one hundred) RPM more than in its original setup, on 5% nitro...
Paying much more for the fuel and for much more of it is unjustifiable.
Face it! More is actually less...
Now, YS must make all their engines run properly on 0/20 fuel; Jett, on 0% PowerMaster, Etc.
-----------------
That is exactly how YS engines used to be before the introduction of the YS.91AC. Ditto Saito engines before the first or second revision of the 1.50. Enya engines are still set up this way, as are many of the Super Tigre and Chinese engines that everyone calls junk. Why are they calling them junk? Because they are running too much nitro and the engine's ignition timing is way too far advanced, causing them to sag out and then quit.
I'd like to give the person at Horizon Hobby Distributors that started this high nitro crap a swift kick in the pants. <G>
05-11-2006, 08:42 AM
#8
Senior Member
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: Artisan
That is exactly how YS engines used to be before the introduction of the YS.91AC. Ditto Saito engines before the first or second revision of the 1.50. Enya engines are still set up this way, as are many of the Super Tigre and Chinese engines that everyone calls junk. Why are they calling them junk? Because they are running too much nitro and the engine's ignition timing is way too far advanced, causing them to sag out and then quit.
I'd like to give the person at Horizon Hobby Distributors that started this high nitro crap a swift kick in the pants. <G>
That is exactly how YS engines used to be before the introduction of the YS.91AC. Ditto Saito engines before the first or second revision of the 1.50. Enya engines are still set up this way, as are many of the Super Tigre and Chinese engines that everyone calls junk. Why are they calling them junk? Because they are running too much nitro and the engine's ignition timing is way too far advanced, causing them to sag out and then quit.
I'd like to give the person at Horizon Hobby Distributors that started this high nitro crap a swift kick in the pants. <G>
I believe you are only correct in part...
The YS.53FZ used to run like crap, even on 15% nitro... It thrived on 20%+ and really 'partied' on 30% heli fuel.
It was true of any and all YS engines, up to the 1.40...
The 1.40FZ and larger YS four-stroke engines can run reliably on 15%, but even they would not run worth a dime on 10%, or less.
Enya engines, including all four-strokes, will run all day long on 5% nitro.
OS engines are not critical, but Saitos are almost as far into the nitro hype as YS...
If anyone is offended by the fact that an engine manufacturer is dictating to him what fuel he must use (which doesn't happen to be the fuel he has at home, or his LHS/club has...), I recommend this person see the nearest shrink...
If anyone is offended by me saying this... Well, I am just holding up a mirror.
The person he should have any complaint against, is the one seen in that mirror...
Face it, everyone! Nitro is garbage! Very expensive garbage.
It is the source of most problems; not the solution to them...
05-11-2006, 09:45 AM
#9
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
It's the real one with the Jet Stream carb on it. I bought it about 3 years ago for $130 US shipped. I love the engine. It's actually very quiet with the stock muffler. Even though the muffler is a little heavy, it seems like it's tuned for the engine because it runs great with that muffler. I tried a Slimline pitts on the same engine and it ran like crap, way too loud also.
If I get rid of my YS 63 I will only be using 0% nitro in my three glow planes. The 4th one is gasoline (DA 50). I'm flying pretty cheap these days.
PS: Cold/cool weather starting is a little tough with 0% nitro but I have figured a way around that. Just use a glow driver with adjustable current and use a little higher current (and no I don't burn the glow plugs out). It starts every time. Actually a friend at the field taught me this.
If I get rid of my YS 63 I will only be using 0% nitro in my three glow planes. The 4th one is gasoline (DA 50). I'm flying pretty cheap these days.
PS: Cold/cool weather starting is a little tough with 0% nitro but I have figured a way around that. Just use a glow driver with adjustable current and use a little higher current (and no I don't burn the glow plugs out). It starts every time. Actually a friend at the field taught me this.
ORIGINAL: torque wrench
Joe, is your .53 a real one with the JetStream carb and Irvine two chamber muffler or the compromised OS version.
Joe, is your .53 a real one with the JetStream carb and Irvine two chamber muffler or the compromised OS version.
05-11-2006, 09:56 AM
#10
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RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: Artisan
-----------------
That is exactly how YS engines used to be before the introduction of the YS.91AC. Ditto Saito engines before the first or second revision of the 1.50. Enya engines are still set up this way, as are many of the Super Tigre and Chinese engines that everyone calls junk. Why are they calling them junk? Because they are running too much nitro and the engine's ignition timing is way too far advanced, causing them to sag out and then quit.
