Another Skymaster in the fleet
09-03-2006, 02:45 PM
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Another Skymaster in the fleet
The fleet just got a little bigger with the addition of this fine F5. If there is anyone out there with working outer main gear doors I would love to see some photos.
09-03-2006, 07:54 PM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Ken, your father was out today showing us how the rookie2 was to be flown 
he makes it look easy!! Anyway the F5 flew nice, it took forever to rotate (C/G maybe a little to far foreward} and for some reason every skymaster I have flown blows the tires off the rims on the 1st flight so this was no suprise when the tires started wobbling. The part betewwn take off and landing was nice and the P120 is a perfect match.
he makes it look easy!! Anyway the F5 flew nice, it took forever to rotate (C/G maybe a little to far foreward} and for some reason every skymaster I have flown blows the tires off the rims on the 1st flight so this was no suprise when the tires started wobbling. The part betewwn take off and landing was nice and the P120 is a perfect match.
09-03-2006, 08:37 PM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
William
Nice fleet of Jets.
I am in the assembly process on my SM F5E and will track your flying experience with a keen eye. Please can you confirm that all the throws and C of G position was as per the SM instructions.
Three more questions; did you take of with any flaps, and did you set up the F5E with a positive angle of attack when standing on the ground? I ask these as it would seem from other comments by guys flying these jets that it helps to lengthen the nose strut or mount the nose gear a bit lower. Also it seem that the take off run is shorter and with less speed when you use some flap for take off - hence not throwing the tires. What is your total dry weight?
Regarding the doors, it seems to me the best will be to attach them to the oleos, ala BVM style. If the retract hinges in line with the door cut out, then hinge the door on the wing and use a piano wire with two BVM style gear door strut swivel points The trick is to measure the distance from door to strut when wheels are retracted, then make piano wire that length and position BVM swivel points that far apart when door closed and wheels retracted. This way the piano wire will hold door open and away from the strut when the wheels are down. If the the hinge point of the door and oleo are different. First try the above method, some time you can make it work. However, if like on the Hawk, you will have to go to plan B. Then simply retract the wheel, place the door on the oleo so as to match up with the inner door and mark the retract hinge point on the door. now you cut the door on this mark and mount it on the oleo ( I drill and tap two small - 2mm - cap screws into the oleo for this purpose). You can then use the piece of door that you've cut off to stick over the exposed retract mount so that when the door is closed, it will appear all covered by the door, but when open will stay behind on the 'wing'. Regarding the two small cap screws - I normally use one of them as a shear bolt too. Simply position it so that it goes through the trunnion into the oleo leg. That way you also ensure that the wheel will track straight without having to tighten up the trunnion pinch bolt too much. Hope this all helps.
Sharing your experience will be great.
Thank you
Springbok Flyer
Nice fleet of Jets.
I am in the assembly process on my SM F5E and will track your flying experience with a keen eye. Please can you confirm that all the throws and C of G position was as per the SM instructions.
Three more questions; did you take of with any flaps, and did you set up the F5E with a positive angle of attack when standing on the ground? I ask these as it would seem from other comments by guys flying these jets that it helps to lengthen the nose strut or mount the nose gear a bit lower. Also it seem that the take off run is shorter and with less speed when you use some flap for take off - hence not throwing the tires. What is your total dry weight?
Regarding the doors, it seems to me the best will be to attach them to the oleos, ala BVM style. If the retract hinges in line with the door cut out, then hinge the door on the wing and use a piano wire with two BVM style gear door strut swivel points The trick is to measure the distance from door to strut when wheels are retracted, then make piano wire that length and position BVM swivel points that far apart when door closed and wheels retracted. This way the piano wire will hold door open and away from the strut when the wheels are down. If the the hinge point of the door and oleo are different. First try the above method, some time you can make it work. However, if like on the Hawk, you will have to go to plan B. Then simply retract the wheel, place the door on the oleo so as to match up with the inner door and mark the retract hinge point on the door. now you cut the door on this mark and mount it on the oleo ( I drill and tap two small - 2mm - cap screws into the oleo for this purpose). You can then use the piece of door that you've cut off to stick over the exposed retract mount so that when the door is closed, it will appear all covered by the door, but when open will stay behind on the 'wing'. Regarding the two small cap screws - I normally use one of them as a shear bolt too. Simply position it so that it goes through the trunnion into the oleo leg. That way you also ensure that the wheel will track straight without having to tighten up the trunnion pinch bolt too much. Hope this all helps.
