Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
#1
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Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
I am reading another thread about the pitfalls of SM quality control. I am planning on buying their Mig-29. I have a 3D helicopter background and fly aggressively. My only interest in jets is to 3D them. I have a rookie II with vectored thrust, and would like a bigger model. The red/white/blue Mig-29 with OVT from SM is gorgeous! I am completely fine with sending the wings to an experienced builder and paying him to go over them and put reinforcements where necessary. ( I am not the one to do this ) Would this be important? I'm gonna be rough on this plane.
Thanks
Thanks
#2
RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: DrScoles
I am planning on buying their Mig-29.
I have a 3D helicopter background and fly aggressively. My only interest in jets is to 3D them.
I'm gonna be rough on this plane.
I am planning on buying their Mig-29.
I have a 3D helicopter background and fly aggressively. My only interest in jets is to 3D them.
I'm gonna be rough on this plane.
Sunday's flights of the ShockJet consisted of high speed passes.... inverted, upright and knife-edge, followed by a full elevator stick up or down to the stops at full power. The wings of his jet just couldn't take any more abuse and ultimately failed... yes, right at the spar.
There were 2 things this 'dangerous' pilot didn't know,
1) He was just about to be spoken to about his flying from the CD in charge... complaints began from a few pilots and a couple of spectators, then escalated as the morning went on.
2) If the jet survived the weekend, the pilot was also going to be approached by another CD/ pilot about his flying for the other CD's next area event, of course that didn't need to happen as the plane and engine was completely demolished.
I don't know exactly what type of flying you'd like to do, but if it is at an event with spectators, tone it down if you want to be like the ShockJet pilot... All CDs are taking flight safety VERY seriously, given the FAA is at our front door.
#6
RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
There is no reason that a guy can't fly with vectored thrust, 3d and more conventional aerobatics without common sense and safety. Whilst it's not a bad thing to highlight the risks, it's not fair just to be rude is it?
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: Square Nozzle
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
#8
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: Square Nozzle
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Lovely comment, you have no idea about me or my ability as a pilot. I've been involved with r/c since I was ten, Futaba team pilot, been invited to compete at the XFC twice. I am not some hack who is going to go out and do something stupid. I'm old enough to have bypassed the reckless stage. There are people who enjoy building, I enjoy flying. I am intrigued by the aerobatics a vectored thrust jet can achieve, and look forward to learning 3D with a jet. What I do not look forward to, is spending $10K and having the wings fall off because of a missed glue joint. The poor construction might be suitable for flying circuits and a few rough landings, not sure about tumbles and spins.
I didn't post this to get opinions on whether or not I should be involved in the Jet hobby. My point was to ask if the SM jets, particularly the Mig-29, should be inspected and reinforced due to the QC issues I have been reading about.
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
You don't have to fly aggressively to achieve 3D
A good 3D jet is lightly built.
Have you considered the C-ARF 3D Eurosport with thrust vectoring ?
http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...duct&proId=938
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTXGID9ZNg[/youtube]
A good 3D jet is lightly built.
Have you considered the C-ARF 3D Eurosport with thrust vectoring ?
http://www.carf-models.com/public_ca...duct&proId=938
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTXGID9ZNg[/youtube]
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: DrScoles
Lovely comment, you have no idea about me or my ability as a pilot. I've been involved with r/c since I was ten, Futaba team pilot, been invited to compete at the XFC twice. I am not some hack who is going to go out and do something stupid. I'm old enough to have bypassed the reckless stage. There are people who enjoy building, I enjoy flying. I am intrigued by the aerobatics a vectored thrust jet can achieve, and look forward to learning 3D with a jet. What I do not look forward to, is spending $10K and having the wings fall off because of a missed glue joint. The poor construction might be suitable for flying circuits and a few rough landings, not sure about tumbles and spins.
I didn't post this to get opinions on whether or not I should be involved in the Jet hobby. My point was to ask if the SM jets, particularly the Mig-29, should be inspected and reinforced due to the QC issues I have been reading about.
ORIGINAL: Square Nozzle
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Lovely comment, you have no idea about me or my ability as a pilot. I've been involved with r/c since I was ten, Futaba team pilot, been invited to compete at the XFC twice. I am not some hack who is going to go out and do something stupid. I'm old enough to have bypassed the reckless stage. There are people who enjoy building, I enjoy flying. I am intrigued by the aerobatics a vectored thrust jet can achieve, and look forward to learning 3D with a jet. What I do not look forward to, is spending $10K and having the wings fall off because of a missed glue joint. The poor construction might be suitable for flying circuits and a few rough landings, not sure about tumbles and spins.
I didn't post this to get opinions on whether or not I should be involved in the Jet hobby. My point was to ask if the SM jets, particularly the Mig-29, should be inspected and reinforced due to the QC issues I have been reading about.
#11
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
Built the eurosport without vectored thrust a few years ago, really want the mig! Great Vid! that is exactly the kind of flying I want to do. Just want to make sure that the grossly underpaid worker in china had his lunch that day and didn't forget to glue the wing skins on.
#13
RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
It appears I've sent this thread in a different direction... unintentionally.
Let's get back on track....
3D is not 'agressive' in an airplane (hanging on a prop or hovering over thrust), so I think you won't have a problem with wing strength... given that fact, I was reponding to your key words of flying rough and agressively.
