Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Little help guys.
I want to get into turbines. I've been flying (mostly scale) for about 28 years. I (as well as others) consider myself a very good pilot. I emphesize"A VERY GOOD PILOT". I have flown everything from high wing loaded warbirds and "old school" aerobatics, to IMAC and 3D, to ducted fan(Byron F16).
I tell you this so you understand... I can fly. I also know about "lag" in spool up time in the turbine. Not "thumbs on", but I know there is a dif. in turbines and gas motors.
Having said the above. Can you please recomend a good first jet for a well seasoned pilot that flies off of grass? I would prefer something like an F15 or F18 but also know not to be stupid with this if you guys say so. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

-Mustang51

pilot tw

I voted the F-15 for first jet,

SinCityJets

Mustang,

For a long, enjoyable time in turbines, I would stay away from the heavy metal, and enjoy a more enjoyable design. If you want the "scale" look, but want sport jet reliability and stability, you can never go wrong with the Comp-Arf Flash. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the absolute strongest, best performing jet airframe made. There are a lot of good airframes, but if you are a "very good pilot" you can skip over the ever stable and ever trustworthy Boomerang airframes (enjoyable but boring after a while). BVM Bandit/Ultra Bandit is always a top choice for top dollar.

A plane like the Flash will give you all the speed and scale look you could want, with a very wide flight envelope. Heavy metal birds are going to be more like work than fun, and your price per flight will inevitably be much higher when it's time is up!

Enjoy.

Chad

ddlstang

My Feedback: (2)

If you fly off of grass don't forget about the gear doors. The F-18 inner main doors can get a little grabby, take that into consideration.

KC36330

the F-15 (and even the F-16) is a very forgiving scale airframe, if you flew the Byron then you should already have the experience with the full flying stabs flight characteristics. as Chad mentioned the Flash is an excellent transition into jets airframe, it's by far the toughest design i've never flow, you can cross the sticks up hard at 200mph and she'll fly out the other side yet still slow down for a 30mph landing.

SinCityJets

KC,

I am writing this date down for the first time you ever agreed with me on anything

Happy Holidays my friend.

Chad

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Thanks guys, I greatly appreciate your help with this.
M51

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

I'm like you. I've been flying a long time, but new in turbines. I too, would recommend staying away from military fighters. It's just the nature of the beast. High wing loadings, and most of the air intakes are toward the bottom, and they suck up grass. Unless you are totally against a "Sport" jet... I would recommend something like a Reaction, Shock Jet, or a Falcon/tornado.

Since you have been flying for a long time, you understand the importance of a trainer. But don't forget... a jet "trainer" is still a high performance aircraft.

sailing1

My Feedback: (134)

Another thing to consider if you will be flying off of grass is the landing gear. An air frame that will alllow you to use trailing link struts will make your life so much easier.

bluescoobydoo

i can recommend a jetlegend l39 for a first jet and also grass operation, slows down well plus its one of the best flying l39 out there for the money

topgun24

My Feedback: (25)

You can't go wrong with the BVM Bandit or Bobcat. I have both and they are amazing planes. The Comp ARF Flash is another excellent choice. All are great flyers.
Having flown all three of these "sport jets" and also having flown heavy metal warbirds like the F-16, F-15 and F-18 as well there is a major consideration which only you can decide.
The sport jets will fly better! They are lighter, faster, more aerobatic ect... Some like the look and more scale type flight of the warbird. I think the F-15 is the best first warbird. They only have the edge on the F-16 in visibility and ease of landing. The F-18 is the hardest of the 3 to land.

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Thanks guys, you're giving great info/advice. Much appreciated!
-M51

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

I don't usually jump in on these threads but when I started flying turbines 12 years ago I had much the same background as you described. I started with a Bandit and immediately started building a BVM F4 as my second turbine. I did come through the DF route with several different airframes. Perhaps more important than your airframe choice swallow a little pride and get some help from an experienced jet guy. Being a BVM rep I will of course recommend any of the guys listed on the BVM website, all are experienced modelers, and willing to help a new guy get over the few differences in the systems, and additional pilot work load that come with flying jets. Good Luck!

David Reid
BVM, Jetcat Rep

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

I'm absolutely willing to swallow some pride Dave, that's why I'm asking the advice of you guys.
I only list my experiance/ability so the guys know who/what they're advice is being given to. If the consensus were to start with a trainer then i would if it were recomended. It's kinda like swithching schools. I just want my credits to transfer if applicable.
-M51

David Jackson

My Feedback: (15)

Eurosport is another good plane. It may not handle grass runways very well.

geh3

My Feedback: (84)

Stay way from heavy scale military jets that have higher wing loadings, straight struts, and complicated gear doors..these will cause issues for your first jet
since you want something forgiving that allows you to learn the habits of flying turbine engines without the constant repair of LGunits and door hinges
DEFINETLYuse trailing link LGstruts for any grass operations

Boomerang Elan: flys great, easy turbine install, takes off and lands off grass superbly (has no wheel doors )
probably the easiest to learn the charastics of a turbine without the complications of an internal thrust tube

Comp-Arf Ultra Flash.. flys great but does have gear doors and an internal turbine install, keep it light, .. do not install a smoke system and use
lighter turbines like the Wren 100 .....lands and takes off grass well will do amy manuver you are capable of!

