rcmigpilot

My Feedback: (26)

Tried to test fly my Rookie II this past Sunday and it almost ended in disaster. The plane is balanced at 125mm in front of the wing tube as listed in the manual but the plane bounces off the nose wheel quite a lot and does not steer well on the grass that I fly from. My problem was that just as I was coming up in the power I hit a bump, the plane veered left and full right steering did not have any effect. The plane went off into the tall grass, hit a rut and broke the front gear trunnion. There was no other damage. Anyone else having problems with the Rookie on grass?

digitech

My Feedback: (10)

it is very light on the nose wheel yes , however the cg must be at 130mm in front of the tube.
what oleo,s or gear you use?.
just aplly full power and pull up , normaly everyone has the problem to land not to take off.

erbroens

Some pics of your landing gear setup would help..

Enrique

Airforce7

My Feedback: (31)

Yes, the Rookie II is a bit light on the nose wheel and I have the Robart 630s from DreamWorks installed. On an earlier flight, I came in for a landing and watched helplessly as my jet bounced at least 5 times over 300 ft, with each bounce worse than the previous, until it came to a stop. Result, busted trunnion and slightly bent strut. I've already switched out all three trunnions for higher strength ones and haven't had a problem since. I also replaced the spring inside the nose wheel strut for a softer one, much more forgiving. This was on a proplex type runway (surface). I don't have any flights off grass. My CG is also 130mm in front of the wing tube.

rcmigpilot

My Feedback: (26)

My gear are the generic Robart 630s with Airpower wheels. I'll probably switch to a new Robart trailing arm strut on the nose when they're available. My problem did not happen during landing, I never got off the ground. Don't get me wrong, I was not totally blameless. I over steered on the turn around on the runway and should have corrected the runway alignment prior to coming up on the throttle, but didn't think it was going to be a big deal to steer out of it. What caught me by surprise was how little control I ended up having because the front end was bouncing so much. I don't remember exactly where my CG is within the range given, but it is not as far forward as 130mm. I'll try moving the CG forward as I'd much rather have it a bit nose heavy for the first flights.

CARBUNCLE

If the plane has to high of a nose up attitude while sitting on the ground it will have a tendency to bounce and have less nose steering control even with the cg very close to 130.. The digitech gear (best on the planet) set up for the rookie is adjustable somewhat by cutting off the nose pin and shimming the mains ... and if---- Sandor----- would tell me how to get the stronger main springs it would be even better.. and always make sure ur plane is aimed straight down the strip then ease the power on.. Remember these motors take at least 3 seconds to come off the power too, by that time ur plane can get in a lot of trouble... If u go to half throttle, get it rolling , make sure it's going straight then open it up to desired max takeoff power you'll have more time to abort safely.. These rookies will take off in 35ft if u want them to, but I have only done it a time or 2 because of the increased risk of tragedy.

frankie

I have the mark 1 rookie which had the exact same problems. To reduce the bounce problem, I found it didn't really matter what type of
nose strut was used, but the nose strut spring would have to be very light to allow the strut to COMPRESS easily. Rotating as soon as you
have enough air speed is the other key to avoid the take-off bounce, and if you do begin to bounce, don't let it continue, pull out of it asap.

I do however think that moving the C of G forward can be a double edged sword in that it may help the nose stick, but on the other hand
it may increase your take off and landing speeds and put you at a higher risk of bouncing on take off and landing. My approach to the problem
for this bird has been to put the C of G close to the rear limit, and really slow the plane right down for landing, so that when I do land I have full
elevator applied, and the aircraft is close to the stall. Similarilly, the take off is performed as soon as the aircraft is at flying speed.

I realise that I have the mark 1 rookie, but I believe that same techniques will work for your bird.

This approach has worked very well, and the Rookie has many flights logged. I hope this helps you. Best regards, Frank.

digitech

My Feedback: (10)

we now have the Front oleo we use for the XL also apdapted for the RookieII with a very gentle spring.
i saw a video from one of you guys send to me showing a landing.
my opinion? to damn fast (no offence) , a Delta needs to be slowed down until the nose raises and you drag it in.
this way you will have very gentle landing and almost no bounces.
if it happens to bounce again on landing and cant control it doint be afraid to hold a bit elevator until it stabilises in the air again.
dont try to control the bounce just apply elevator , it is almost impossible to make a well balanced delta to drop nose first.
i use a bit of canard in up position to raise the nose , apply speed brake and slow it down until its a s s drops and apply some power
and glide it in..

sorry guys no stronger springs for now , i am currently looking for them.
however i am thinking to have all my oleo,s also fitted to different landing gears
what sizes are they normaly? 1/2 inch?

