Yellow FA-18 Hornet DF Questions
08-16-2002, 11:34 PM
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Yellow FA-18 Hornet DF Questions
Hi Folks,
I have the opportunity to purchase a Yellow Aircraft FA-18 Hornet with an OS .91 ducted fan. The plane was expertly built and never flown.
I have never flown a ducted fan plane, nor have I flown a jet. This is a beautiful monster with scale gear and everything that I could want in such a plane, but will it rear up and bite me? How is this jet to fly? How much of a pain are D/F's to tune and keep running?
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Thankyou,
Ralph
I have the opportunity to purchase a Yellow Aircraft FA-18 Hornet with an OS .91 ducted fan. The plane was expertly built and never flown.
I have never flown a ducted fan plane, nor have I flown a jet. This is a beautiful monster with scale gear and everything that I could want in such a plane, but will it rear up and bite me? How is this jet to fly? How much of a pain are D/F's to tune and keep running?
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Thankyou,
Ralph
08-17-2002, 12:02 AM
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bite you???
Ralph,
First, where are you located ? Altitude ?
To answer your question, yes it will rear up and bite you very quickly. Ducted fans are very different than flying prop planes.
What is your expeience level?
Ducted fans can be a pain because if they are not running at 100%, they fly pretty crappie and can get you in a pickle in a hurry. Higher altitudes affect the power drasticly in a ducted fan and so the overall performance.
The best advice I can give you for starters is to enquire around your local area for anyone flying ducted fans and go watch. Better yet, attend one of the jet rally's and I'm sure someone would be more than happy to answer a lot of your questions.
This is not saying you can't take one of these things on and survive but, getting some help would sure increase your chances of survival.
But there is nothing else that compares to flying jets, but that is my opinion. I fly lots of different prop planes but they seem seem some what boring compared to the "jet rush".
Rod
First, where are you located ? Altitude ?
To answer your question, yes it will rear up and bite you very quickly. Ducted fans are very different than flying prop planes.
What is your expeience level?
Ducted fans can be a pain because if they are not running at 100%, they fly pretty crappie and can get you in a pickle in a hurry. Higher altitudes affect the power drasticly in a ducted fan and so the overall performance.
The best advice I can give you for starters is to enquire around your local area for anyone flying ducted fans and go watch. Better yet, attend one of the jet rally's and I'm sure someone would be more than happy to answer a lot of your questions.
This is not saying you can't take one of these things on and survive but, getting some help would sure increase your chances of survival.
But there is nothing else that compares to flying jets, but that is my opinion. I fly lots of different prop planes but they seem seem some what boring compared to the "jet rush".
Rod
08-17-2002, 12:21 AM
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Flying F18
Hi,
I have flown the Yellow F18 with ducted fan and I do agree that you need to have the engine running at 100% with good remote mixture control (such as BVM's) the supplied OS one will not do a very good job. Which ducted-fan do you have? If its Ramtec then you are better off with their ram-air pressure if others you need to make sure that the pressure line is well connected to the pipe. By the way which pipe and engine (assume OS91)? Ask for expert help is the best and they are usually flying at your local site or at rallies.
The shape of F18 is another thing to watch out for. In the air, the F18 can give you a few disorientation views. You will need to follow the model and anticipate its next move full time!! Specially if yours is painted Blue Angels, the F18 can look the same going or coming at you. This jet flies fast and very sleek.
I have converted my F18 to turbine now and will be flying it this Sunday together with another recently turbine converted F18. I have my PST J600 (12lbs thrust) installed and power should be more than enough. They are great flyers but need good eyes to track them in the air. Flying and landing are normal for fast planes.
Regards,
B777
I have flown the Yellow F18 with ducted fan and I do agree that you need to have the engine running at 100% with good remote mixture control (such as BVM's) the supplied OS one will not do a very good job. Which ducted-fan do you have? If its Ramtec then you are better off with their ram-air pressure if others you need to make sure that the pressure line is well connected to the pipe. By the way which pipe and engine (assume OS91)? Ask for expert help is the best and they are usually flying at your local site or at rallies.
