Misha Javornik

I PURCHASED A ROOKIE LAS OCTOBER FROM ONE OF THE REPS LISTED ON THE COMPOSITE WEB PAGE. THE KIT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AT A FRIENDS HOME SO THAT WHEN I ARRIVED IN FLORIDA IT WOULD BE READY FOR MY RETURNE TRIP TO ARGENTINA. EVENTHOUGH I WAS ASURED THAT THE KIT WAS SHIPPED TO MY SURPREIZE WHEN I ARRIVED, THE KIT WAS STILL IN CALIFORNIA!!! I HAD MAKE SEVERAL CALLS AND FINALY HAD IT SHIPPED TO FORT LAUDERDALE AIRPORT FOR PICKUP ON MY WAY TO MIAMI INTERNATIONAL.
1) WHEN I FINALY GOT IT HOME I FOUND THAT 3 E-CLIPS WERE MISSING FROM THE LANDING GEAR, I MADE SEVERAL CALLS AND E-MAILS TO THEM AND FINALY WAS ASURED THAT THEY WOULD BE SHIPPED ASAP, WELL NEVER GOT THEM. MY FIRST ADVICE IS DON’T BUY THEIR GEAR YOU WILL NEVER GET REPLACEMENT PARTS FOR THEM AND FOR A FEW BUCKS MORE YOU CAN GET REALLY GOOD RETRACTS FORM ROBART.
2) AS THE MANUAL SHOWS THESE PLANES HAVE ALL THE FORMERS GLUED IN AT THE FACTORY BEFORE THE MOLDS ARE CLOSED AND THEY TAKE A LOT OF PRIDE IN THE QUALITY AND ALINMENT.
IN MY OPINION THIS IS A BUNCH OF BS….. THE GLUE USED THROUGHOUT THE JET IS CRAP AT ITS BEST; THE GLUE IS SANDY, BRITTLE, HUGE AMOUNTS USED IN SOME PLACES AND LITTLE OR NONE IN OTHERS. I RE INFORCED ALL THE GLUE JOINTS POSSIBLE WITH BVM AEROPOXY.
3) WHNE I FINALY GOT THE JET READY TO FLY I WAS NOT CONFORTABLE WITH THE CG MENTIONED IN THE MANUAL SO I GAVE A CALL THE ALL THE SALES REPS IN THE U.S. THAT I COULD GET A HOLD OF. WOULD YOU BELIEVE THAT I COULD NOT FIND ONE THAT HAD BUILD OR FLOWN ONE. NEEDLES TO SAY NEVER GOT MORE THAT FOLLOW THE MANUAL OR I WILL FIND OUT AND E-MAIL YOU, WHICH NEVER HAPPENED, I EVEN HAD ONE ASK ME TO SEND HIM PICTURES AND LET HIM KNOW HOW THE FIRST FLIGHT WENT. ANY SERIOUS COMPANY FOR EXAMPLE BVM WHEN THEY APOINT A SALES REP, THEY MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE BUILD AND FLOWN THEIR PRODUCTS AND THAT ARE FULLY QUALIFIED TO REPRESENT THEM NOT IN THIS CASE. COMPOCITE REPS ARE ONLY SALES MEN AFTER A COMISSION.
4) ON MY FIRST FLIGHT ATEMPT ON A GRASS RUNWAY AFTER ABOUT 60 FEET TAKE OFF RUN THE RIGHT MAIN LANDING GEAR WAS TORN OFF. WHEN I GOT IT HOME AND LOOKED AT THE DAMAGE THIS IS WHAT I FOUND. THE LANDING GEAR BLOCKS ARE MADE OFF ONE ¼ PLY FOLLOWED BY TWO LAWERS 1/8 PLY WHICH WERE NOT GLUED TO EACH OTHER AND HAD LITTLE OR NO GLUE WHERE THEY ATACH TO THE SPARS. THIS IS A HUGE MISSTAKE FOR A KIT THAT HAS ALL THEM FACTORY GLUED IN PRIOR TO CLOSING THE MOLDS.
I CALLED THE SALES REP WHO SOLD IT TO ME AND HIS RESPONSE WAS THAT HE COULDN’T HELP ANYMORE BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THE FACTORY HAD TAKEN CARE OF THIS. I TOLD HIM THAT I WAS THINKING OF POSTING THIS ON RCU AND HE ASKED ME TO PLEASE FIRST E-MAIL DIRECTLY ANDREAS AT THE FACTORY AND TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO HANDLE IT. THE FOLLOWING IS THE E-MAIL THAT I SEND FORWARDED TO HIM.