I'd like to give the person at Horizon Hobby Distributors that started this high nitro crap a swift kick in the pants. <G>
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Joe, Brian,
Naaah!
It will not work... North Americans need their high nitro more than an opium addict needs his fix...
Only when Class 424, 422, 428, power-boats, pylon and all go to FAI fuel, will NA people start considering it.
From MVVS .49 owners... when shimmed up to allow 15% nitro, this engine gets just 100 (yes, one hundred) RPM more than in its original setup, on 5% nitro...
Paying much more for the fuel and for much more of it is unjustifiable.
Face it! More is actually less...
Now, YS must make all their engines run properly on 0/20 fuel; Jett, on 0% PowerMaster, Etc.
Joe, Brian,
Naaah!
It will not work... North Americans need their high nitro more than an opium addict needs his fix...
Only when Class 424, 422, 428, power-boats, pylon and all go to FAI fuel, will NA people start considering it.
From MVVS .49 owners... when shimmed up to allow 15% nitro, this engine gets just 100 (yes, one hundred) RPM more than in its original setup, on 5% nitro...
Paying much more for the fuel and for much more of it is unjustifiable.
Face it! More is actually less...
Now, YS must make all their engines run properly on 0/20 fuel; Jett, on 0% PowerMaster, Etc.
-----------------
That is exactly how YS engines used to be before the introduction of the YS.91AC. Ditto Saito engines before the first or second revision of the 1.50. Enya engines are still set up this way, as are many of the Super Tigre and Chinese engines that everyone calls junk. Why are they calling them junk? Because they are running too much nitro and the engine's ignition timing is way too far advanced, causing them to sag out and then quit.
I'd like to give the person at Horizon Hobby Distributors that started this high nitro crap a swift kick in the pants. <G>
The nitro kick was mainly started by the heli guys - since the tuned muffler/pipes are a pain in the butt.... you could run a regular, quite, no-peaky muffler, kick the nitro up, and get the same power (i was one of those heli guys
)And of note, the jett engines run just fine on FAI fuel as delivered. You just lose rpm, as you might expect - so its best to drop a prop size and get that top end rpm back so in most applications. In fact, the BSE-120 runs great on 0-5% nitro - very little rpm gain from more - just a little lower idle speed.
05-11-2006, 09:57 AM
#11
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: DarZeelon
Ed,
I believe you are only correct in part...
The YS.53FZ used to run like crap, even on 15% nitro... It thrived on 20%+ and really 'partied' on 30% heli fuel.
It was true of any and all YS engines, up to the 1.40...
The 1.40FZ and larger YS four-stroke engines can run reliably on 15%, but even they would not run worth a dime on 10%, or less.
Enya engines, including all four-strokes, will run all day long on 5% nitro.
OS engines are not critical, but Saitos are almost as far into the nitro hype as YS...
If anyone is offended by the fact that an engine manufacturer is dictating to him what fuel he must use (which doesn't happen to be the fuel he has at home, or his LHS/club has...), I recommend this person see the nearest shrink...
If anyone is offended by me saying this... Well, I am just holding up a mirror.
The person he should have any complaint against, is the one seen in that mirror...
Face it, everyone! Nitro is garbage! Very expensive garbage.
It is the source of most problems; not the solution to them...
ORIGINAL: Artisan
That is exactly how YS engines used to be before the introduction of the YS.91AC. Ditto Saito engines before the first or second revision of the 1.50. Enya engines are still set up this way, as are many of the Super Tigre and Chinese engines that everyone calls junk. Why are they calling them junk? Because they are running too much nitro and the engine's ignition timing is way too far advanced, causing them to sag out and then quit.
I'd like to give the person at Horizon Hobby Distributors that started this high nitro crap a swift kick in the pants. <G>
That is exactly how YS engines used to be before the introduction of the YS.91AC. Ditto Saito engines before the first or second revision of the 1.50. Enya engines are still set up this way, as are many of the Super Tigre and Chinese engines that everyone calls junk. Why are they calling them junk? Because they are running too much nitro and the engine's ignition timing is way too far advanced, causing them to sag out and then quit.
I'd like to give the person at Horizon Hobby Distributors that started this high nitro crap a swift kick in the pants. <G>
I believe you are only correct in part...
