rustlerdog

Alright, So my stock motor has had enough (titan 12t). Does not work anymore and I have been itching to go brushless anyway.

So with that said, Here is what I want from it and some background on what I have in the truck already.

Budget: $300 is the most I want to spend to meet the criteria below...

What I *primarily* use the car on: 85% Grass, 5% Pavement, 5% Sand, 5% Wet Grass/Mud.
Seasons: In jersey we get all four season and I have a set of tires for each occasion. I want to run the car year round.. 90+ degrees on hot days in the summer and 30 degrees (sometimes negative with windchill) in the winter.
Top Speed: I probably care the least about top speed
Acceleration: Important
Durability: *Most* Important
Run Time: *Second Most* Important ( I know mah controls this but I also understand brushless can improve this because its more effecient)
Water Resistant/Proof: *Third Most* Important (I dont aim for giant puddles or anything but it is a concern for winter when it snows or when its muddy)
Lifetime of the system: Also very important as my stock titan lasted all of about a month ( a lot of people on here said it wouldnt last long)

Driving Habits: I dont set up ramps to jump, I have no intentions of doing so. I run it with my dog for fun and laughs + exercise, he puts wear on my tires more then anything . It does hit holes and what not in the ground from the dog.

Chassis: Stock XL-5 Plastic
Shocks: Traxxas Big Bore aluminum
Arms/Caster blocks/Carriers/Front & Rear shock towers etc: All RPM
Transmission: Aluminum Idler Gear, Steel Top Gear, Steel ringed differential
Batteries: 4200mah NiMH x 2 (Venom)
Radio/Receiver: Stock (Came with the RTR package)

What do I buy?

fusebmx13

I would say the vxl system but you are asking wayyy to much from it. It could run in the water but at your own risk. Otherwise it will perform well. I use the mamba max esc and vxl motor. It is great because you can tune it with the castle link.

rustlerdog

So you picked up the ESC but didnt go with their motor combo?

Any reason? Or did you already have the vxl motor and just wanted to get a good ESC ?

I mean I guess I could pick up a mamba max and just avoid muddy / rainy / snowy days with it.

Motor/ESC Combo:
[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001702890&I=LXUTA5&P=K]Mamba Max/5700 [/link] (Thinking this is mid road between acceleration/Speed?)
Would it make sense to also upgrade to the Jato Shafts (Still using stock XL-5 Shafts):
[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001702890&I=LXKMG1&P=K]Jato Half Shafts[/link]

happywing

I think you may be on the right track, but I'd go with the Mamba Max 4600 system. For use on grass, the 5700 will run hot. I don't see anything wrong with the VXL system either. The motor is a 3500kv motor which should be perfect. I don't have personal experience with the VXL system, so I can't say for sure....it sounds good. One problem you may run into with any system, is some stuttering (cogging) at start-up because you are using NiMh packs. If they are good packs, you should be OK.

rustlerdog

Lower the KV the better for grass?

I liked the mamba max for their castle link feature but of course the VXL3 is water resistant already which is also good.. but lacks the programming features of the max system.

So Maybe I should give mamba / traxxas a call and see what their take on this is for my running conditions and just how well both systems take general running in grass abuse.

Though I am sure they will be a bit jaded towards their respective products (which is why I asked here first)



Thank you both for the responses so far.. much appreciated =)

rustlerdog

Alright So here is what I ended up doing

Purchased the [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXSDB8&P=ML]VXL Brushless Combo[/link]

Used the 50 I saved from not going with a max to pickup a better [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=001702890&I=LXUZ76&P=K]Steering Servo[/link]

The water tight [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUVY8&P=7]Slash Receiver Box[/link]

Also picked up the [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNMM6&P=ML]Titan 12T[/link]

The VXL3 ESC that velineon combo comes with is pretty water tight, but of course brushless motors arent supposed to get wet. So instead of risking the motor i figure Ill just swap out to a brushed when its not that great out...

Win... Win ?