The shape of F18 is another thing to watch out for. In the air, the F18 can give you a few disorientation views. You will need to follow the model and anticipate its next move full time!! Specially if yours is painted Blue Angels, the F18 can look the same going or coming at you. This jet flies fast and very sleek.
I have converted my F18 to turbine now and will be flying it this Sunday together with another recently turbine converted F18. I have my PST J600 (12lbs thrust) installed and power should be more than enough. They are great flyers but need good eyes to track them in the air. Flying and landing are normal for fast planes.
Regards,
B777
08-17-2002, 01:43 AM
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Yellow FA-18 Hornet DF Questions
hi,
7kgs with 2 liters of kerosene (5+2). Yellow scale retracts.
Fly very fast at full 5.5kg thrust with split bifurcated pipe.
Will get pictures here soon.
B777
7kgs with 2 liters of kerosene (5+2). Yellow scale retracts.
Fly very fast at full 5.5kg thrust with split bifurcated pipe.
Will get pictures here soon.
B777
08-17-2002, 01:46 AM
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F-18
Hey,
One guy asked about your experience level, and that's the most important question of all, so far. If you've flown fast prop-planes, and heavy scale-type, you'll probably be fine with the Hornet. There are definitely some differences, and an experienced jet guy would be invaluable as far as that goes, but as far as DF jets go, the Hornet is a very easy one to fly.
The fellow who cautioned you about the paint scheme is right, though; that one can be tricky. As far as flight ops go, the hardest thing about that bird is ground handling if the gear aren't properly set up.
If the fan is the Dynamax, hopefully you'll have the JMP pitot pressure set up. That's the best way to go with that particular combo. I wouldn't worry at all about altitude if you've got the engine dialed in properly. I've flown that plane at 6500' with no problems at all.
Hope this helps, and let us know what gear the plane has.
One guy asked about your experience level, and that's the most important question of all, so far. If you've flown fast prop-planes, and heavy scale-type, you'll probably be fine with the Hornet. There are definitely some differences, and an experienced jet guy would be invaluable as far as that goes, but as far as DF jets go, the Hornet is a very easy one to fly.
The fellow who cautioned you about the paint scheme is right, though; that one can be tricky. As far as flight ops go, the hardest thing about that bird is ground handling if the gear aren't properly set up.
If the fan is the Dynamax, hopefully you'll have the JMP pitot pressure set up. That's the best way to go with that particular combo. I wouldn't worry at all about altitude if you've got the engine dialed in properly. I've flown that plane at 6500' with no problems at all.
Hope this helps, and let us know what gear the plane has.
08-18-2002, 12:03 AM
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Yellow FA-18 Hornet DF Questions
Ralph,
Yellowaircraft is absolutely correct. Ground handling is very tricky on the F18. I managed to calm it down by using spring-tensioned nose gear steering cables and steering dual rate on takeoff (keep rudders' rate the same). A gyro might help but I havn't tried it since the handling is fine with the configuration I have. Another point, tubine models usually have brakes installed and can abort takeoff much easier than DF models that do not have brakes and usually get damaged from over-run. Just keep this in mind during takeoff rolls...abort early.
It is a great flyer and I have three more in the box. Don't forget, this is a fast bird and your skill level must be in the above experienced level capable of tracking and commanding high speed r/c planes. The F18 is easy to fly in the hands of experienced DF/turbine jet pilots. You may need a helper for retract, flaps, and mixture control during your first few flights. If you still get confused with left/right or disoriented often, then I suggest that you wait awhile before taking on the F18 or any DF for that matter.
Want to have fun?...fly jets.
B777
Yellowaircraft is absolutely correct. Ground handling is very tricky on the F18. I managed to calm it down by using spring-tensioned nose gear steering cables and steering dual rate on takeoff (keep rudders' rate the same). A gyro might help but I havn't tried it since the handling is fine with the configuration I have. Another point, tubine models usually have brakes installed and can abort takeoff much easier than DF models that do not have brakes and usually get damaged from over-run. Just keep this in mind during takeoff rolls...abort early.