Sharing your experience will be great.
Thank you
Springbok Flyer
09-03-2006, 11:04 PM
#6
RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Hi Guys, the F-5 is a great flying jet, very fast but it also lands very smooth. The one down here that belongs to a customer is setup as Skymaster instructions and has no problems when rotating. You need to have some flaps applied so it will rotate more smoothly. The nose strut was not enlarged in any way.
For the doors I recommed having a strong air system and cylinders. If you are not using a bypass the turbine will make it dificult for the cylinders to open the doors after takeoff and at full power. Remember the F-5 gear doors are closed when the gear is open. The one here has two cilinders per door.
Here is a small video of the F-5 in action at our field...
http://www.jetsrc.com/videos/F-5_jetsRC.wmv
Michel
For the doors I recommed having a strong air system and cylinders. If you are not using a bypass the turbine will make it dificult for the cylinders to open the doors after takeoff and at full power. Remember the F-5 gear doors are closed when the gear is open. The one here has two cilinders per door.
Here is a small video of the F-5 in action at our field...
http://www.jetsrc.com/videos/F-5_jetsRC.wmv
Michel
09-03-2006, 11:36 PM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Springbok Flyer
I set up my aircraft per the S/M instructions and I never apply flaps on takeoff until they are tested in flight at altitude. My nose strut has not been modified in any way and she weights in at 27 pounds dry. Now the doors are a real test of patience (only the main gear outer doors, the rest are a piece of cake) as there is no space when the gear is retracted but there has to be room for it to clear the wheel/tire assembly when open. I have the doors installed with Hayes pin style hinges but now I need to work out a way of securing it to the strut that will allow proper distance when open but sucked up close to the strut when the gear is tucked away. Nothing is impossible but it can be a challenge.
I set up my aircraft per the S/M instructions and I never apply flaps on takeoff until they are tested in flight at altitude. My nose strut has not been modified in any way and she weights in at 27 pounds dry. Now the doors are a real test of patience (only the main gear outer doors, the rest are a piece of cake) as there is no space when the gear is retracted but there has to be room for it to clear the wheel/tire assembly when open. I have the doors installed with Hayes pin style hinges but now I need to work out a way of securing it to the strut that will allow proper distance when open but sucked up close to the strut when the gear is tucked away. Nothing is impossible but it can be a challenge.
09-04-2006, 12:10 AM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Hey Will,
CONGRATS on popping the F-5s cherry
Nice job, and i'll see you guys tomarrow (Mon.) at the lakebed..........
Hey Darcy,
Bi&%#in Supabug dude, Where'd you score that one [8D].................
CONGRATS on popping the F-5s cherry
Nice job, and i'll see you guys tomarrow (Mon.) at the lakebed..........Hey Darcy,
Bi&%#in Supabug dude, Where'd you score that one [8D].................
09-04-2006, 12:40 AM
#10
RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
ORIGINAL: foster4u
Michel
I see in your video that you did not use the outer gear doors, why?
Michel
I see in your video that you did not use the outer gear doors, why?
Michel
09-04-2006, 04:55 AM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Hi guys
Michel, the F5 in the video looked good on take off, not using flaps either. Did you try the airbrakes in flight? Are the ones on the sides operational. For the outer doors to be fitted with air operation must be an enormous challenge. I would prefer to use the oleo leg to open and close the outer doors.
William, I suggest you retract the wheel, colse the door and make a mark on the oleo wher the bottom of the door is. Then put the wheel down and do the same again. I'm sure the bottom edge of the door would have moved in relation to the first mark. This distance between the marks is the length of the piano wire strut I refered to in my previous post. All you now have to do is to position the two BVM style pivots. With this system the door is able to close virtually flat on the oleo (except for the thickness of the pivot. I sometimes make myself pivot points fron 1/32 brass tubing and strap it to the oleo with thin copper wire. when in position I solder the wire onto the tubing and glu the whole thing to the oleo leg. The door pivot is easy to affix. Give it a try. When I've eventually gotten to do mine I will let you know what works, unless somebody else has found the magic in the meantime.
