trimaran plans
#51
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Plan No.62 is sent!
Another fellow from Brighton/Australia and a (full size) trimaran sailor from Key West/Forida joined in!
@ Bertauy
A beautiful slim trimaran you have built, but I believe you will have troubles with lack of volume overall - and especially in the bows of all three hulls. Also the bow heigth will probably be to little.
-
The "Nightmare Mk.VII" has floats with 7500cm3 volume each and a mainhull designed for 3.00 kgs ready-to-sail -
makes it at least 250% of the achieveable ready-to-sail-weight.
If you are able to build it with only 2.5kgs, the floats have 300% volume, which is even better.
The bows should be at least 120 mm high on each hull.
The mast needs to be at 500 mm from the stern - and the overall center-of-weight at 380-400 mm from the stern.
In other words - at or around 1/3 of the boatlenght of 1220 mm - due to the scaling factor (in relation to full size trimarans) and because of the fact, that you don´t have a moveable ballast = crew.
Therefore also the rc-gear (batteries, sailwinch,etc. - need to be placed as far aftward as possible!)
The exact scaling factor of this Mini40 trimaran is 1/5 - in relation to a 20ft. (6.10 m) trimaran with two crewmembers.
The sailarea of 0.9 m2 is in relation to 22.5 m2 for the "real" trimaran.
The 20 ft. trimaran could possibly be built in fibreglass/epoxy/sandwich with 200 kgs. + 175 kgs for two adult persons.
Please keep this in mind if you want to design a trimaran yourself - or just building to the plans you can get here for free.
Most of the not-so-experienced modelbuilders will not be able to build the boat below 3.00kgs.
2.5kgs is a very good (low) result.
Another fellow from Brighton/Australia and a (full size) trimaran sailor from Key West/Forida joined in!
@ Bertauy
A beautiful slim trimaran you have built, but I believe you will have troubles with lack of volume overall - and especially in the bows of all three hulls. Also the bow heigth will probably be to little.
-
The "Nightmare Mk.VII" has floats with 7500cm3 volume each and a mainhull designed for 3.00 kgs ready-to-sail -
makes it at least 250% of the achieveable ready-to-sail-weight.
If you are able to build it with only 2.5kgs, the floats have 300% volume, which is even better.
The bows should be at least 120 mm high on each hull.
The mast needs to be at 500 mm from the stern - and the overall center-of-weight at 380-400 mm from the stern.
In other words - at or around 1/3 of the boatlenght of 1220 mm - due to the scaling factor (in relation to full size trimarans) and because of the fact, that you don´t have a moveable ballast = crew.
Therefore also the rc-gear (batteries, sailwinch,etc. - need to be placed as far aftward as possible!)
The exact scaling factor of this Mini40 trimaran is 1/5 - in relation to a 20ft. (6.10 m) trimaran with two crewmembers.
The sailarea of 0.9 m2 is in relation to 22.5 m2 for the "real" trimaran.
The 20 ft. trimaran could possibly be built in fibreglass/epoxy/sandwich with 200 kgs. + 175 kgs for two adult persons.
Please keep this in mind if you want to design a trimaran yourself - or just building to the plans you can get here for free.
Most of the not-so-experienced modelbuilders will not be able to build the boat below 3.00kgs.
2.5kgs is a very good (low) result.
#52
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Announcement!
Umut Korkmaz, a young mechanical engineering manager from Istabul/Turkey - who received free planset No.57 of the "Nightmare Mk.VII" from me - has offered to redraw all the plans on Auto-CAD.
This includes all modifications we have done on the boat so far to improve the performance of this trimaran even further.
I had published all these modifications here allready, but it may be too complicated for not-so-experienced builders, to change the technical drawings themselves.
Again, Umut agreed with me to keep these plans free and NOT copyrighted - so I would like to thank Umut very much for his professional help!
It is very much appreciated!
As soon as the new planset is ready and doublechecked by me, it will be announced here.
Umut Korkmaz, a young mechanical engineering manager from Istabul/Turkey - who received free planset No.57 of the "Nightmare Mk.VII" from me - has offered to redraw all the plans on Auto-CAD.
This includes all modifications we have done on the boat so far to improve the performance of this trimaran even further.