It is a great flyer and I have three more in the box. Don't forget, this is a fast bird and your skill level must be in the above experienced level capable of tracking and commanding high speed r/c planes. The F18 is easy to fly in the hands of experienced DF/turbine jet pilots. You may need a helper for retract, flaps, and mixture control during your first few flights. If you still get confused with left/right or disoriented often, then I suggest that you wait awhile before taking on the F18 or any DF for that matter.
Want to have fun?...fly jets.
B777
08-18-2002, 03:10 AM
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F-18
Shaun,
Whats the fastest speed can you expect to fly with the F-18/Os91 setup, and is it possible to install a BVM 91 without major mods.
How much Runway is needed to T/O and land, and does it have gear doors and whats the recommended weight RTF for the yellow F-18.
Thanks
Robert
Whats the fastest speed can you expect to fly with the F-18/Os91 setup, and is it possible to install a BVM 91 without major mods.
How much Runway is needed to T/O and land, and does it have gear doors and whats the recommended weight RTF for the yellow F-18.
Thanks
Robert
08-18-2002, 06:25 AM
#9
Yellow FA-18 Hornet DF Questions
Hi,
I saw a Hornet clock at 165. This particular one had four wing pylons on it, but it really hauled.
It doesn't have gear doors on it, and you'd need to modify it quite a bit you utilize a BV fan. I really doubt that it would make any difference, the way it does in some other YAC applications. You can get it up to 17 pounds DF without worrying too much. On takeoff, you'll want at least 300'. It's better with flaps. On landing, depending on your flap throw, you can get it down in half that distance without brakes (once you've got a little practice).
A note on ground handling: To eliminate wingtip-dance, you have to add about three degrees of toe-in on the mains, but, more importantly, you have to install the gear legs and hardware so tight and slop free that they won't move with side load. The dancing isn't caused by the nose gear at all, but castering in the mains which is there because of the leverage that the bent gear have on the music wire post in the gear block.
This bird is an easy-to-fly DF plane, in general, and not just in the hands of an experienced jet pilot. It's probably the easiest to fly of all the scale jets that we sell. Good luck!
I saw a Hornet clock at 165. This particular one had four wing pylons on it, but it really hauled.
It doesn't have gear doors on it, and you'd need to modify it quite a bit you utilize a BV fan. I really doubt that it would make any difference, the way it does in some other YAC applications. You can get it up to 17 pounds DF without worrying too much. On takeoff, you'll want at least 300'. It's better with flaps. On landing, depending on your flap throw, you can get it down in half that distance without brakes (once you've got a little practice).
A note on ground handling: To eliminate wingtip-dance, you have to add about three degrees of toe-in on the mains, but, more importantly, you have to install the gear legs and hardware so tight and slop free that they won't move with side load. The dancing isn't caused by the nose gear at all, but castering in the mains which is there because of the leverage that the bent gear have on the music wire post in the gear block.
This bird is an easy-to-fly DF plane, in general, and not just in the hands of an experienced jet pilot. It's probably the easiest to fly of all the scale jets that we sell. Good luck!
08-18-2002, 04:36 PM
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tailerons ?
Shaun,
I have been following this thread as I am getting ready to test fly my Yellow F-18 again soon.
I did fly it once about 12 years ago....at the 12" CG mark. Now the recommended CG seems to be 12 1/2". In my earlier test flight I can remember two things....
1. It did not want to rotate on the take off roll. I was not using flaps. I will use flaps this time but what is the recommended flap setting for takeoff?
2. In the air, I had my hands full trying to get it to bank and turn. This may have been trouble with the CG setting at 12". It would instantly get behind the power curve and want to plow like a three wheeler . The only way to get it to come around, was to reduce power, push down and then it would bank and come around with added elevator. The jet is set up with tailerons only.
