David Gladwin

I have recently received a very offensive e-mail from Bob Violett asserting that my contributions to the current copy of RCJI are anti BVM and take cheap shots at him intended to damage his business. It also stated that I deliberately created the situation where non delivery of a new Stab for my F4 eliminated my individual entry to the WJM. Nothing could be further from the truth. and the mistake at the BVM factory wasted a great deal of my time and money , not least a wasted trip from London to Sydney. As the current owner of five BVM models, an F4, two BobCats, an F86 and F16 I cannot understand what possible motive I could have for wanting to see BVM damaged.


None of the people we have consulted in the UK (including several at yesterday's jet meeting at Odiham near London) who have read the magazine can see any basis whatsoever for this comment and a letter to BV contained a reply merely that he was too busy with his Kingcat to engage in banter!

I am a totally independant, freelance writer for RCJI ( I am not an employee or under any fom of contract) and the editorial team is free to accept or reject my copy as they think fit. It has always been my absolute principle that what I write is scrupulously honest, fair and unbiased, except that I am biased towards quality products and the promotion of the hobby which I think is in everyone's interest but it is important to me that no one can possibly find what I write to be in any way objectionable.

However, it may just be possible that US readers can interpret what I wrote in a different way to the way it reads in the UK.

Can anyone who has actually read my contributions to the current magazine, (Gas Flow, WJM report and Vigilante review) or indeed ANY other of my contributions over the last ten years, suggest why I have been accused by BV of taking cheap shots at his comany intended to damage his business or being , in any way, anti BVM ?

Regards,
David Gladwin

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

David,

I haven't read your articles yet but I do have one question. If BVM sent you a letter directly, not published anywhere, why did you feel the need to come here and put this to public scrutiny?

I have the latest RCJI in my car however and will give the articles a good read this morning and let you know my impressions.

Followup:

Having read through Gas Flow, the WJM report, and the Vigilante review I can offer up these impressions..

Gas Flow:
You and I have had conversation before about the Bobcat elevator effectiveness. I disagree with your conclusions about the JR DS3301 not being suitable for the elevators as pure torque ratings are not the entire issue here. The control geometry of the Bobcat's elevator linkage gives more leverage applied to the surface than the simple torque rating for the servo. Your comments about using 6v power is right on the money though. Anytime you deal with long servo leads, especially with multiple connectors involved, going to the higher voltage ensures you get at least sufficient voltage at the servo.

I think the issue here is the possibility that people will take your statements as fact outright, and infer that BVM was negligent in his design work. While there have been some issues with a few people regarding elevator effectiveness, there have been WAY too many people without issue and far too many other variables to lay blame on BVM. Things like quality of building, substandard electronics used, etc. The only person I can be SURE there was none of this was Terry Nitsch, but I believe his crash was a result of high temp, high density altitude, high speed, and simply insufficient altitude to complete the maneuver resulting in CFIT (controlled flight into terrain).

World Jet Masters
While I don't see anything intended to attack BVM here, the way you stated the problems was basically unneccessary in my opinion. You could have simply stated you were delayed in making the repairs to your F-4 and left it at that.

MAS Vigilante Review
Again I see nothing directly attacking BVM per se, but you make several comments about the Vigilante in comparison to the BVM Bandit. To me this seems reasonable as the BVM Bandit is the king of the high performance sport jets, and you DO need a watermark to compare products and give any sort of relevance. It's hard to make a full comparison of the two kits however since one is all composite, and the other has foam flying surfaces. So the cost comparison isn't really relevant to me.

Overall.. I think your writing wasn't INTENTIONALLY attacking BVM, but your choice of words and so forth could have been different. I also haven't seen the email sent to you so I'm sort of replying in the dark a bit.

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

David ,
I as well just read the magazine last night, and I can echo Doug's comments.
I spent last weekend at the Liberty Bell Rally where BV along with Tom Dogen were in attendance. They were most helpful to those who asked for or needed it I saw many planes test flown and lots of customer support there. I needed a set of wire gear for my Bobcat as the solder joint had failed on one side very early Saturday morning. Within just a few moments after them arriving at the field and asking if they had brought any to sell Tommy had a set in my hands so I could keep flying. My experience with BVM is that Bob sometimes answers the phone but if he is to busy to do so they have many qualified people there to solve the problems. All in all BVM is the standard that everyone else is measured up to, but also remember that it is a company and not just a one man show. Bob has every right to defend his business as he has worked long and hard to make it what it is. You as well have your right to your opinions but the choice of words in different counties mean different things sometimes.