(grass flyers) dont be afraid on first attempts to land it gear up .you wont break anything and you can almost stop on a dime!.
believe me i invented the belly landings beofre the jet-1a era ;-)

Mavpro

I ballanced it spot on where it was told to be, and I saw that when taxiing on grass, the nose bounced quite a lot. I changed (for another reason) the ECU LiPO to a larger and a little bit heavier one (some 10 grams - battery placed 10 cm behind firewall). Was thinking of reconfiguring the C/G, but decided to see what happened during taxi, take off and landing. First impression was that the bouncing during taxi was gone. Take off (the plane weighs some 7,2 kg empty. SimJet 1200 GE, 2,5 litres of fuel) after 40 metres using very little up elevator + active thrust vectoring. No bounces what so ever. Flies as if on rails. Landing: Important: on last up-wind, throttle to 50%, gear down, full speed brake. Maintain throttle setting during 180 degree turn for downwind. Throttle between 20-30%. On base/final turn adjust throttle to "safe-non stall speed". Then, the most important: on final - slow down, NOSE UP slightly (if it doesn't come up automatically i.e no wind - add elevator till it does!), and watch for descent, When descent established, adjust speed of descent with throttle. The plane tells you that ideal approach speed is reached when slight "wagging" appears just before reaching treshold. Treshold passed - full idle. Flare long and safe, and the plane kisses the runway...no bouncing at all. The Rookie, and it's predecessor only bounces because of too high landing speed. This is pilots fault, and only his. Now; I'm not sure how far fwd the C/G was moved, but getting rid of that taxi-bouncing was a pleasure. In flight, the plane seems perfect. My conclusion: why not move the C/G fwd enough just to stop it from bouncing? No trouble at all, if you ask me.

Asif

My Feedback: (30)

rcmipilot,
I flew my rookie II today for the second time, and I made two flights. I think my CG is 120 mm. It is little light on nose, but my handling and ground control is excellent. No bouncing or and other issues that I had with Kangaroo. I flew from a grass filed, but to my delite the ground handling was very good. You might want to play with your CG. I have new intairco gears, and they are very nice. Also make sure when you balace or rebalance you don't have fuel in your main tanks ..... just in UAT
Asif

CARBUNCLE

Another factor in this situation that comes into play a little is thrust pitch angle. As I said before I don't have the vector pipe active for take-offs but I played with (adjusted) it's neutral position up and down and it does have some effect on nose steering and nose bouncing.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I am just in the process of assembling the New Rookie. I also have a Kangaroo. The Kangaroo has a belly speed brake.

The instructions for the New Rookie indicate that 80% Canards can be used instead of a Speed Brake. I do not want to cut out a Speed Brake, in the belly of the New Rookie, if it is not necessary.

The Canards have a tube, with a tiller arm, that connects the two carbon fiber rods together. The tube has 4 set screws that screw into the carbon fiber rods. Is that adequate? Won't it wear after a time and come loose? It appears that the tube sockets, for the canard rods, have to be cut back in order for the tiller tube to be attached to the canard rods, in the middle.

CARBUNCLE

There are guys who have not cut out the belly and used the canards as an air-brake without problems, but the canards in normal use help with the landings a huge amount and combined with the belly airbrake it seems the best way to go to me imo-(with 195 safe-rookie flts).. Nobody wants to cut into those beautiful bellys but it is what you have to do, just follow the instructions and it is easy.. leave in the built in hinge, but cut all the way thru 1 inch on each end of the hinge side to allow for curvature from side to side.... and yes you have to cut the canard tubes for the coupler to fit (my instructions said that), don't over tighten the canard screws or carbon fiber will split.. loctite the screws. In normal use they will work great but if you use them as an air-brake and go too fast- good luck...... Had to add this pic, not mine but love the pic.. The rookie and rookie 2 are jets that have opened a whole new way to fly r/c jets, a way that many veteran r/c jet flyers said could not be done. The pic to me symbolizes the rise of the rookie's fame- First on the moon. One small step for an r/c jet, a giant leap for the sport.

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks!!!

What about the Thrust Vectoring? Is it just a gimmic or can it be used successfully for purposes other than Aerobatics, such as Takeoffs and Landings? Is a 360 deg Thrust Vectoring mechanism being developed? I heard that Wolfgang Klure was flying with such a device.

digitech

My Feedback: (10)

360?

you want to go reverse?

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I meant Up, Down, Right, Left Thrust Vectorin at any desired angle. I was told that Wolfgang was hovering using this type of Thrust Vectoring.

At any rate, I was interested in details as to how well the factory supplied Thrust Vectoring was working.

Airforce7

My Feedback: (31)

Where did you take that picture of my Rookie II Carbuncle, BITW or CA Jets? I love it! I'd like to get the high res version if you have it please.

You got to have a speed brake on this jet; it will never slow down enough on landing. I know I tried to land it last weekend without the brake and bent one of my mains. I went a bought the Jet-1A trailing link gear this week. I have the belly speed brake cut out on mine. I don't like the idea of the canards as the speed brake. I've seen video of them being used and don't like how the jet handles when they are activated. I've also seen a canard brake (splinter) at the pivot point just before it enters the fuselage from to much throw. I've got medium loctite on my M3 socket head screws holding the canards together. It holds together just fine. I believe there is a fair amount of play in the canards as the jet is flying around.

62 flights and counting...

