RC_MAN

My Feedback: (11)

As I see it there are Japanese model engines all over the modleing industry, (OS, YS, Saito, etc) but no turbines? I wonder why not. I know all about the Sophia stuff. I would think with this market expanding they would be jumping in with both feet.
What gives?

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Thundertiger has had one based on the old JPX technology. They were showing it again at the WRAM show in NY. Flyers were dated 1998 or 99. HEAVY! Who Knows?

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Dunno why OS has not done one. Maybe liability issues?
I saw Thunder Tiger's gem at the WRAM show, too. That thing was embarassing, they should have put it under the table!
I like TT, they make some nice engines, but that was like Chevy bringing out a 76 Vega to the 2002 Auto Show!

LTV_A7D

My Feedback: (2)

I didn't know Thundertigers were a Japanese product. Thought they were from Italy. My mistake. As for "diving" into the turbine market, that must be a dive into very shallow water. Why would anyone in their right mind want to take this kind of risk? The only thing that will blow the turbine market wide open is when someone produces an entire unit, electric start and all, for 500 bucks. I wonder what the actual cost is to produce a model jet turbine in the first place?

PS I remember when it was insanely expensive to build a computer. I can't imagine that with today's technology, that a company doesn't have the capability to build a low cost model turbine engine. The fact is, it's going to take a large company who's willing to lose money in the beginning to mass produce turbines for the average modeler. Right now the 'average' ducted fan modeler spends $300 (OS91) $150 (Fan) $150 (Pipe) and another $100 for remote needle etc... When the day does arrive, that one can choose between piston and turbine, which will the masses select? I say it's more about marketing and a start-up comapny who has the cash than it is about tooling. -Steve

cairoman

Thunder Tiger is Chinese (Taiwan), not Japanese. You are referring to Super Tigre, which used to be Italian (not anymore). They are now manufactured in Taiwan (started again this month), just like Thunder Tigers.

The only Japanese turbine is the Sophia J450S and J850. I believe, Mr Hoya (the owner of Sophia) still makes the J850 on special order, but you won't get the service of the current turbine producers.

BRG
Chris

Terry Holston

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, they all look alike to me. Ha ha

Jai Young Shim

My Feedback: (2)

Hi, I am a modeller in South Korea, quite near to Japan and using almost their glow engines in here. I guess the reason why they do not make Turbine engine is because ther is no sufficient market in their domestic market due to the lack of space to enjoy the turbine engine plane with speed and longer runway.

Secondly, now Japanese economy is generally speaking in the deep recession which will last longer than anticipated and this recession is blocking investment for new products which need to wait long terms than series of glow engine developement.

But when they make the turbine engine, I am pretty sure they will make nice masterpiece in view of the quality of their glow engines. Have you ever thought why they do not make big gasoline engines, except one or two rather medium size? It's purely because of their limited space, I guess!

Just my thought hehe.

Jai Young Shim

Pegasus

LTV_A7D
As a active homebuilder, I can tell you the cost of building a turbine is more expensive than you may think, in the US the cost to make a turbine is roughly 3 times more what you would like to see them being sold for, it just cannot be done, then there is all the tooling that needs to be paid for
and for the small amount of sales that are done you cannot make runs of a few thousand at a time like you can with piston motors.
The price you pay for a turbine is a great deal.
Funny thing is when I see these jet kits being sold for 6 7 8 thousand, theres where the profit is. Yeah you have to take the time to make the molds tooling etc, after that the cost is no where near what it is to make a engine and they are being sold for much more, thats where I see a problem.

Chris Z

My Feedback: (24)

"Dunno why OS has not done one. Maybe liability issues?
I saw Thunder Tiger's gem at the WRAM show, too. That thing was embarassing, they should have put it under the table!
I like TT, they make some nice engines, but that was like Chevy bringing out a 76 Vega to the 2002 Auto Show!"


Well put! The Thundertiger turbine was exciting to think about in 1996, but a 4 lb turbine that puts out 9 lbs of thrust,consumes 30 oz per minute, and takes three people to start it, well those days are over. Remember JPX, I was there in 95' at Jets over Deland watching a crew of guys trying to start their engine , and then get a 3 minute flight.
I'm glad I waited!

wsmalley

My Feedback: (6)

Wonder what percentage of modellers actually own a turbine. I've belonged to two clubs in the last two years and of about 150 combined members, only one had a turbine-not mounted! I have most of two Schrecklings- one I built, one purchase- neither works. Bought a compressor wheel and turbine wheel for a Phoenix brand new for $170 from a diesel/electric parts place. These are the most expensive pieces so where is the other $900-1200 in cost? I'm no machinist, but it seems to me a CNC setup could crank out the pieces a little. If you built a 4S engine to sell several , you'd probably have to get a thou$ to make a profit. Wondered why the Russians haven't built one. I think 6-700 would be reasonable for an engine, electronics extra. The original Schreckling only used a speed controller, a lot of the ECU stuff is gee whiz!

Pegasus

Turbine wheel & compressor 150
Bearings 150
Presision ground heat treated shaft 100
rear guide vane 100
electronics 150 -200


now you need to make the
bearing tunnel
combustion chamber/ vapouriser tubes
diffuser
front bell mouth
exaust cone
fuel/ oil maifold
left hand nuts for the comprseeor and turbine
these are all custom made parts, nothing off the shelf
balancing
tooling fixtures
overhead


you have the up front costs of maybe 25 k for guide vane and turbine molds, 15k for a balancer, machining time, and material costs then fittings tubing etc etc etc

And wat ever else I missed.
theres not a great profit on these engines

wsmalley

My Feedback: (6)

I grant you Pegasus if you decided to manufacture turbines and went out and purchased all equipment necessary, it cost what you suggest. The Wren is selling for $1000+ , minus electronics. Your figures added up to 700, if memory serves me. The NGV,s now are usually cast with some machining. Why would it cost more to cast an NGV than a turbo maker can cast, balance and sell a turbine wheel for? It would seem they sell more auto turbo charger parts than RC turbines. I built a perfectly good gas engine from a weed wacker- but price an RC gas engine. I paid $70 for the weed wacker and spent a couple hours making the prop adapter. Isn't precision grinding and heat treating pretty much a standard machining process.

Pegasus

The guide vanes for RC motors are totaly different than that of automotive turbo chargers, we are using axial flow where theres are centrifugal flow. Then they are making thousands at a time that equals big price breaks.
Your engine also is made by the thousands, for the RC turbines it is impossible to get those kind of prices at the small quantity ordered.
I looked into the whole deal, considering putting mine on the market.
It takes tons of cash up front with very slow return.
Yeah if it were done in Taiwan you would get better prices, but here in the good ol US its not going to happen.

Just trust me when I say they are a good deal, compare to the prices of jet kits

Laura H

In all cases in life, you buy cheap you get less quality than if you spend alittle more.

Here in the uk, one thing is good about turbines not being cheap you dont get all sorts with them.

Imagine:
"I can fly my wot4 now, I know ill buy a turbine."

Malcolm Kay

My Feedback: (11)

there are no japanese turbines 'cos nobody had a yen for them in japan. and obviously no one ever heard of Sophia.....................