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

David,

I agree with Doug about your comments about the Bobcat elevator servos. Being that I have a Bobcat XL with at least 440 flights on it with at first P-120 power and for the last 120 flights P-160 power (speedlimiter installed and functioning in both cases) with the stock JR 3301 servos and properly installed linkages I can assure you that the servos are up to the task. Myself, Tom Dodgen, Larry Kramer and a few others that I am sure anyone who has been to a Jet meet in the US have seen first hand do not baby our airplanes in fact push them to the edge of their envelope with no problems whatsoever. I think a lot of readers take the written word in RCJI as gospel and the general tone that "I" read into the article was that you felt the engineering was less than adequate. But that is just my opinion, I can see why BV would feel that it was an attack on his company as you took it on yourself to point out the "shortcomings" of his design as you saw it. As far as the F-4 stab you plainly stated it was a shipping error at the factory. I know I damaged my F-4 last fall 3 weeks before Superman and got parts immediately but ONLY because parts were available from a kit that was about to go out. Perhaps they had to make the stab, I don't know all the details but can only comment from my perspective as a reader. If it was a shipping errror on their part why thrash them in a public forum (RCJI) for it like you did. I have seen similar comments from you about engines (JetCat P-160) and others. Manufacturers of our hobby parts, and pieces have all missed deadlines, have ALL sent out defective parts, and have all had bad service at one time or another. It would be a very difficult business to be in as most of us demand that for the money we are spending the manufacturers provide us with the perfect service, perfect parts, and fast delivery times.

That's my opinion anyway.....I'm a BVM "groupie" so I am sure there will be a dozen comments about how all of us BVM "groupies" always stick up for BVM.

FWIW if you commented about anything to do with my buisness in a public forum as well you would likely get the same reaction out of me as you did from BV.


David Reid

maverickflyer

My two cents.

Dave, I have read your article and appreciate the intent of your story. I personally did not think it was a shot at BVM however I did think highlighting the problems with the BobCat could have a negative impact with the reputation of BVM. And I guess this is what Bob would take offense with. Sometime the truth can be tough to take when it is publicized.

Bottom line it just shows that any flying is dynamic is can sometimes result in unexpected results. Bob can be a little tough at times (ex fighter jock) but he always is willing to help. I have called BVM many times for just dumb questions and have always been help beyond what I would expect. In fact I just called to see if I could return something purchased at the Liberty rally and guess what - no problem. I also asked a question regarding something I purchased 5 Years ago. They did not have the answer right away but called me back within 30 minutes. IMO they may be a bit high on prices but make it up for with customer service. I fly the original maverick (DF) but am looking to upgrade to turbines. I will probably spend my hard earned dollars on a kit from BVM.

renegade pilot

I was just wondering if we are all reading the same RCJI or if they send a special edition to the US.

Perhaps I am reading the magazine upside down, being downunder, but I fail to see how anything that was written was in any conceivable way derogatory to BVM.

GAS FLOW
In this article David clearly discounts any design fault with the Bobcat, however states that it would be advantageous to round the peaks of the diamond section elevator. He even states that the Bobcat is a cracking ( that means exceptionally good in England) model which has been well thought out by the manufacturer. A compliment I would have thought.

The thrust of this article seems to me to discount any design fault with the Bobcat airframe and point the finger completely at the "nut behind the wheel" , the builder, not adequately ensuring that the setup of battery power, servo cabling and servo used are up to the job in ALL situations.

WJM
David said a "MOST UNCHARACTERISTIC" shipping delay at BVM resulted in the tailplanes non-arrival. Am I wrong or does this infer that BVM is normally efficient in their shipping.
Hardly a "THRASHING IN A PUBLIC FORUM".