Viper jet 2M from Extreme Jets... yes it is scale but it has lower wing loading and can use trailing link LG.. flys like a dream.. on mine
Ileft the 2 extra fins off of the rear fuse to avoid adding extra weight up front to balance...great plane

bcree

Just wanted to add my two cents, I agree with the last post on the importance of getting a plane with trailing link struts. I started flying jets about six years ago after flying props for a number of years. I started with an Elan and still have it after 100 plus flights. If money is no object, the Skymaster Viper is a great flier, no trailing link stuts, but large heavy duty gear that would be ok on grass.

KC36330

The gear door on the Flash is as simple as it gets. One hinge, the gear forces it open, wind blows it closed in flight when gear is retracted........please don't let the gear door be a deal breaker on a Flash

PHIL GREENO

Having flown F3D (FAI) pylon racers on and off and then back on for the last 35 years it took me until 2 years ago to finally make the plunge and buy a turbine jet.

Which model should i choose?

A very good long time freind of mine whom you all know (Alan Cardash,Mr Boomerang) had the ideal line of jet trainers but I wanted a composite model and scale if possible.

Well I chose the Carf Hawk which is an excellent kit and flying model.

The Carf Hawk is very good sport/scale jet with trailing link UC legs and flys/and lands from our small grass club feild with no problem at all.

Low speed handling is very good and the model has very good vision in the air,very smooth to fly, a firm favorute with a lot of jet flyers here in the UK.

I also have a Carf Classic Flash which others have said is without doubt one of the best sports jets out there.You cant go wrong with either version of the Flash.

But remember the Flash can be a very fast model.Mine with a JetCat 120SX is 200 mph no problem althought I do not flyot like that a ll the time.

The only problem as far as I am concerned with the Flash is at certain aspects of your flight vision is difficult. I have painted the wing tanks on my "Thunderbirds" model bright red.

I think the only real advice I would give to someone new to Jets but otherwiseavery experenced pilotis pay attention big time to your landings.

Jets are totally different to prop planes weither scale warbirds or IMAC types. The landing can be the most difficult manouver in your flight,get it wrong and you will pay big time.

There are quite large trim changes with 2 stage flaps on some models which for a newbe takes some getting use to.

We all smile when we do a creamer and feel p***t off when its a bouncer.

Phil.

k_sonn

My Feedback: (32)

A lot of guys go from flying aerobatic airplanes to turbines and will advise against scale airframes because they have no experience with heavily loaded warbirds. You say you have experience with heavily loaded warbirds so this isn't the case for you. What you don't have is experience with throttle delay and mushy controls at slow speeds, jets don't have prop wash over the controls. With your experience with warbirds, I would recommend an Avonds or Yellow Aircarft F-15 or a Ziroli Panther. THey aren't as heavily loaded as an F-5 would be and can land at slow speeds. They can aslo handle grass fields.

Kirk

oistein

My Feedback: (1)

I can recommend the Avonds F-15 with robart landing gear. The plane is scale, looks superb. Flies great. Handles grass easily. Very robust. Will give you years of great entertainment. You will no have any problems operating that jet. Jetcat p-140rx would be a good companion.

geh3

My Feedback: (84)

It is very easy to put trailing link type struts on any size viper... Ihave done it to both the 2M and the MKII
makes it much better on grass!!!

MetallicaJunkie

http://wereoutofthisworld.com/ a friend of mine Jack designed his own sport jet.. ive seen it fly, it hauls ass, and lands like a trainer, called the jacknife.

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

I learned to fly jets off grass...so here is my take.. trailing link struts are nice, but not mandatory, gear doors are nice, but totally optional and not recommended for anything rougher than a golf green.

F-16 and f-15 are great airframes but with the intakes so close to the ground, they become giant vacuum cleaners...any grass clippings, or leaves will find their way into your intake and FOD your engine or plug up the screen.

With jets, you are dealing with a lot more systems than even the most complicated scale plane, Two air systems, a fuel system with multiple tanks; perhaps a propane system, two electronic systems - your radio, servos etc, plus the turbine electronics, valves, etc...often powered by multiple batteries.... the turbine itself is a different animal and it takes some getting used to ...how does it behave during the start up sequence, etc. For that reason, an for the first jet, my recommendation is for something with a large hatch on top so that you can access everything easily. It is not uncommon for a jet coming off the building bench to have a few teething problems, a small air leak, or a solenoid plugged in backwards etc etc. Being able to trouble shoot and fix these easily, is a great benefit. There are a few airframes where the entire top comes off...very practical, but unfortunately not necessarily winners in the appearance category...

The flying part is easy - in a lot of ways, easier than a prop plane as there is no torque, or spiral air flow, so flying is cleaner and crisper. Landing, as mentioned, is a bit of a challenge. These jets are slippery and getting slowed down to go down is an exercise in energy management. A go around decision has to be made well before touch down, especially on a short field.

Welcome to the fold, and good luck with your search....

KC36330

A Tam's Super Hornet.