IN your experience what are the differences in performance between tailerons and ailerons. What little quirks can a guy expect to experience with just tailerons and what is the most important thing to watch out for when flying this way ?
Thanks.......Rod
I have been following this thread as I am getting ready to test fly my Yellow F-18 again soon.
I did fly it once about 12 years ago....at the 12" CG mark. Now the recommended CG seems to be 12 1/2". In my earlier test flight I can remember two things....
1. It did not want to rotate on the take off roll. I was not using flaps. I will use flaps this time but what is the recommended flap setting for takeoff?
2. In the air, I had my hands full trying to get it to bank and turn. This may have been trouble with the CG setting at 12". It would instantly get behind the power curve and want to plow like a three wheeler . The only way to get it to come around, was to reduce power, push down and then it would bank and come around with added elevator. The jet is set up with tailerons only.
IN your experience what are the differences in performance between tailerons and ailerons. What little quirks can a guy expect to experience with just tailerons and what is the most important thing to watch out for when flying this way ?
Thanks.......Rod
08-19-2002, 01:43 PM
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F18
I have many flights on this bird. It is not a very good choice for a first DF ship. The CG is critical don't overcontrol the surfaces. Be sure you have a great running engine with a good onboard mixture control. With a scale look (nose level wit the ground) you will need about 15 degrees of flap to make a good TO.
Be sure to get plenty of assistnce from a person with experience with DF's. This is no time to let the ego take over.
JB
Be sure to get plenty of assistnce from a person with experience with DF's. This is no time to let the ego take over.
JB
08-19-2002, 05:18 PM
#13
Yellow FA-18 Hornet DF Questions
Rod,
It sounds to me like you definitely were tail-heavy. If you've got the model a little nose heavy, it will still fly OK, but if it's tail heavy, especially if you've got tailerons, then it's gonna be bad.
I prefer conventional controls. I've flown the Hornet with tailerons, and it flew just fine, but I still prefer the aileron/elevator setup. If you're gonna fly tailerons, just make sure that the airplane is balanced per the plans (most recent), with the gear UP.
This aircraft does require good mixture control, but no more than any other DF airplane. If you're using the conformal fuel cells, then there will not be mixture fluctuation with nose attitude like there is if you use the big tank up front. It's only CG critical if you don't balance it properly. Balance it per the instructions, then the CG will not be an issue. Use the conformal cells, they help considerably with CG/mixture issues. This airplane is easier to fly than many sport-jets, so don't be afraid to fly it as a first jet. It can be tricky on the ground if the main gear are not toed in and locked there hard. Good luck!
Use 15-20 degrees of flaps on takeoff, and the plane will rotate much easier and sooner. Get them up, though, on the upwind.
It sounds to me like you definitely were tail-heavy. If you've got the model a little nose heavy, it will still fly OK, but if it's tail heavy, especially if you've got tailerons, then it's gonna be bad.
I prefer conventional controls. I've flown the Hornet with tailerons, and it flew just fine, but I still prefer the aileron/elevator setup. If you're gonna fly tailerons, just make sure that the airplane is balanced per the plans (most recent), with the gear UP.
This aircraft does require good mixture control, but no more than any other DF airplane. If you're using the conformal fuel cells, then there will not be mixture fluctuation with nose attitude like there is if you use the big tank up front. It's only CG critical if you don't balance it properly. Balance it per the instructions, then the CG will not be an issue. Use the conformal cells, they help considerably with CG/mixture issues. This airplane is easier to fly than many sport-jets, so don't be afraid to fly it as a first jet. It can be tricky on the ground if the main gear are not toed in and locked there hard. Good luck!
Use 15-20 degrees of flaps on takeoff, and the plane will rotate much easier and sooner. Get them up, though, on the upwind.
08-20-2002, 02:39 AM
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not first jet
Diceman,
Well at least this is not my first jet experience. My hanger consists of several ducted fans and one BVM Mig 15 turbine. I agree this is not a first jet for most....I still consider the ITP F-104 Starfighter my biggest butterfly machine tho....I figure if I can fly that one , I should be able to get this thing in the air..hope so anyway!!!
