Airdoggy

Ok, I get a turbine and fly it at the field. As I am flying the jet at about 150-160 mph a prop driven "diamond dust" passes me on the outside of a turn and I begin to ponder what the differences are in the two aircraft. After a few seconds it comes to me, in a brilliant flash of light (no I wasn't hit by a turbine), that mine blows hard at the rear and his blows hard at the front. As I am lining up on final, out of the corner of my eye, I can see the large shadow of an aircraft about to envelope me. I look to the right and quickly see what is blocking the sun. Low and behold it is a 40% scale Edge 540 with what appears to me to be two baseball bats turning circles on its nose. I suddenly realize it is just the propeller. I take a second to ponder the differences between it and my aircraft and quickly surmise about 30 pounds, his can cut trees like a weed eater where mine can't, he can lose a hand where I can't, and though his looks slow in the air, it really isn't.

After greasing in my landing I look at the pilot of the diamond dust and the pilot of the huge Edge 540 and try to quickly compare myself to them. First thing I notice is I drink beer, wear cowboy boots, and listen to country music. They however, drink wine, eat cheese, and listen to classical music. I then realize one particular difference, I have a turbine waiver(I don't but if I did) that causes me to jump through hoops every year and they are lackadaisical, footloose and fancy free to do as they please with any type of model they choose. Their models are faster, bigger, and just as dangerous.

So my point is, I think this turbine waiver is a bunch of B.S. and will continue to be. It will only force people to fly at renegade fields and avoid the AMA side of the house. So keep the regulations coming and watch the forthcoming revolution. Now some may ask "how can that be", I'll tell ya. This segment of the hobby is growing like no tomorrow and will continue to do so. It will be impossible to regulate the hordes of new people with the current turbine regulations or proposed regulations. I say this because I believe they will make the same simple observations I do about the "double standard" of different aircraft.

Don't be misled, I am not a big time jet guy. As a matter of fact I just bought my first one and I am in the process of building it. When I am done I will take it to my renegade field and fly the heck out of it. My turbine waiver will be a square of Charmin toilet paper.

This was all in my humble opinion. Now I will sit back and watch the sparks fly. Have a good one. Heh Heh

"I will cut my own path through the valley of resistance and it will be straight and true" Airdogiam

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Airdogiam,
I dont believe you will find many here that disagree with you, are we way over regulated.....yep. But for the rest of us that dont have the option of operating out of "Renegade" fields or have too much to loose by flying without the AMA insurance umbrella are forced to deal with what cards are dealt. On the other hand, I dont disagree with the "Waiver" process..... It weeds out those not ready to handle turbine aircraft, reducing the safety risk for all of us.

Todd

Pegasus

The waiver could be a good thing if one does not have friends in high places! I don't know how many guys I have seen with waiver's and I have no idea how they got them.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

I agree whole heartedly with Todd. I wish I had easy, convenient access to a desert to fly in. But alas, here in southern Lousyana, no such luck. So I gotta play by the rules (which are just not that bad) and hope that some future AMA leadership bothers to look at the factual facts, not the perceived facts.

trumpetjet

My Feedback: (12)

Right on man.

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

I also have to agree with Tod, Woketman, Pegasus, and Trumpetjet. The waiver process is a good thing, but taken to extremes which are not warranted, and some of the regulations were added with minimal input, thought process, and as such are just window dressings without any benefits. With some changes, enforcement where needed, the waiver process could be streamlined, more effective, and less restrictive on the pilots. Hopefully, we will get there in the near future.

DanSavage

My Feedback: (5)

Troll alert...

(This is my humble opinion. Now I will sit back and watch the sparks fly. Have a good one. Heh Heh Heh)

thunderjet

My Feedback: (1)

Correct me if I'm wrong.. But I believe that the AMA states. That any AMA member that operates a turbine powered model. Must have a turbine waiver. Can this jeopardize their regular membership..

Trev Echols

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

20+ LBS and 200 MPH? And in some cases little pointy noses? I am merely a DF pilot but I understand why most of these regs. are inplace- it does not bother me at all...

I can't even fly DF at my field due to noise- Y'all wanna be free to do whatever you want but if it puts folks in danger, well that is a whole other deal**

Being in the insurance business I am surprised that the AMA even extends insurance to operators of turbine aircraft...

Happy turkey day-
james

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

Oh God here we go! Folks fasten your seat belts.

trumpetjet

My Feedback: (12)

What are you talking about?!!!!

There have been no serious accidents involving turbine powered rc jets! Remember the post a while back about the .60 size helicopter that nearly cut a guys head off!!? Killed him instantly!!

Little pointy noses? It must be ok for the ducted fan people to have them but when you put a turbine in the fuselage the plane is magically transformed into a lethal weapon, what a crock.

NdFrSpeed

My Feedback: (1)

[8D]

seflyboy

My Feedback: (1)

I have been following this topic of discussion for sometime now. What I find interesting is that the same thing is said over and over again. Not to mention it is starting to get a Little out of hand in my humble opinion. As I can see it I think as turbine pilots we are going to regulate our selves into submission if we continue on this path.

Lets take into consideration the past couple of years and everything we have gone through as a country. Flying RC airplanes regardless of what they are is not a game and unfortunately there are people out there with other intentions in mind. We have to look at it from all angles get all the facts and yes as much as most of you do not want to support the AMA we need to stand behind them. As members if we come together instead of beating it to death on RCU we will be heard. But this, this has got to stop.