.... carry on fellas [8D]
Let's get back on track....
3D is not 'agressive' in an airplane (hanging on a prop or hovering over thrust), so I think you won't have a problem with wing strength... given that fact, I was reponding to your key words of flying rough and agressively.
.... carry on fellas [8D]
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: DrScoles
...really want the mig!
...really want the mig!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4INOc4aXyA[/youtube]
#15
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
I've watched that video at least ten times! The draw in helicopters is the challenge of learning the different flight directions and tricks. I think learning to hover a jet without gyros would be a similar exercise.
#16
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
If you have to ask yourself if you need to inspect them, then you probably have already figured out in your own mind that you DO need to inspect them. Their is just no way to know for certain and for piece of mind if your happy with the construction.
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
I am completely fine with sending the wings to an experienced builder and paying him to go over them and put reinforcements where necessary. ( I am not the one to do this ) Would this be important? I'm gonna be rough on this plane.
I think you just answered your own question................
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
HI,
Your experience should tell you that if you are going to anything out of the ordanary you should re enforce the areas of concern. not only the wings but also the stab. ect...
Your experience should tell you that if you are going to anything out of the ordanary you should re enforce the areas of concern. not only the wings but also the stab. ect...
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: Square Nozzle
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
At best you have proven the point of how ignorant you are.
Alan
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
How many jet jockeys are also accomplished heli pilots? 2 different disciplines altogether. I give accomplished heli pilots all the cudos. They have amazing and eye coordination. It makes flying planks seem pretty easy.
#22
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: Square Nozzle
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Darren
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: 3DHELINUT
What a nice friendly statement! maybe you should stick to flying a Cub and leave to skies to us who can fly both Helicopters and Jets......
At best you have proven the point of how ignorant you are.
Alan
ORIGINAL: Square Nozzle
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
At best you have proven the point of how ignorant you are.
Alan
#24
RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
ORIGINAL: rrragmanliam
Typical arrogant jet puke. Hey jet community why are there so many of you guys' with this âFâ the newbie attitude?
Darren
ORIGINAL: Square Nozzle
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Do the jet community a favor and stick to helicopters!
Darren
#25
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RE: Should a wing be opened up for inspection before flying?
Dr Scoles,
Since you are "gonna be rough on this plane", I would certainly agree you're doing the right thing and questioning the strength of the wings (regardless of the manufacturer).
Unfortunately, even having an experienced builder examine the wings may not be enough. The wings are sealed up on many ARFs and while you can make some cutouts in the root chord and examine the inside with a bore scope, due to internal structure you may only have a partial view of the interior of the wing. Additionally, much of the strength of glue joints comes from proper preparation of the surfaces to be bonded and you'll likely never know if the prep work was done. If your builder finds an issue deep in the wing, you then have the problem of how to fix it and that might not be possible due to lack of access.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of an instance where someone had a wing fail at mid-span. There have been cases where the wings "clapped" either due to failure of the main spar or of the fuselage formers supporting plug-in spars. Wing alignment tabs have broken, leading edges have opened up, control surfaces have fluttered leading to a variety of failures, H-stabs have come off, etc. If you're going to be tough on the plane, then you really should look at everything not just the wings.
I see that you live in the northwest and I suppose your flying season will be over in the approx 12 weeks that it takes to receive a jet (unless it's in stock). Assuming that you have the time, you might want to get in a dialogue with the manufacturer, Skymaster, as Anton and John frequent this forum, not to mention BVM reps. They should be able to furnish photos of a model in production showing the wings, stab, fins, stab during layup where one skin and the internal structure is shown (but before the unit is sealed up by the addition of the other skin). Additionally, at least one manufacturer offers a "heavy duty" version of several of their planes in which additional layers of carbon fibre are applied.
Thanks for your concerns about safety. Good luck,
Jim
Since you are "gonna be rough on this plane", I would certainly agree you're doing the right thing and questioning the strength of the wings (regardless of the manufacturer).
Unfortunately, even having an experienced builder examine the wings may not be enough. The wings are sealed up on many ARFs and while you can make some cutouts in the root chord and examine the inside with a bore scope, due to internal structure you may only have a partial view of the interior of the wing. Additionally, much of the strength of glue joints comes from proper preparation of the surfaces to be bonded and you'll likely never know if the prep work was done. If your builder finds an issue deep in the wing, you then have the problem of how to fix it and that might not be possible due to lack of access.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of an instance where someone had a wing fail at mid-span. There have been cases where the wings "clapped" either due to failure of the main spar or of the fuselage formers supporting plug-in spars. Wing alignment tabs have broken, leading edges have opened up, control surfaces have fluttered leading to a variety of failures, H-stabs have come off, etc. If you're going to be tough on the plane, then you really should look at everything not just the wings.
I see that you live in the northwest and I suppose your flying season will be over in the approx 12 weeks that it takes to receive a jet (unless it's in stock). Assuming that you have the time, you might want to get in a dialogue with the manufacturer, Skymaster, as Anton and John frequent this forum, not to mention BVM reps. They should be able to furnish photos of a model in production showing the wings, stab, fins, stab during layup where one skin and the internal structure is shown (but before the unit is sealed up by the addition of the other skin). Additionally, at least one manufacturer offers a "heavy duty" version of several of their planes in which additional layers of carbon fibre are applied.
Thanks for your concerns about safety. Good luck,
Jim