The YS.53FZ used to run like crap, even on 15% nitro... It thrived on 20%+ and really 'partied' on 30% heli fuel.
It was true of any and all YS engines, up to the 1.40...
The 1.40FZ and larger YS four-stroke engines can run reliably on 15%, but even they would not run worth a dime on 10%, or less.
Enya engines, including all four-strokes, will run all day long on 5% nitro.
OS engines are not critical, but Saitos are almost as far into the nitro hype as YS...
If anyone is offended by the fact that an engine manufacturer is dictating to him what fuel he must use (which doesn't happen to be the fuel he has at home, or his LHS/club has...), I recommend this person see the nearest shrink...
If anyone is offended by me saying this... Well, I am just holding up a mirror.
The person he should have any complaint against, is the one seen in that mirror...
Face it, everyone! Nitro is garbage! Very expensive garbage.
It is the source of most problems; not the solution to them...
-------------
You misunderstood what I was saying.
The YS91AC originally came with a titanium piston and was set up to run on 0 - 5% nitro. Americans discovered that it would produce fantastic power on higher nitro levels. Unfortunately, after only a short while of doing so, the piston would fail, leading to catastrophic failures of many other parts in the engine. Yes, it made great power, but only for a short while, after which, it did its best impersonation of a hand grenade. The response was to modify the piston, and while doing so, to lower the compression ratio. Now, to get good power you HAD to use high nitro fuel.
Most four-strokes will produce considerably more power when using high nitro fuel (20% and upwards). The problem is in finding one that will remain in one piece while still running a compression ratio optimized for 0-5% nitro fuel. In short, you will not.
05-11-2006, 12:17 PM
#12
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
Another reason why I am not so crazy about 4-strokes anymore.
ORIGINAL: Artisan
The YS91AC originally came with a titanium piston and was set up to run on 0 - 5% nitro. Americans discovered that it would produce fantastic power on higher nitro levels. Unfortunately, after only a short while of doing so, the piston would fail, leading to catastrophic failures of many other parts in the engine. Yes, it made great power, but only for a short while, after which, it did its best impersonation of a hand grenade. The response was to modify the piston, and while doing so, to lower the compression ratio. Now, to get good power you HAD to use high nitro fuel.
Most four-strokes will produce considerably more power when using high nitro fuel (20% and upwards). The problem is in finding one that will remain in one piece while still running a compression ratio optimized for 0-5% nitro fuel. In short, you will not.
The YS91AC originally came with a titanium piston and was set up to run on 0 - 5% nitro. Americans discovered that it would produce fantastic power on higher nitro levels. Unfortunately, after only a short while of doing so, the piston would fail, leading to catastrophic failures of many other parts in the engine. Yes, it made great power, but only for a short while, after which, it did its best impersonation of a hand grenade. The response was to modify the piston, and while doing so, to lower the compression ratio. Now, to get good power you HAD to use high nitro fuel.
Most four-strokes will produce considerably more power when using high nitro fuel (20% and upwards). The problem is in finding one that will remain in one piece while still running a compression ratio optimized for 0-5% nitro fuel. In short, you will not.
05-11-2006, 03:05 PM
#13
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RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
My Saitos do very well on 10% fuel -- plenty of power, great transition, nice idle.
Maybe I would get more power using 20% but to say that these engines demand hi nitro is not true.
If I could afford to risk stuffing it up, I'd skim the bottom of the cylinder or top of the crankcase on one of my Saitos to see if I could get it tuned to running on 0%-5% nitro. *that* would be very nice.
Maybe I would get more power using 20% but to say that these engines demand hi nitro is not true.
If I could afford to risk stuffing it up, I'd skim the bottom of the cylinder or top of the crankcase on one of my Saitos to see if I could get it tuned to running on 0%-5% nitro. *that* would be very nice.
05-11-2006, 05:03 PM
#14
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RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
It's surprising what can run well on little or no nitro.
I have an OS .61 VF with a Macs .60 pipe that I have been using lately. I retired the airframe it was in so I decided to winterize the engine by mixing up a brew of 30% Omega pink oil and 70 % Methanol. I thought it would only run with the glow driver on due to the high oil content but to my amazement, it ran perfectly, at a peak about 600 rpm lower than it does on 15/18 mix. Boy did it smoke though!
A guy at the field runs his Saito FA .91 sometimes on as little as 7% nitro and it is one of the sweetest running four-strokes I've seen.