Ken

Asif

My Feedback: (30)

I have flown my new Rookie II few times now. I don't have speed brakes under belly, instead use canards as speed brakes. It pitches up a bit but settles down in 2-3 seconds. some folks are hesitant to us canards as speed brakes, but I say go for it.
Asif

amjflyer

I fly mostly of grass (90%) and alot of jets seem to skip around on the nose as they are accelerating but once a critical airflow develops and they start flying on the ground they quickly stabilise and amazingly the nose settles and you have control again (over say 15mph). The key seems to be build the speed slowly at first (say slow to quarter throttle), get lined up and tracking straight (abort if unhappy, or if nose ocillation amplifys ie bounces), then quickly advance to full and rotate asap. It seems to just take a bit of 'clenching' to get past that low speed stage of little control. On tar i just dont have this problem at all, but i still prefer grass for other reasons.

CARBUNCLE

Just pitch vectoring as it comes from the factory is not nearly as radical on flt characteristics as both yaw and pitch.. I don't believe the factory is supplying the 2 axis vector equiptment - yet, but they may never. They may be reluctant to do so due to the extreme affect the yaw movement has on the a/c.. It turns the rookie into a very different flying jet with the yaw thrust control added and used. You can get into trouble with it very easy. They may think the general public is not ready for such a radical a/c.. Things like a rash of crashs could jeopardize sales or something like that, etc.. You can make your own 2 axis vectoring gimble, that uses the stock pipe, by using a 4.5 diameter aluminum ring about 1/4 inch thick.. Do a search of my past posts and you'll find details and pics on how to do it, it's very easy, very little special machining- if any- is needed.

CARBUNCLE

Sry Ken, I got that pic from a thread about one of those events months ago.. I assume one of your buds took it, I can't believe you've never seen it.. yea I love it to.. a little closer and clearer would be great tho.. Next time the moon is out like that in the daytime, have another good camera guy ready and do it again, but better.. Several passes and many shots will produce a winner I bet..

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

Back to my original question - How effective is the single axis Thrust Vectoring and what are some examples of how you would use it? I assume you would set it up on a separate channel and mix it as necessary?

maverick101

My Feedback: (34)

http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/prod...ed09430ca406ad

Check out this link to Dreamworks and you will see the four way thrust vector system they are offering....

I have been flying my Rookie with no airbrake....Just the canards....works just fine....


Tommy

CARBUNCLE

Just stock pitch vectoring (single axis) assists in take-offs and landings (both done with caution), especially at first because it can do some stupid/surprising/dangerous things even with just the pitch vectoring on), and you would not be able to do much more than a flip flop maneuver. That might be a good way to get used to the a/c first, then go with the 2 axis set up later. And yes I would set-it up on a switch to be able to turn it on and off. At hi speeds any vectoring can be touchy/dangerous. Also to Tommy, no offense to you or the great sellers and/or makers of the 2 axis vector kits that are being sold by several great people with lots of other great equipment - that I happily buy and use - but those 2 kits are not anything I would/could use- again. One has too small of a diameter and will slowly burn up your motor due to restriction (been there done that) unless it's no larger than a p-80 or 100 size motor used with low rates of vectoring., and the other seems to have been designed for a roo or other open rear-motor planes but will work and has a larger diameter than the previously mentioned but you may/will have to really butcher the tail of the fuse to make it work- it seems- and it looks heavier than just a simpler gimble ring like wolfgang, me and many others have homemade. I cut mine out with a cheap hand held jigsaw from a plate of some old aluminum I bought for 50 cents at a scrap yard, then dremeled it prettier, got a bud to drill and tap the holes perfectly at his machine shop- but it could be done with a hand drill and a vise, just not as easy to get perfect.. So BuschBarber, unless you make your own set-up , maybe by the time someone sells a good one you'll be comfortable with the a/c and more ready for it than using it from the start. I flew many flts before I ever turned the vectoring on just to get used to normal flt characteristics of the a/c. Getting to the point of fully utilizing the rookie's potentials with the 2 axis vectoring was a long, safe, baby step by step process for me and I would suggest that for anyone interested in this new uncharted territory.. ....... ... (Like space flight- it,s very unforgiving)

Sonicwings

Hi All,

Just found this thread--- and in need of some HELP--- my Rookie 2 is coming along, shall be into fit out next week, have Behotec retracts and there NEW trailing link main struts, look interesting and be keen to see how they perform, Behotec J66 motor for now, may go bigger later.

Now im trying to get my head around RADIO programing needs for this bird--- So keen to hear what others have done with linking in the Cannards and thrust tube into the program ??? when you turn it on and off ??? and any help with making the program work please ???
My radio is a JR 9303 i think you number it in the USA, and here and elsewere JR9x11, 10 channel rx, or i have just got hold of the latest Futaba 12FG to play with, so maybe more options in the new programing on it---
Im thinking i want the Cannards on for takoff and flight with 25 degree throw, able to swith off if need be, and i want to put them ALSO on a flap setup so i can switch them to 80 degree for landing ???????? NO belly airbrake--- But so far bench playing i cant sort a program----
Cheers Jay.