Thanks for the confirmation of your settings. If you change them during the fine tuning stages of flying, please drop me an email. I must admit 27lbs is less than I expected. Are you carrying any smoke system or extra tanks, ie. hopper or UAT? Did you heat proof the inside and or added a ceramic blanket around the pipe? Are you running a bypass duct? When you add the outer doors the weight will also go up a bit.
Cheers for now
Springbok Flyer
Michel, the F5 in the video looked good on take off, not using flaps either. Did you try the airbrakes in flight? Are the ones on the sides operational. For the outer doors to be fitted with air operation must be an enormous challenge. I would prefer to use the oleo leg to open and close the outer doors.
William, I suggest you retract the wheel, colse the door and make a mark on the oleo wher the bottom of the door is. Then put the wheel down and do the same again. I'm sure the bottom edge of the door would have moved in relation to the first mark. This distance between the marks is the length of the piano wire strut I refered to in my previous post. All you now have to do is to position the two BVM style pivots. With this system the door is able to close virtually flat on the oleo (except for the thickness of the pivot. I sometimes make myself pivot points fron 1/32 brass tubing and strap it to the oleo with thin copper wire. when in position I solder the wire onto the tubing and glu the whole thing to the oleo leg. The door pivot is easy to affix. Give it a try. When I've eventually gotten to do mine I will let you know what works, unless somebody else has found the magic in the meantime.
Thanks for the confirmation of your settings. If you change them during the fine tuning stages of flying, please drop me an email. I must admit 27lbs is less than I expected. Are you carrying any smoke system or extra tanks, ie. hopper or UAT? Did you heat proof the inside and or added a ceramic blanket around the pipe? Are you running a bypass duct? When you add the outer doors the weight will also go up a bit.
Cheers for now
Springbok Flyer
09-04-2006, 08:18 AM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Springbok Flyer
I plan to work on the doors later this week, today I am taking her out for more flying. I always use a UAT as I can't see a good reason to risk sucking air in the turbine but I do not use heat proof, ceramic blanket around the pipe and I am not running a bypass duct. The airflow around the pipe keeps the airframe nice and cool so the added weight was not necessary.
I plan to work on the doors later this week, today I am taking her out for more flying. I always use a UAT as I can't see a good reason to risk sucking air in the turbine but I do not use heat proof, ceramic blanket around the pipe and I am not running a bypass duct. The airflow around the pipe keeps the airframe nice and cool so the added weight was not necessary.
09-04-2006, 09:23 AM
#13
RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
ORIGINAL: Springbok Flyer
Hi guys
Michel, the F5 in the video looked good on take off, not using flaps either. Did you try the airbrakes in flight? Are the ones on the sides operational. For the outer doors to be fitted with air operation must be an enormous challenge. I would prefer to use the oleo leg to open and close the outer doors.
Hi guys
Michel, the F5 in the video looked good on take off, not using flaps either. Did you try the airbrakes in flight? Are the ones on the sides operational. For the outer doors to be fitted with air operation must be an enormous challenge. I would prefer to use the oleo leg to open and close the outer doors.
Michel
09-04-2006, 04:11 PM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Hey Will,
Sorry about blowing you guys off today (mon.) at the Lakebed, i got sidetracked with a new plane i traded for my Superhornet. I should be able to make it next wknd. ..... Can't wait to see the F-5 fly, bet it flys as awesome as it looks [sm=thumbup.gif]
Sorry about blowing you guys off today (mon.) at the Lakebed, i got sidetracked with a new plane i traded for my Superhornet. I should be able to make it next wknd. ..... Can't wait to see the F-5 fly, bet it flys as awesome as it looks [sm=thumbup.gif]
09-04-2006, 07:46 PM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Michel
OK, now it make sense to me. I suppose the only way to prevent the inner doors from closing before the wheels/outer doors are in/closed will be to delay the inner doors even longer (as you suggested in your initial post). For the same reason we've got an 8 second delay on a F18E.