Another guy runs an inverted OS .91 Surpass 2 in a vintage slow flyer with a 16x6 prop on 5% nitro. It runs perfectly - a reliable 1200rpm idle every time. For this model, refueling between flights is an option, not a necessity.
I must try weaning my YSs off nitro one day as an experiement.
I have an OS .61 VF with a Macs .60 pipe that I have been using lately. I retired the airframe it was in so I decided to winterize the engine by mixing up a brew of 30% Omega pink oil and 70 % Methanol. I thought it would only run with the glow driver on due to the high oil content but to my amazement, it ran perfectly, at a peak about 600 rpm lower than it does on 15/18 mix. Boy did it smoke though!
A guy at the field runs his Saito FA .91 sometimes on as little as 7% nitro and it is one of the sweetest running four-strokes I've seen.
Another guy runs an inverted OS .91 Surpass 2 in a vintage slow flyer with a 16x6 prop on 5% nitro. It runs perfectly - a reliable 1200rpm idle every time. For this model, refueling between flights is an option, not a necessity.
I must try weaning my YSs off nitro one day as an experiement.
05-11-2006, 07:14 PM
#15
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: XJet
If I could afford to risk stuffing it up, I'd skim the bottom of the cylinder or top of the crankcase on one of my Saitos to see if I could get it tuned to running on 0%-5% nitro.
If I could afford to risk stuffing it up, I'd skim the bottom of the cylinder or top of the crankcase on one of my Saitos to see if I could get it tuned to running on 0%-5% nitro.
Is it my imagination or are more Americans starting to find that high nitro isn't necessary?
Edit to add...instead of skimming the crankcase you could use a longer conrod. Either way though it'd be very wise to check the minimum valve clearance
05-11-2006, 07:21 PM
#16
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RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
I read once where the compression ratio on my Saito .80 is 15.6 to 1, I know that it is too high to run Davis Diesel fuel. I tried it and and could only open the throttle about 1/3 where it ran 5,500 rpm and made scary sounds.
05-11-2006, 08:31 PM
#17
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: XJet
My Saitos do very well on 10% fuel -- plenty of power, great transition, nice idle.
Maybe I would get more power using 20% but to say that these engines demand hi nitro is not true.
If I could afford to risk stuffing it up, I'd skim the bottom of the cylinder or top of the crankcase on one of my Saitos to see if I could get it tuned to running on 0%-5% nitro. *that* would be very nice.
My Saitos do very well on 10% fuel -- plenty of power, great transition, nice idle.
Maybe I would get more power using 20% but to say that these engines demand hi nitro is not true.
If I could afford to risk stuffing it up, I'd skim the bottom of the cylinder or top of the crankcase on one of my Saitos to see if I could get it tuned to running on 0%-5% nitro. *that* would be very nice.
-----------------
If you want to get the power back that you had on higher compressed earlier versions burning 0-5% nitro, you have to run more nitro. No, you don't have to run 30% nitro, but you do have to run 15% nitro. In some places, that difference in nitro costs a buck or two a gallon. And for what? What you had before they lowered the compression ratio? Yep.
It would be nice if they offered both versions of these engines. That way the nitro guys get what they want and the rest of us get what we want.
05-11-2006, 09:28 PM
#18
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
ORIGINAL: downunder
Is it my imagination or are more Americans starting to find that high nitro isn't necessary?
Is it my imagination or are more Americans starting to find that high nitro isn't necessary?
Maybe. In my case I found it through the Moki engines. I was told 0% nitro ran really well so I tried it. And liked it. So I tried it in my Irvine with success. So it was through Moki that I found 0% nitro. Thanks Moki !!!! An awesome engine for sure.
05-12-2006, 09:21 PM
#19
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RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
JoeAirport,
Try mixing your own fuel and then you'll really be screaming (happy). Works out to $4.50-5.00 per gallon. Life is really good then. I fly all my glow 2&4 stroke engines on 0% nitro. (4-stroke needs an on-board glow for good performance).
Try mixing your own fuel and then you'll really be screaming (happy). Works out to $4.50-5.00 per gallon. Life is really good then. I fly all my glow 2&4 stroke engines on 0% nitro. (4-stroke needs an on-board glow for good performance).
05-12-2006, 11:07 PM
#20
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
Can you tell me where you get your oil and methanol? That seems too cheap. Is it really possible?