VIGILANTE
As David said the Vigilante has a similar appearance to the Bandit
and having personally seen the Vigilante and also some of BVM's kits there is little difference in the quality however a quantum leap in the price. David Cronkite makes the statemant that the cost comparison is not relevant as the Bandit is all composite, however, he is obviously forgetting the Balsa Bandit which, at least in Australia, costs approximately 3 times the Vigilante.
It is extremely hard to see value for money in that!

Anyway just my perspective on the issues.

Russell.

hanna

My Feedback: (3)

The guy is an independant writer for a magazine. I would rather read articles from someone without manufacturers PR dept stamp of approval. I think he has stated in the past that he buys all the products, therefore he is able to write unbiased reviews. Mike Krizan

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Actually Russell I'm not forgetting the balsa Bandit at all.. I did however forget about the huge tariffs you pay to get American products to Australia not to mention the difference in the value of the currency.. so the BVM product being extremely expensive in Australia is not surprising. It would imagine getting a MAS Renegade shipped to the USA wouldn't be cheap either.

Jetman007

My Feedback: (6)

As a small hobby business owner, I can say that any information published, which suggests a departure from the written recommended way of doing things, can cause my company a great deal of unwelcomed extra effort. The extra effort will be in refuting what was published, if indeed it is not accurate, and in convincing prospective customers that the suggested departures in approach/hardware selection, are not necessary. This extra work, coupled with potential lost sales due to perceived negative publicy, is a small business person's nightmare!

It's a tough line to walk and I can see both sides but certainly small business owners do not welcome negative publicity, no matter how slight or well intentioned the author was.

David G: Ever consider reviewing potential controversial topics with the affected manufacturers prior to publishing. Can save face on both sides.

wojtek

My Feedback: (73)

heres my $.02

FTiano

My Feedback: (11)

David,

I know we have not spoken since we came into disagreement last Winter over a turbine related manner, BUT, I just could not,in all good conscience, let this thread go any further without adding a little something to help straighten it out.

Last February, at Florida Jets, Sam Wright, our announcer, must have paged your name, to go to the Bob Violett booth, at least 3 dozen times before I went to him and asked him to stop. Sam told me that Bob Violett himself requested Sam to announce that he needed to meet with David Gladwyn, that it was very important.

As you know, BVM is a sponsor of Florida Jets and I felt terrible telling Bob that we were stopping these announcements because I, personally, had been told that you were not coming to Florida Jets because you were leary of a confrontation with me. Bob said he understood but that he was very disappointed. WHY? Because he had a STAB for an F-4 that YOU were supposed to pick up from him, so that you could take it back on the plane with you, and save shipping and duty costs.

That is the so help me Lord truth and I think it is unfair the way you have cleverly used your literary talent to disguise the truth.

I know that Bob intentionally stays off these sites but if he were to post anything I betcha it would be that he had your product in hand, sought you out to give it to you, but you chose to be a no-show. I can remember when a far classier DG would immediatley set this straight.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

David,

I have not read the articles yet (I have a pile of mags waiting to be read), so can not comment on the content yet.

However, I would have to say that regardless of the actual content - making a public spectacle out of the private disagreement that you seem to be having with BV (instead of resolving it in private and/or asking a select few people for private assesment & feedback on your article) could certainly be read as being an attempt to hurt BV in & of itself

If the email you received truly was offensive, then I can definitely understand the very human desire to lash back (BTDT) - but doing so in a public forum IMO comes across as an "escallation" of of the issue rather than being a good way to understand & resolve it.

Given the strong pro- and anti- BVM emotions that we see so often here on RCU, this thread also seems to me to be kind of like a match being waved around a powder keg.

I seem to recall you disagreed vehemently with Marc (RCAdmin) about him being quick to make his issues with PST public (and FWIW I agree with you on that one), and so I am somewhat surprised at the seemingly contradictory action taken here.

Best regards,
Gordon

diceman

My Feedback: (10)

One thing that I am very curious about is why RCJI would publish this article without some conversation with BV. It seems to be a very alarming position to take in this very small community of R/C Jet pilots. And, by publishing this article it is as if RCJI supports the conclusions?!?!

