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My Feedback: (3)

I have recently bought 3 new Jetcat Turbines, P-70, P-120 SE and Titan SE all kerostart. The 70 and 120 SE were received without kero plug installed while Titan had the plug installed and brass rod blocking propane 3mm Festo fitting.

1) Does this mean that the 70 and 120 SE were not tested/set for kerostart use?
2) Do i need to do any special setting before running the P-70 with kerostart?
3) I have a P-60 installed in my Boomerang Intro which i want to upgrade to The P-70 kerostart:
a. Can i keep the old style valvesand use them on new set up
b. Can i also keep the P-60 fuel pump (about 40 runs) or is it better to install the new pump?
c. New ECU V.6.0 will replace the existing V.5.0

Any advice/precaution to look for will be highly appreciated.

Best regards.
Dany

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My Feedback: (3)

Forgot one point... this is my first kerostart and i need to know how to install the plug as understood that plugs are delicate and could easily get defectuous.

Thanks
Dany

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hello Dany,

Typically a motor is test run on propane, not kerosene unless the turbine was bought with the kerosene start option. The little plug, I am not sure why some have it and some don't I will check. I work mainly with JetCat USA not JetCat in Germany so I am not as familiar with their processes (of course that assumes you got the turbines from someone other than JetCat USA)

In order to set the P-70 to kero start, perform the following steps (from the kero start manual at http://www.jetcatusa.com/PDFFiles/Ke...anual%20V2.pdf )

• Switch off RC-receiver
• Connect the GSU to ECU
• Simultaneously press and hold the buttons “Ignition� and “Min/Max�
• Switch on the RC receiver (keep the buttons pressed)
• After a few seconds the display of the GSU shows: KEROSENE (6V N) Start activated!
• Release all buttons, the ECU is now configured for Kerosene start-up

The old style valves are fine, they just need to be hooked up per the manual diagram.

I would use the new pump to be safe, although it is likely the P-60 pump will work fine.

Regards,

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My Feedback: (3)

Matt,

Thanks for the reply. Turbines were ordered/bought new with kerostart option through Jetpower USA. I presume i have received the latest kero plugs as i have been told.
Does this change anything?

Thanks.
Dany

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Nope you are fine, just follow those instructions. If you need any help call the shop or myself at (805) 907 4462, PST

Regards,

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My Feedback: (3)

Matt,

Thanks again. One more question. Can i close the propane supply with 3mm festo plastic plug or should it be a brass rod?

Best regards.
Dany

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My Feedback: (3)

Matt,

Thanks again. One more question. Can i close the propane supply with 3mm festo plastic plug or should it be a brass rod?

Best regards.
Dany

causeitflies

Mine came with a plastic plug.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Dany,

The plastic rod is fine.

Regards,

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

i was planning on plumbing my gas line a a heat vent to the 6014 rx, gotta keep them sukkas hot to work best, ya know<G>

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

LOL I hear you!

I found a little Sunon fan at work, 5 volt brushless, I am wiring that into my powerbox and cutting some slots in the case. Hope that does the trick!

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My Feedback: (3)

Matt,

Can the teflon tube supplied with Kero plug be shortened or same should remain as is? Ultimatly what should be minimum safe length before fitting 4mm Festo connector?

Is there a way to prime Kero plug line without pulling out fuel line from turbine (i.e. a test menu which will only actvate the kero plug valve line) ?

Best regards.
Dany

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My Feedback: (3)

Matt, thanks for your assistance when you are free...

Regards.
Dany

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Dany,

Honestly, I don't know what a minium safe length would be. The teflon is used as it is more heat resistant. I would think you could shorten it by maybe 50% but I would not go shorter than that.

I would not prime the kero line without removing it, but if you do, keep a very close eye on the fuel going up to the ignitor. If too much gets past the ignitor, you will have a hot start the next time you light it off.

Hope that helps,

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My Feedback: (3)

Thanks Matt,

One last question, where do you install the manual shut off valve in kero start set up. As i changed my set up from propane to
Kero i kept manual shut off valve on the fuel line, but feel this is not how it should be as fuel can still come through ignitor valve case it is leaking and fuel will go in the burner.

Thanks for your help.
Best regards.
Dany

causeitflies

Install the shutoff before the "T".

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My Feedback: (3)

Here's the story of my first Kerostart experience:
The brand new P-70 kerostart was installed on the Baby boomerang in replacement of the P-60 to achieve better vertical performance.
From the old installation i kept the valves and the 1250ma orginal ECU Battery.

On the first attempt, after purging fuel and kero lines, kero plug did not even warm up, and turbine was flooded as starting sequence did not occur. Battery was suspected to be weak. same was recharged and another 7.2 V. battery was hooked in parallel for boosting kero plug.
Before second attempt plane was tilted forward backward several times and a flow of fuel dripped from intake and tail cone.

Second attempt, sequence was started and turbine sounded normal until fuel ramp started when flames whent out of tail cone, fearing that stab would burn fire extinguisher was hit (near intake) and turbine shut down instantly....