ORIGINAL: FlyNBHappy
JoeAirport,
Try mixing your own fuel and then you'll really be screaming (happy). Works out to $4.50-5.00 per gallon. Life is really good then. I fly all my glow 2&4 stroke engines on 0% nitro. (4-stroke needs an on-board glow for good performance).
JoeAirport,
Try mixing your own fuel and then you'll really be screaming (happy). Works out to $4.50-5.00 per gallon. Life is really good then. I fly all my glow 2&4 stroke engines on 0% nitro. (4-stroke needs an on-board glow for good performance).
05-13-2006, 05:51 AM
#21
Senior Member
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
Probably not. Unless recycled, industrial grade methanol is being used, most methanol from a race shop costs in the $3.00/gal (+/-) range. The real cost is in the oil. Quality oils are in the $7-10/qt range, and a gallon of 20% oil glow fuel will use the lion's share (26oz) of a quart.
Unless you've used really bottom of the barrel ingredients, homebrew no-nitro fuel will wind up costing you $9-10 gallon when it's all said and done.
This is still a bargain IMO because you know EXACTLY what's in it, and can custom tailor your blends precisely to your needs.
Unless you've used really bottom of the barrel ingredients, homebrew no-nitro fuel will wind up costing you $9-10 gallon when it's all said and done.
This is still a bargain IMO because you know EXACTLY what's in it, and can custom tailor your blends precisely to your needs.
05-13-2006, 07:46 AM
#22
Senior Member
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RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
Nitromethane has about half the energy content per lb as methanol. Its chemical makeup allows a lb of air to burn nearly 4 times as much nitro as methanol. So if it would work otherwise, running on 100% nitro would produce nearly twice the power as straight methane, With 4 times the fuel consumption and more than 10 times the cost. Going from 15 % nitro to 30% will potentially produce about 10% more power.
I like to run as little nitro as my engines like to run well and get a large enough engine for the job in the first place. When I originally got my YS63 I ran it on 15%. It ran ok. The YS tech support guy said that was OK but it would idle and transition better on 20% or more. I am using 20% now.
I like to run as little nitro as my engines like to run well and get a large enough engine for the job in the first place. When I originally got my YS63 I ran it on 15%. It ran ok. The YS tech support guy said that was OK but it would idle and transition better on 20% or more. I am using 20% now.
05-13-2006, 09:00 AM
#23
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Location: Martinsville,
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RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
A gallon of COOL POWER oil was $18 at my kart shop and methonal in 55 gal drum can be bought for about $2 a gallon. I was lucky because a friend would sell me 5 gals for $10 ,but now he got out of drag racing and a 5 costs me $3.30 per gal at a fuel terminal. At those prices glow fuel would cost about $5 -6 range. In a 5 nitro would cost me $30 a gal but my 1 gal cost me $57 and at 5% it will do 20 gal of glow. My brother buys 15% premix and cuts it to make 3 gallons and doesn't have to mess with nitro.
05-13-2006, 10:39 AM
#24
Senior Member
RE: 0% nitro on Irvine 53 rocks
It's not that.
You don't understand, all of you....
It is the model fuel companies that want us all to buy expensive, high nitro fuel, since at a fixed margin percentage, they gain more on more expensive fuel.
And... the higher the nitro, the more fuel is used, since nitro has a much higher stoichiometric ratio range than methanol.
Methanol is about 6.5 and nitro is 0.5-2.5, or about two-and-a-half more fuel at the lowest ratio and 13 times more at the highest (did you ever wonder why more nitro gives you a wider acceptable needle?), for a given amount of air.
You could get about twice the fuel consumption on 15% nitro, than on 0%...
So, the fuel companies sell more fuel. Much more.
Do we want to make this hobby more affordable, or what?
You don't understand, all of you....
It is the model fuel companies that want us all to buy expensive, high nitro fuel, since at a fixed margin percentage, they gain more on more expensive fuel.
And... the higher the nitro, the more fuel is used, since nitro has a much higher stoichiometric ratio range than methanol.
Methanol is about 6.5 and nitro is 0.5-2.5, or about two-and-a-half more fuel at the lowest ratio and 13 times more at the highest (did you ever wonder why more nitro gives you a wider acceptable needle?), for a given amount of air.
You could get about twice the fuel consumption on 15% nitro, than on 0%...
So, the fuel companies sell more fuel. Much more.
Do we want to make this hobby more affordable, or what?