I wonder if this was simply a blunder on thir part or part or???

JB

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

A few observations while the glue is drying:

1. JWM Article------There is no such thing as unbiased reporting......try as you might, whenever you pen a line, you are influenced by a variety of factors, including your life history and mental state prevalent at the time of writing....if you were still cranked about BVM's apparent neglect in delivering the F-4 component (FT raises at least a question of doubt in regard to BV's guilt in my mind, as I was at FJ 2003 and heard your name called) you might have written your article differently, than if BV had hand-delivered the tail fin to you at Swartkop, painted, at his own expense.

2. Vigilante Article-----probably would have been better to compare the Vig to the Cyclone or Spectre...once again, a subtle bias.....sort of like comparing a BVM Phantom to a Yellow Aircraft Phantom....both nice planes, but apples and oranges, IMHO....

3. Gas Flow----lots of speculation based on minimal evidence except for a few BC XL's re-kitted on the back-side or bottom of a loop....reminds me of an old medical school professor who delighted in watching medical students sweat while making rounds......"So your conclusion, based on insufficient evidence, is that this patient's illness, might be this or might be that, or might be both, but most likely neither?

Your conclusion that the 3301 should be swapped for a 9411 while BVM continues to recommend the 3301 flies in the face of my observations. I have attended 4 Jet Rallies this year, all in HOT weather, also attended by David Reid and Tom Dodgen....In prior years, I have also witnessed innumerable flights by Jason Somes and Torrey Ward on BV's Bobcat....at least with these 4 pilots, your conclusion is dead wrong. No one flies the BC more successfully at max stress than those 4 guys, and in David's and T.D.'s case, for hundreds of flights, all with 3301's.....however that is not to say that one should not use basic construction skills that you clearly outlined like battery size, wire gauge, proper linkage geometry, smoothing the diamond a bit, etc.....even sticking in 9411's, if you must, will not get you excommunicated from the BV brotherhood....just a couple of bumps on the tail....no big deal....don't forget to re-adjust the C.G. after the mods....

Having flown full-scale competition aerobatics in a Pitts S1-T for 6 years and watching three of my fellow competitors as well of one of the TriColore Italian SF-260 show pilots at EAA 1983 die in failed pull-outs, two from a split-S, one from a reverse cuban and the Italian from a pull at the bottom of an Avalanche, all started 10 feet too low given the hot conditions, whenever someone stuffs a plane pulling G's from vertical back to horizontal, the first thing that comes to mind is a high speed/G(accelerated) stall....if there is no yaw at the time of the stall, it will be straight ahead, just like you mention in your description of the BobCat's favorable stall characteristics on page 11....and the elevator gets real mushy, to say the least...in fact, that's a trick I learned for doing a real short field landing in a Citabria, or J-3....once your tailwheel is over the runway, and you are no more than 5 feet off the ground, yank back the stick--->accelerated stall, and it stops flying right now---no ground-effect float...best done on a grass field...but watch out, you can get into fields that you can't get out of with this technique......

And finally, the Brits you consulted at Odiham no doubt included my good friends from the U.K. Mark, Nick, Jonathan and Jo, Geoff, Colin, Jason, and Laura and the rest of that Motley Crew that invades Florida each March and November. All they do is drink our beer, chase our women (and men--only Laura, I hope----Jonathan and Jo just chase each other).....stay out late, and sleep late....and put ketchup on their French Toast???... and these are your literary critics??



Tom----

Laura H

Hey Tom,
The crew weren't inforce at Odiham yesterday, Colin, my dad and I were there.....The rest were having a rest!!!!! No they were all else where!
As for me drinking afew beaverages, would I do that!



Regards (Jane too)!

Laura

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

I'm in agreement with Doug, Ron, David, Art, Gordon, JB, and Tom so I don't have a whole lot to add here. (I wasn't at Florida Jets so I don't know what went on there.)

As far as the diamond shaped airfoil is concerned---Why did you even mention it??? It may very well be a little less inefficient....But it works. Most of us would call that sort of criticism "Nit Picking". Same with the comment on the shipping error--Did the whole jet community need to know this??? Even with the comment about the "most uncharcteristic delay" all you did was turn it into a left handed complement.