I had published all these modifications here allready, but it may be too complicated for not-so-experienced builders, to change the technical drawings themselves.
Again, Umut agreed with me to keep these plans free and NOT copyrighted - so I would like to thank Umut very much for his professional help!
It is very much appreciated!
As soon as the new planset is ready and doublechecked by me, it will be announced here.
#53
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Hi everybody,
I just became a member of this wonderful forum.
As Idealist stated, we are working on the plans to make them more userfriendly. The plans are almost ready, we can issue them soon. Moreover, as I continue to built the bot, all modifications will be inserted to the plans and will keep the plans always actual.
Bye.
Umut
I just became a member of this wonderful forum.
As Idealist stated, we are working on the plans to make them more userfriendly. The plans are almost ready, we can issue them soon. Moreover, as I continue to built the bot, all modifications will be inserted to the plans and will keep the plans always actual.
Bye.
Umut
#54
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I am building the boat right now using the original Nightmare VII "square bottom" planset provided by Ernst. The only modifications I have made are to move the mast and centerboard aft slightly by about 20mm, move the c/l of the rear beam ahead by 15 mm, move the c/l of the forward beam aft by 15mm, slight taper on the bottoms of the rudder and fin to allow for release of weeds and using custom moulded beams instead of tubes. I am documenting the build in another forum on this site. I would like to get a set of the new plans when you are done so I can compare the two.
TBK
TBK
#56
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Catamaran versus Trimaran
The following email reached me today and I thought it - and my answer- may be interesting for all of you.
So here it is:
18 feb 09
hi ernst
i did some search 6 months ago regarding rc sailing catamarans and really
got nowhere. even the posts on the sailing trimarans were mostly negative,
so i lost interest
i happen to come accross this thread whilst viewing some boat model sites
today and am most impressed by your attitude
although building a rc sailing catamaran is my interest, maybe starting
with a trimaran will give me insight into the challenges
so please e-mail me a set of your plans
thanking you
andre
ps.
i stay near a wetland lake and the sea, prevailing wind is onshore, 10 to
15kts on average, but also gail-force frequently
Dear Andre,
no problem to send you the plans.
You got sailnumber 63.
Good luck for the building!
As for Catamarans versus Trimarans:
You could definitely use the floats of the Mk.VII Tri - as they are provided in these plans for your Cat.
Explaination:
The biggest problem for modelbuilders is the scaling factor -
as you cannot just scale down a fullsized Cat and hope it will work
properly! - Much more forward volume is needed, so the tri-floats will work fine.
Don´t build the boat wider overall than 800 mm and make a centerpod to install only ONE Rudder and ONE Centerboard.
Definitely NO radiogear in the hulls - mast at 500 mm from the stern and the centerboard right behind it.
You can also use the provided swingrigg as it is!
Otherwise the boat would bury its bows and you won´t be able to tack.
2.00 kgs. will be a realistic ready-to-sail-weight.
May I ask you where you are from?
Netherlands?
Kind regards,
Ernst Zemann
I received another email from Andre the next day - he is from Cape Town/South Africa! - Good luck for the building, Andre!
The following email reached me today and I thought it - and my answer- may be interesting for all of you.
So here it is:
18 feb 09
hi ernst
i did some search 6 months ago regarding rc sailing catamarans and really
got nowhere. even the posts on the sailing trimarans were mostly negative,
so i lost interest
i happen to come accross this thread whilst viewing some boat model sites
today and am most impressed by your attitude
although building a rc sailing catamaran is my interest, maybe starting
with a trimaran will give me insight into the challenges
so please e-mail me a set of your plans
thanking you
andre
ps.
i stay near a wetland lake and the sea, prevailing wind is onshore, 10 to
15kts on average, but also gail-force frequently
Dear Andre,
no problem to send you the plans.
You got sailnumber 63.
Good luck for the building!
As for Catamarans versus Trimarans:
You could definitely use the floats of the Mk.VII Tri - as they are provided in these plans for your Cat.
Explaination:
The biggest problem for modelbuilders is the scaling factor -
as you cannot just scale down a fullsized Cat and hope it will work
properly! - Much more forward volume is needed, so the tri-floats will work fine.