Shaun,
I have the semi-scale gear on this plane and the ground handling appears not to be an issue. It tracks straight and true and does not have any adverse tendencies to be squirrley.
It weights in at 14 3/4 lbs dry.
If I remeber right the CG was to be at 12 1/2 " from the trailing edge with the gear up and the conformal tanks FULL. is this correct ?
I am using the BVM inflight mixture control on this bird, conformal tanks and a two oz header..everything seems ready for a go......except the job is now putting a crimp on the test flight prior to taking it up to Whidby Island this coming weekend....
Thanks for all the info
Rod
Well at least this is not my first jet experience. My hanger consists of several ducted fans and one BVM Mig 15 turbine. I agree this is not a first jet for most....I still consider the ITP F-104 Starfighter my biggest butterfly machine tho....I figure if I can fly that one , I should be able to get this thing in the air..hope so anyway!!!
Shaun,
I have the semi-scale gear on this plane and the ground handling appears not to be an issue. It tracks straight and true and does not have any adverse tendencies to be squirrley.
It weights in at 14 3/4 lbs dry.
If I remeber right the CG was to be at 12 1/2 " from the trailing edge with the gear up and the conformal tanks FULL. is this correct ?
I am using the BVM inflight mixture control on this bird, conformal tanks and a two oz header..everything seems ready for a go......except the job is now putting a crimp on the test flight prior to taking it up to Whidby Island this coming weekend....
Thanks for all the info
Rod
08-20-2002, 02:54 AM
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Yellow FA-18 Hornet DF Questions
Rod,
I look forward to seeing your F-18 This is one of my top 3 airplanes in the RC jet area. So I hope you get your test flight in, else just bring it anyway for show and tell.
Mike
I look forward to seeing your F-18 This is one of my top 3 airplanes in the RC jet area. So I hope you get your test flight in, else just bring it anyway for show and tell.
Mike
08-20-2002, 05:19 PM
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Re: not first jet
Originally posted by rcs1313
Diceman,
Well at least this is not my first jet experience. My hanger consists of several ducted fans and one BVM Mig 15 turbine. I agree this is not a first jet for most....I still consider the ITP F-104 Starfighter my biggest butterfly machine tho....I figure if I can fly that one , I should be able to get this thing in the air..hope so anyway!!!
Shaun,
I have the semi-scale gear on this plane and the ground handling appears not to be an issue. It tracks straight and true and does not have any adverse tendencies to be squirrley.
It weights in at 14 3/4 lbs dry.
If I remeber right the CG was to be at 12 1/2 " from the trailing edge with the gear up and the conformal tanks FULL. is this correct ?
I am using the BVM inflight mixture control on this bird, conformal tanks and a two oz header..everything seems ready for a go......except the job is now putting a crimp on the test flight prior to taking it up to Whidby Island this coming weekend....
Thanks for all the info
Rod
Diceman,
Well at least this is not my first jet experience. My hanger consists of several ducted fans and one BVM Mig 15 turbine. I agree this is not a first jet for most....I still consider the ITP F-104 Starfighter my biggest butterfly machine tho....I figure if I can fly that one , I should be able to get this thing in the air..hope so anyway!!!
Shaun,
I have the semi-scale gear on this plane and the ground handling appears not to be an issue. It tracks straight and true and does not have any adverse tendencies to be squirrley.
It weights in at 14 3/4 lbs dry.
If I remeber right the CG was to be at 12 1/2 " from the trailing edge with the gear up and the conformal tanks FULL. is this correct ?
I am using the BVM inflight mixture control on this bird, conformal tanks and a two oz header..everything seems ready for a go......except the job is now putting a crimp on the test flight prior to taking it up to Whidby Island this coming weekend....
Thanks for all the info
Rod
best wishes to you on your F-18..........
Jackjet