If you are concerned with the ball links on the Sabre's elevator then go to the type that the R/C car guys use. These are black in color. (Not the clear ones) Believe me--You won't be able to just unsnap these!!! Another thing---If I ever have to take a ball link connector loose, I always replace it with a new one.

Years ago, when I was the jet columnist for "R/C Report Magazine", I got my ***** in a crack with BV. I ran a comparison between two of the new quiet tuned pipes when they first came out. One was a BVM pipe and the other was a first generation Jet Model Products (JMP) pipe. I ran each and recorded my DB readings. The JMP pipe was quieter and I reported this in my column. Simple as that! That issue had barely came off of the press and I received a phone call from a very aggitated BV. BV claimed my tests were flawed. Ya know what----He was 110% correct!!! I did not take into account that BV's larger pipe volume was less restrictive than the JMP pipe. The JMP (First generation) pipe WAS quieter due in part to a reduction in RPM. I printed an appology and corrected information in the next issue. I don't know how many pipes I cost him and was down on myself for the mistakes I made in my testing. As "independent" reporters we have a responsibility to be as honest and correct as we possibly can be-----And if we're wrong, admit it......

Kevin

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

Hi Laura:

Sounds like you three were outnumbered.....

Keep working on Dad....John and Steve promise perfect weather again in November.....with my bigger trailer, I hope to have 4 Jets..HS, Bandit, Cardash Colossus, and IsoBar....so no need for you two to tote anything across the pond...

TA/JA

Goin West

You gotta be kiddin me.

You'd think we were talking about Vito Corlione. You could probably get away with writing threats to the President easier than you can get away with writing (or saying) something unflattering about BV.

David, Kevin's experience should illuminate you a little. He humbly says that he was in error with his report, but either way, he wrote something other than a glowing praise and got a phone call. Don't get me wrong, I love BVM stuff, but this is getting ridiculous.

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Just a correction here, Larry has been using high torque Multiplex servos in his Bobcat since day one.....

F106A

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,
If Bob is so upset, I'm sure he'll pull his advertising from RCJI, just like he did here on RCU and thereby teach RCJI a "lesson". As thin skinned as he is, I'm surprised that he doesn't have something in his advertising contract that states that anything written or implied about BVM, other than positive comments, will result in termination of the contract.
I hope David will continue to write and give his observations and opinions about the products he has bought and uses. IMHO if I were to spend $6000 on a Bobcat, or any model for that matter, I'd want to have all the information about any problem, or potential problem so I could make an informed decision on what to.
I always thought that RCU was for the exchange of info and ideas, but I guess that's not true in all cases.
Regards,
Jon

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

Goin West----

Aw c'mon-----ain't nothin' more than a couple of ex-fighter jocks lobbing a few Stingers at each other.....being an old Navy man myself, I put my money on the Tailhooker....



Tom

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

It is, but you cant always tell alot about the person telling the story, Ive seen and heard problems with stuff, then on here they say they are perfect, doesnt make sense to me:stupid:

I also appreciate all info I can get on a model before I purchase it, whether its expensive or not.

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

Jon:

RCU Jets is 95% soap opera, 4% misinformation, and 1% usable information....not much different than network T.V. or your local print rag......

Tom

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

The same goes in opposite as well John, and Jon. There are several people that have claimed that there is a flaw in the design of the Bobcat in particular. But there are a lot of them flying that have had zero problems. In two of the cases that I know of where the Bobcat seemed to have marginal elevator authority resulting in a crash both of them did not have the linkages done exactly like the plans spelled out. Criticising the model or the design when the flaw is in the building and rigging in my opinion is bad reporting. Maybe that was what David was attempting to report with his article but it was not the way it read to several people.

DR

jason

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Tom,

I almost totaly agree with you,but, I do think the 1% is a slight exageration. There was a time where RCU was full of usefull info and now it seems to be a gossip forum. Some of the contributers in threads like this would find there time better spent at a coffee morning down the local church where they can have a good old gossip.
Still good for a occasional laugh but thats about it.

Look forward to seeing you and Jane at L.W.

rgds
Jason