ANDREAS

I AM SENDING YOU A COPY OF THE E-MAIL SEND TO BOB SHAPIRO REGARDING THE FLAG ROOKIE THAT I PURCHASED LAST OCTOBER FROM HIM. I AM VERY DISAPOINTED MAILY BECAUSE EVENTHOUGH BOB HAS TRIED TO HELP ME I HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY OF MY PROBLEMSD SOLVED. I HAVE VERY FEW OPTIONS LEFT SINCE NOBODY SEEMS TO CARE, I WLL GIVE YOU TWO DAYS TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ME AND AFTER THAT I MILL PROCEED TO POST ON RCU EVERYTHING SO THAT AT LEAST PEOPLE WHO ARE THINKING OF BUYING YOUR PRODUCTS WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT OUTLOOK OF YOUR COMPANY - KITS - SERVICE.

SINCERELY

MISHA JAVORNIK

Hi Bob;

Per our conversation this morning and per your request I am putting all this in writing so that you may forward it to whom ever is necessary. As you may recall i purchased a Flag Rookie through you last November.

1) At that time the following items were missing in the kit 3 eclips and one hatch latch used for holding down the turbine hatch. Although i was told that these items would be send to me i never got them.

2) I followed the instructions and balanced the airplane at 97mm in front of the main spar with the retracts in the down position with no fuel on board. When i fill the airplane full of fuel 2 Liter coke bottle plus a header tank the plane is tail heavy giving me very little ground control, therefore i would think that the cg is not correct or it should be balanced with fuel or the gears up ?????????????????????

3) I attempted to fly the airplane this way anyway and on the takeoff roll of a grass runway that has its few bumps the right main gear tore off.............after close inspection of the airframe what i found was that the main gear blocks were not glued in correctly they were barely tacked glued in. The retract plates are one 1/4 ply and two layers of 1/8 ply on top none really glued to each other, I had re enforced all the glue joints in the forward section of the plane and the rear where the turbine goes because i found some gaps plus the quality of the glue itself i found was not very good quality (brittle and sandy texture not a good e epoxy). I didn’t check the main gear glue joints and i regret it now. I am including pictures of the damage that i have, and i truly believe that it could have been avoided had it been glued in correctly i guess these things happen with kits in mass production. I am also sending you a picture of the nose gear plate that i replaced because i found that the same problem would ocurre with it in the future.

4) The main gear unit that tore off has one of the brass nipples where the airline attaches to the retract broken off and needs replaced. The retract unit itself is bent and the lower leg is also bent.

5) I talked to TAM from tam jet pipes last night since i needed some items from him and told him what happened to my rookie. I know he is not a rep from composite ARF but he has been flying a rookie for some time and sadly i didn’t talk to him sooner because he sated that the CG in the manual is incorrect. The CG in the manual talks about 95mm - 100mm in front of the main spar, this would put the CG barely in front of the main retract, he told me that the correct CG should be 2 to 2 1/2 inches in front of the retracts which means that the correct CG is in error by about 50mm from what the manual calls for.

6) Bob as you know i paid 625 for the plane another 350 or so for the retracts, 120 for shipping, 550 for duties to get in the country and boy am i disappointed. The manual shows how proud they are and how they put everything together before the molds are closed yet it seams like the workman ship has lots to be improved. Wouldn’t an extra 20 in good quality glue be too much, i certainly dont think so i would have paid for it.

Well i dont want to say any more hope this helps future rookie productions and forward it to whom ever you think is best.

Regard

Misha


MY RESPONSE

Hi Andreas,

First of all i want to thank you for responding to my e-mail it took 8 months for somebody to from your company to reply. I am not threatening anybody but please try to understand that i have spend a lot of time and money calling bob Shapiro and e-mailing him and other reps trying to get my problems taken care of. When i last spoke to bob on Monday he said that he could no longer help me because he had done everything possible and thought that the matter had been taken care of and since this was not the case, he asked me to first e-mail you directly which i have done, before doing anything else. I have also done this. Please try to understand that all i have been asking for is for the proper customer support, which i think anybody deserves.

Sincerely

Misha


I AM VERY DISAPOINTED, BETWEEN THE KIT –FREIGHT+ TAX I DISHED OUT CLOSE TO 2000. HAD THE KIT COST 50 MORE TO GET A KIT GLUED WITH GOOD GLUE AND MORE IMPORTANT ALL THE GLUE JOINTS PROPERLY DONE I STILL WOULD HAVE PURCHASED IT. DON’T EXPECT TO GET YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY THEIR SALES REPS, AND OR FROM THE FACTORY.