Redvanmafia

i dont think the vxl esc, can run brushed motors,

rustlerdog

Velineon VXL3s ESC;
Auto-detects and compatible with brushed, brushless and sensored
brushless motors

.. though you did have me worried for a second or two [8D]

Redvanmafia

what turn of brushed motors?

rustlerdog

Here are all of the exact specs... According to them, there is no limit.

SPECS: VXL-3s
Input voltage: 4.8-11.1V (4-9 cells NiMH or 2S-3S LiPo)
Supported motors: Brushed/Brushless/Sensorless brushless
Motor Limit: None
Continuous current: 200A
Peak current: 320A
BEC voltage 6.0V DC
Transistor type: MOSFET
On-resisteance: 0.00075 ohms Max (0.006/8 FETs)
PWM frequency: 12,000Hz
Battery connectors: Traxxas High-Current Connector
Motor connectors: TRX 3.5mm bullet connectors
Motor/battery wiring: 12-gauge Maxx Cable
Thermal protection: 2-ge thermal shutdown
Case size (l/w/h): 2.19" x 1.54" x 1.3" (55 x 39 x 33mm)
Weight: 3.17oz (90g)

Redvanmafia

see thoes arnt real time specs, the VXL doesnt run 200 amps continuous. it says no motor limit that means your good to go, ive herd some bad things about the vxl esc, give it a try tho cant go wrong for the price

rustlerdog

Still lingering over the purchase button because i really wanted to hear from mamba as to whether their ESC can deal with some water/snow.. but no one is picking up their phone at the moment.

Redvanmafia

none of there esc's can handle water or snow, ive had the mamba max and the sidewinder and they dont like water or snow or moisture, ive ran then thru a little bit of snow on the ground, but not enough to hurt the esc, these brushless set-up's never like water, if it was waterproof or resistant they would have advertised it, thats a selling point, i would really consider a mamba max esc there 134.99 i belive and there just powerhouses the castle link is great to, hooking up your rc car to the computer thru USB, how sick is that? lol

rustlerdog

Yea, Its a tough decision... I would love to get a max for the programing ability but having to worry when its damp out is not all that much fun [:@]. But it does seem like the max would be good for the all around wether from hot and muggy (according to beat your truck review).. just as long as its dry.

I have seen someone on here say they basically water proofed their whole set up with some silicone spray but i havent found any really detailed walk through's for it.. let alone someone thats tried it with their mamba max.

Its a pretty major purchase so i'll let this thread play out for the next day or so to make sure I want to go with the water proof (and hopefully less worriesome) VXL3/Velineon combo

what did you hear bad about the vxl3 esc ?

Redvanmafia

Its coggs (Stutters on start-up, & slow driving) no adjustibility, not real world specs, the motor wires on the esc come off, and you cant solder then back on, 3500kv so geared stock say 20/86 its only good for 30mph on 6 or 7 cells, the motor is alright but the esc needs work, alot of people run the mamba max esc with the vxl motor, and thats just wild! to get going really fast you need lipo power and with the mamba max and vxl motor you can run a 4S lipo (14.8 volts), 3500x14.8 51800 rpms, plus you can gear it higher, witch means 70+mph is anything you want to run

rustlerdog

Yea, as i mentioned I am far from a speed junky. power would be great to have to give it some more punch in grass but I really only truely enjoy it when I can play with it and have my dog chase it... at 70mph my pup is quick.. but certainly not 70mph quick lol

Why split up the Mamba Max ESC from its motor combo?... discount is decent (212 for ESC + 4600kv motor).

Is there anything wrong with their 4600 that happy mentioned earlier?

Redvanmafia

Sorry about that, your right it would be cool to see your dog run 70mph but..... yeah lol the mamba max 4600 would be great as well, any of there combo's are wicked fast and will work wonders for 99% of people, i run a sidewinder 4600 in my stampede on a 2s lipo (7.4 volts) geared 25/86 and its really fast with atleast 10-12 minutes of run time its good for 35 mph for 159.99 or whatever the whole combo is, thats a great deal im sure your dog will have a ruff time keeping up

rustlerdog

Thanks for all the info

I will put up some pics with whatever I grab (still gonna let is simmer for one more day).. for now I just picked up the titan again to get it back up and give it some more beatings

Redvanmafia

Haha, sound good!

supercharged347

Here we go again. I've had a couple VXL's....and NEVER had any cogging problems. The earlier VXL did have an issue with the the metal plug that was soldered to the board. The newer ones there is a wire soldered to the board, with the metal plug being attached to that (insted of directly to the board). Eliminating the only problem I ever had with the older one.