Step back for a minute Turbines are no more and no less dangerous than a ducted fan, or prop jet. The AMA in my book is like any other business regardless if it is comprised of a membership. Think of it as a liability and turbines unfortunately are being used as a scape goat in this matter. People are scared of what they don't understand or comprehend so lets get together and quit the name calling and finger pointing and lets do something about it.

Topics like this that pop up every so often when someone has a bone to pick is not doing us any good.

JetflyerJ

My Feedback: (67)

Just fly guys and try to enjoy your hobby as much as possible, even if they give us a million more obsticles, Quit your whining, support the rules and fly your Jets, no matter what they say we must do, we're gonna do it cause the buttom line is if they say a turbine waiver's gonna cost oh say $300.00 whats gonna happen ? Everyone will make a huge fuss and whine, a million threads will go up about how we this and we that and the end result ? we're paying for it and keep flying.

Enough of the b u l l $ h i t about the rules and regulations guys just fly your jets and enjoy them cause I'm sure as hell not gonna stop flying them over one or ten more speedbumps ahead, Just cross them and fly.
The only thing the AMA is gaining with all this Crap is better pilots and more responsible flying, while all the flips flops and prop Jobs, Choppers etc.... are going to town hurting everyone around. Buttom Line ? quit your b i t c h i n g and worry about doing a kickass flight.


Just my $0.02

Johnny Hernandez

AirGar

My Feedback: (7)

May as well put in my 2 cents.

Turbines are no more dangerous than the DF's, 40% aerobatic planes, or even the propjets. The AMA is simply starting with the turbines...and will "go" from there. They are like any other insurance company.....offer less and less, and charge you more and more, and NONE of them want to pay any "claims". Where's it gonna end?


QUOTE- "The only thing the AMA is gaining with all this Crap is better pilots and more responsible flying, while all the flips flops and prop Jobs, Choppers etc.... are going to town hurting everyone around."

This is absolute HOGWASH! Just because a turbine powered aircraft accident hasn't killed or severly injured someone, warrants this kind of statement?? GET REAL.



Gary

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

I'm also a waiver holder. I've heard that the 'recert' is going to be a rule, just a matter of time so I've decided to save myself a headache and just go ahead and sell my jet. I have a second 'roo' NIB that I may put together later if I find a 'renegade' field to fly at or a field that uses UMA insurance http://www.unitedmodelers.com The new proposal is good for the people that want larger jets/fuel but for the average sport flier it's just a pain in the *****. It's rediculous that you can't use the buddy box system for training, especially since it was good enough to get signed off with under doc #567 "This program requires the applicant to use his or her personal turbine powered aircraft,
controlled via a buddy box system." Thanks to all who offered help. Jon

trumpetjet

My Feedback: (12)

I must apologise for my fit of anger back there....

Everyone knows how you cook frogs right? You do is slowly over time, turning up the heat until they are dead. (and cooked) It seems that in the next 10 years we may not be allowed to continue this hobby at all (turbines). Of course I cant see the future, but this is the way it seems.

Some recent posts have alluded to the fact that we should all stop whining, but how do we go about preserving our hobby?

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Think United Modelers of America. There total turbine regs are, "follow the manufacturer's recommendations". I'd start looking hard at this organisation.

Ehab

My Feedback: (44)

It IS productive to look at the proposed regulations in a clear and fair manner and critique them to benefit us as flyers, doing so by improving the safety and enjoyment of flying . I think we should all work together to improve the jet segment of this hobby but at the same time, we shall refuse to just nod our heads and except everything that is thrown at limiting our fun factor.

Using the body cord system for training and waiver approval is a good idea (assuming the teacher is a good turbine pilot, at least 75 turbine flights under his belt).

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

I have dropped UMA an e-mail and will call their hotline next week for more info about their insurance program...need a copy of the master policy....

Anyone know right now if they provide landowner's and FlyIn coverage? I currently have adequate personal homeowners and PUC coverage in force. That's not what I need from the AMA. But the problem, at least for us in Fond du Lac is site insurance, and insurance for FlyIns, as we routinely fly jets at our home field and non-jet local FlyIns.....

Tom

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

I do know that UMA is used as the site owner's insurance at the Muroc Model Masters field on Edwards AFB. I have not looked into the policy, but it replaced the AMA at that field, so the USAF is happy with it.

B1Driver

My Feedback: (26)

The squeaky wheel gets the grease

WHMC

My Feedback: (15)

Any E link to United Modelers of America? Thanks WHMC

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

Here is the link - http://www.unitedmodelers.com

Not much info there, so its really hard to tell whats really covered. ie, there isn't any mention of a flight line, no set backs, so safety buffer zone, etc. That could be interpreted such that as long as someone doesn't intentionally fly over spectators which is specified, its left fairly open on what you can do. That would make the 3Ds happy, since they can tail touch right in front of a crowd of spectators as long as they don't fly over them, and not break any rules. Grabbing the tail in a hover. 450mph turbines. etc. Are they really ok with all that?

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

Rule 8 seems to take care of that.

Rule #8. I will follow all precautions by manufacturers when flying my models with turbine engines