Third attempt after tilting the plane once again to release the fuel caught in the chamber. Start up occurred, but turbine was popping a lot, and again a huge flame came out of the cone, fire extinguisher was pointed to the flame and extinguished, turbine kept running, but then tail cone started glowing orange and suddenly turbine stopped and entered cool down mode. message on GSU showld: OC: Hi temp.

The mistake i did, was that i did not review the data of this last run and note different values, which would have been a good indication as to what the problem was.
Instead i tried to restart turbine, but battery (with the parallel one) where giving low current as soon as kero plug was supposed to light the kero plug, obviously turbine did not start.

The data of this last was insignificant, RPM 3000, max temp 64 etc...

Any suggestions how to proceed. Understood that the 1250ma batt. should be enough to perform 2 or 3 starts, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

What intensity does the keroplug withdraw? What settings should i check to acheive a smooth start?

Thanks. Regards.
Dany

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hello Dany,

Tilt the model nose DOWN to get raw fuel out of it (and of course put a rag or something in front of the compressor to catch the fuel). If you tilt it backwards, the liquid fuel is trapped in the rear of the turbine. All of your symptoms are consistent with raw fuel in the turbine.

Just make sure you have removed all of the raw fuel and charge the battery and start it again.

Good luck,

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My Feedback: (3)

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the reply.
I will try again and run the P-70 in a couple of days but i am worried about 2 things, the hi temp cut off after tail cone glowed orange red (is this normal)?
and the fact that the original battery is notheating the kero plug.
can i plug in parallel a 6 cell batt with higher intensity then the 1250ma ?

Thanks. Regards.
Dany

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My Feedback: (3)

Matt,

I am still worried about the unknown reason of shutdown, after flames were extinguished, but tail cone became orange and then turbine stopped showing Hi temp.

Sorry to bring this back but i don't want to make a wrong move and damage turbine, as i don't have the luxoury/facility to ship turbine back and forth from where i live.

Thanks. Regards.
Dany

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Dany,

This is hard to answer as the liquid fuel in the turbine will cause exactly what you have described. I would try to start it again with the extinguisher ready. Make absolutely sure the turbine has no fuel in it and that the battery is charged and let me know what you find.

Hope this helps.

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My Feedback: (3)

Dear Matt,

Since a month and a half, i haven't got te chance to test run the New P-70 kerostart. I did today and got exactly the same experience as the first run. Tail cone glowed red with short flames and temperature went above 1000 deg. and turbine shut down. experience was repeated twice with same result.
Before starting up i reduced the uaccel 1 to 0.175 (initial value was set to 0.200). While i have noticed that uaccel 2 is set to 0.45.
On the other hand here are the readings after the runs which gave an OC: Hi temp off (both readings are similar, so here is one of the 2 readings):

- Last run time: 0.44"
- Last off pump voltage: 0.90
- Last off RPM: 39900
- Last of temp: 1019 (1046 for the second run)
- Last off cond: Hi temp.
- Last max temp 1022 (1048 for the second run)
- last min temp: 32
- Last Avg. Tem: 365
- Last Max avg.Temp: 0
- Last start Temp: 561
- Last max RPM: 39900
- Last Min RPM: 3000
- Last Avg. RPM: 12100
- Last Max pump: 0.90
- Last min. Pump: 0.15
- Last Avg. pump: 0.30

i don't know what to do next, and hope that you are able to help me solve this issue for me, As i do not understand what's happening and i almost damaged my plane due to the flames of the first runs.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Best regards.
Dany

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Dany,

I would crank Uaccel2 way down, maybe to .250 and try it, the worst thing that will happen is the turbine won't start. Of course, the presumes that you are not pumping fuel into the turbine while fueling the plane, you can install a manual shutoff valve in the kerosene line to make sure you are not.

When are these big flames coming? Is it clearly after the initial ramp of the kerosene?

Regards,

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My Feedback: (3)

Hi Matt,

I am really desperate with my turbine. I have a manual shutoff valve installed on the kero line.
Fyg, on the second session, first attempt had some kero dripping from tail cone, i dialed down the Uaccel1 to 0.175 (it was initially 0.200) no more dripping afterwords and there is only a short 10 cm strong blue flame at 2 O'clock looking from the rear.
Watching the GSU, it seems that first ramp during keroplug start, everything looks normal (at least temp wise and reading is consistant showing max 561 deg). when second ramp start, temp goes up very quickly and tail cone turns read. When temp reaches 1000 deg turbine shuts off giving Hi temp off condition.

Do you think that dialing down Uaccel2 to 0.250 would solve the problem? on the other hand will this figure for Uaccel2 (0.45) set for the propane start?

Appreciate your help very much.
Regards.
Dany

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Dany,

I think you are in (email) contact now with Bob Wilcox. I am talking to him now and we agree that he should probably talk you through some set up changes Can you call him at the shop?

Regardsm