(edited by RCadmin: removed private confidential email response. the issue is being handled offline now)

gaddm580

My Feedback: (8)

DISAGREE!

gaddm580

My Feedback: (8)

I just received my 2.6m Extra (through Bob Shapiro) yesterday. Bob has been VERY helpful while trying to figure out which scheme to choose. Just to order one plane and power box, Bob and I conversed with probably 8 e-mails and I even received a phone call from Bob just to check on how things are going.

Oh, not a scratch on the airframe!

jetguy34695

My Feedback: (11)

I have been dealing with Andy Kane a rep from composite-arf and can not say a single bad thing about his responses and he was very helpful with all my questions. He always answered my e-mails within minutes.

just my experience

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

[:@] My Roo had one landing gear mount off by 10 mm !!!! I cut the holes to the diagram that was before reading the note in the manual saying "shine a light inside the fuse to locate landing gear mounts"

I had to adapt, adjust, ect, since Andreas had no fuses in the USA.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Misha, the 95 to 100 mm CG position is (if I remember correctly) the position given on the original Roo. I flew two at that position for years with no problems. Since the Rookie is quite Roo-like (except for the engine mounting), I suspect that CG is fine. There are a lot of guys that fly Roos nose heavy to help in recovery from chicken-flops, so perhaps that is why Tam uses a more nose heavy CG location.

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

I have owned two Rookies and they both flew at that cg setting. I actually set the last of them pretty far back in the range to allow more dramatic tumbling. I just checked the CG on mine at it is set at 3 3/4" in front of the wing tube (at the front of the retract unit). I have over 120 flights on this plane. I did start off with a very forward CG but found that it was hard to slow down on final without loosing elevon authority because of the excessive nose weight. I agree the gear plates did need some more glue, but I just added it before the install. I will always own a Rookie as a sport jet. At just over $600 shipped to my door I can't afford not to. Fly the Rookie everyday and the scale stuff on occasion.

Sorry to here about your troubles, I hope everything works out for the better.

Rainman-ACRF

If you've got your fuel tank in the wrong place then you're going to have a real challenge with the CofG once it's fueled. If it's placed too far back then you're going to have a problem exactly like you've described with a lack of ground control.

Even with the fuel tank in the correct place, with a full tank, it should only have a slight tendancy to stay on the nose wheel - if you rock it backwards it should still sit on it's tail. If when fueled and sitting on the ground and you press down on the rear and raise the nose gear about an inch off the foor, the nose should still drop back to rest on the ground when you let go. An any model that is powered as a "pusher", once thrust is pushing the model from behind then the nose wheel will be pushed into contact with the ground to a degree, depending on how high the acting force is above the thrust line.

As far as ripping one of your main gear legs off, it must have received quite a whack if you bent it as well. I'm not surprised it got ripped off.

I have a Graupner Harpoon which is the same model, just packaged and redistributed by Graupner in Europe. I've now had a couple of flights on mine and so far been very pleased with the results. I bought mine from a European rep (Dave Wilshere at Motors & Rotors) after we discussed many aspects of the model to ensure that it would meet my own requirements. Dave had already been flying one for quite some time and on his advice I bought one and have been extremely pleased with it - having now had flights with both a P80 and P60 turbines.

With regards to your comments about glue, etc. My manual (albeit from Graupner) makes mention to check all glue joints prior to flying. With any type of ARTF model, rechecking the work that has already been done is real basic stuff - and with a jet you simply can't afford not to. You are the one responsible for the overal build quality and safe operation of your model, irrespective of how much prefabrication has already been done, no one else!

I think it's a bit of a tall order to expect a rep to have flown every single model in the range at any one time, but I would have thought that they would have flown most and certainly earlier generations (ie, Kangeroo). Ultimately, if you decide to buy anything from someone that has never assembled and flown one then that is your look-out. I wouldn't dream of buying anything from anyone unless they were a source that I could turn to in the event of difficulty. It's not really any fault of Bob Shapiro's and at least he's been straight with you in telling you hasn't had any experience of this model - but then there are so many people flying this model and so much information available why should he waste his time and re-invent the wheel? You're being unrealistic.

As far as Andreas' tone in his email - I'm not surprised because your tone sucks. If you start ANY complaint with lines like "I'll give you three days to respond" then I would not be surprised if he "gave you the bird". You made a threat, plain and simple, and no one responds favourably to threats. You made a whole list of complaints but never made clear what you wanted to happen in order to put it right - no wonder you never heard back.

Tough luck buddy, you've done a bang-up job of getting the very people you want to help you against you. Looks like you're on your own.

Phil