By the way, any news on the neutral position for the F18F stab yet?
Cheers
Springbok Flyer
OK, now it make sense to me. I suppose the only way to prevent the inner doors from closing before the wheels/outer doors are in/closed will be to delay the inner doors even longer (as you suggested in your initial post). For the same reason we've got an 8 second delay on a F18E.
By the way, any news on the neutral position for the F18F stab yet?
Cheers
Springbok Flyer
09-04-2006, 10:07 PM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Well two more flights on the F5 and one more on the F18E and all I can say is what A fine day it was I tried a half flap takeoff on the F5 but it really did not like it, it stuck to the ground like glue but the second flight was without flaps and it was nice and smooth. The F18 did like the half flap takeoff and the rotation was very smooth. The only problem I had today was keeping the tires on the rims!! Both aircraft lost a main tire today, one was glued on with goop and the other was attached with gorilla glue but neither held up. no worries as neither plane had trouble landing on the rim and the rollouts were totally uneventful.
I tried a half flap takeoff on the F5 but it really did not like it, it stuck to the ground like glue but the second flight was without flaps and it was nice and smooth. The F18 did like the half flap takeoff and the rotation was very smooth. The only problem I had today was keeping the tires on the rims!! Both aircraft lost a main tire today, one was glued on with goop and the other was attached with gorilla glue but neither held up. no worries as neither plane had trouble landing on the rim and the rollouts were totally uneventful.
09-04-2006, 11:16 PM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
Will,
Unless you also like prop planes, you don't want to know and should stop reading right here [8D]
On the other hand, if you do also like prop planes, i straight traded the Super Bug for a Composite ARF 2.6 meter Extra 330S. Fully loaded with the best of everything from DA, JR, Smart-Fly, Fromeco, etc. etc, long list and the wrong forum.. Everything is brand new. Most of the real work has been completed and done to top standards, but theirs still a fair bit of work left to do. Funny though, when we added up what was in each model, it was really close, so i delivered the Hornet to make the deal balance. Worked out perfectly for both of us
Unless you also like prop planes, you don't want to know and should stop reading right here [8D]
On the other hand, if you do also like prop planes, i straight traded the Super Bug for a Composite ARF 2.6 meter Extra 330S. Fully loaded with the best of everything from DA, JR, Smart-Fly, Fromeco, etc. etc, long list and the wrong forum.. Everything is brand new. Most of the real work has been completed and done to top standards, but theirs still a fair bit of work left to do. Funny though, when we added up what was in each model, it was really close, so i delivered the Hornet to make the deal balance. Worked out perfectly for both of us
09-05-2006, 01:49 AM
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RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
William
Very strange that the F5 did not like the flap on take off. It simply is not the nature of lift to be negative.
However. I have been meaning to ask about the F18E in the photo. Will email you on that.
Any changes to the original settings on the F5?
Cheers
Springbok Flyer
Very strange that the F5 did not like the flap on take off. It simply is not the nature of lift to be negative.
However. I have been meaning to ask about the F18E in the photo. Will email you on that.
Any changes to the original settings on the F5?
Cheers
Springbok Flyer
09-05-2006, 10:16 AM
#22
RE: Another Skymaster in the fleet
ORIGINAL: Springbok Flyer
Michel
OK, now it make sense to me. I suppose the only way to prevent the inner doors from closing before the wheels/outer doors are in/closed will be to delay the inner doors even longer (as you suggested in your initial post). For the same reason we've got an 8 second delay on a F18E.
By the way, any news on the neutral position for the F18F stab yet?
Cheers
Springbok Flyer
Michel
OK, now it make sense to me. I suppose the only way to prevent the inner doors from closing before the wheels/outer doors are in/closed will be to delay the inner doors even longer (as you suggested in your initial post). For the same reason we've got an 8 second delay on a F18E.
By the way, any news on the neutral position for the F18F stab yet?
Cheers
Springbok Flyer
Michel