I never tested in water to see how well it would be resistent to it. I tend to avoid running in water cause it never seems like a good idea for anything....electronics, bearings...etc etc.

DriftingDragon

mamba max and CC 9000kv

Access

Just what exactly are you try to do on the grass? 25mph? 35mph?
Acceleration is going to be fine with any of the good setups out there, but the thing to watch out for is temperature and gearing on the grass.
My rustler VXL gets ~32mph with 16/83 gearing running off 3s. Another option is the mamba 5700/3s which should be geared 12/86 or 13/86. It will go a little faster, ~35mph, but also run a little hotter.

Runtimes on grass are short, 6-7 minutes tops with a decent sized LiPo and temperatures tend to be high, 150-180F even in well-cut grass.

Waterproofing is going to be a little bit harder.
Keep in mind resistance of the VXL ESC is more than double that of the Mamba Max, so that means twice as hot when run at similar amperage.

VXL cogs terribly at super-low speeds, ie. the kind of speeds you'd use for crawling, 10cm/sec or less. Once you get above ~20-30cm/sec it's fine.

rustlerdog

Nothing super fast... Im happy with 15-20 tops... More then anything I am looking for durability and run time... Right now I get about 15 minutes on the grass that I run on (the 4200mah 6 cell venoms I use) with the titan... I would imagine any brushless setup would be at least similar.. maybe a bit less.

The lower the wear and tear on the engine for doing what i do with it the better... If you think id be better of going with a brushed motor.. id be happy to hear that opinion too.

1maxdude

If you are budgeted around 300 bucks, I'd go with the novak havoc and pick up a lipo or two to go along with it, or, I somewhat hesitate to recommend this, the LRP AI Pro with a 9.5,10.5 or 13.5 You'll have more power than stock, speed will go up a bit, not mega dramatically if you keep it geared to run cool, and the low end torque will greatly increase. Plus they are sensored for ultra smooth operation. The A.I. is "waterproof" as it states. I've had my share of bad luck with setting up the system. It's a no brainer automatic setup, but I had problems with burning up the esc and motor. I got it all fixed and with a vector 9.5, in a stampede, it was really awesome. That is, until I sheared the motor shaft, I think I'd lean twoards the novak for price,tuneability!!!!!!!, option of 3s. For messin around offroad and in grass and stuff, a castle system will probably give you more headache than fun. It will run hot,have some cogging which can be frustrating in itself if you are trying to keep a slow steady speed, and way overpowering, if you use a lipo with their stuff, it'll be nothing but wheelies and flips.

rustlerdog

Lipo is just a can of worms I am not sure i want to open right now. Between the headache of picking up an entirely new charger, balancer, and getting a good brand lipo (That in and of it self is 300 or more), dealing with getting them charged either in a fire proof lipo bag (i watch my nimhs as they charge already.. and even that makes me itch sometimes if i charge them both in succession).

So you recommend the LRP AI pro and the sensored motors huh? I did look at them somewhat and it does sound pretty sweet to have a sensored motor.

You also sound more on track with what I am looking for - little bit more low end torque, little bit more speed.. but also trying to take it easy on the motor and run it on the cool side, plus not deal with the "oh crap its wet out.. no running today" dilemna. Not to mention the overall less maintenance then brushed (and hopefully longer lifetime then the titan 12t lol.. dead after about 15-20 packs).

Thanks for your recommendation... thats also a good point about the mamba being a very powerful setup, I figured with their castle link though i could tune it down for what I want to accomplish and also keep that running cooler too.

I will look more into the LRP combos