Don´t build the boat wider overall than 800 mm and make a centerpod to install only ONE Rudder and ONE Centerboard.
Definitely NO radiogear in the hulls - mast at 500 mm from the stern and the centerboard right behind it.
You can also use the provided swingrigg as it is!
Otherwise the boat would bury its bows and you won´t be able to tack.
2.00 kgs. will be a realistic ready-to-sail-weight.
May I ask you where you are from?
Netherlands?
Kind regards,
Ernst Zemann
I received another email from Andre the next day - he is from Cape Town/South Africa! - Good luck for the building, Andre!
#57
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Update from the "Design-Front":
1. pic shows the "B&Q" from Ellen McArthur - just as an idea for a possible paintjob.
2. pic shows my original scetch of the curved crossbars done some years ago.
3. pic shows the ideal crossbar configuration - done by Umut Korkmaz to my specifications - as I will build it now.
Please note the floats are 20 mm above CWL at rest - this makes tacking easier.
4. pic shows the 2007 boat of Karl Schmidt/Austria sailnumber AUT 07 which is for private sale now.
Here is the direct link:http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=129307
1. pic shows the "B&Q" from Ellen McArthur - just as an idea for a possible paintjob.
2. pic shows my original scetch of the curved crossbars done some years ago.
3. pic shows the ideal crossbar configuration - done by Umut Korkmaz to my specifications - as I will build it now.
Please note the floats are 20 mm above CWL at rest - this makes tacking easier.
4. pic shows the 2007 boat of Karl Schmidt/Austria sailnumber AUT 07 which is for private sale now.
Here is the direct link:http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=129307
#60
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"Nightmare Mk.VII" - riggs ABCD!
The project to make the free selfbuildingplans more userfriendly is completed!
All modifications to improve the performance and the repositioning of major parts have been included.
Very well done, Umut (Poyraz)!
The project to make the free selfbuildingplans more userfriendly is completed!
All modifications to improve the performance and the repositioning of major parts have been included.
Very well done, Umut (Poyraz)!
#61
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Thanks Ersnt
As you can see from my build of your design I have incorporated some of the changes but not all compared to the newest version. I have shifted the mast and fin back about 40 mm versus the 100 mm. I have also moved the c/l of the front beam back about 20mm. The main hull feels very balanced now on this position and it should track and turn very well.
TBK
As you can see from my build of your design I have incorporated some of the changes but not all compared to the newest version. I have shifted the mast and fin back about 40 mm versus the 100 mm. I have also moved the c/l of the front beam back about 20mm. The main hull feels very balanced now on this position and it should track and turn very well.
TBK
#62
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Just a quick note to prospects of the free selfbuildingplans:
For some reason it is technically impossible for me to send a direct answer WITH planattachments,
if you send a PM to me!
If you want the plans, you need to send a direct email to:
[email protected]
including your own emailadress - or I´m unable to send the plans back to you!
Furthermore, I hadn´t saved the first 25-30 emailadresses of planprospects on my PC -
so if these persons want me to send all technical updates to them, they need to re-contact me.
Sorry for this inconvenience! -
Hopefully all other interested persons have received all updates?!
We are at 65 plans sent out by now.
For some reason it is technically impossible for me to send a direct answer WITH planattachments,
if you send a PM to me!
If you want the plans, you need to send a direct email to:
[email protected]
including your own emailadress - or I´m unable to send the plans back to you!
Furthermore, I hadn´t saved the first 25-30 emailadresses of planprospects on my PC -
so if these persons want me to send all technical updates to them, they need to re-contact me.
Sorry for this inconvenience! -
Hopefully all other interested persons have received all updates?!
We are at 65 plans sent out by now.
#64
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"4. pic shows the 2007 boat of Karl Schmidt/Austria sailnumber AUT 07 which is for private sale now.
Here is the direct link:http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=129307"
Thats a very nice looking boat. I understand how to make the hulls but how do you make the nice curved hull attachment beams?
Here is the direct link:http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=129307"
Thats a very nice looking boat. I understand how to make the hulls but how do you make the nice curved hull attachment beams?
#65
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@ GRANT ED
Oh - that´s simple!
He uses a twoparted female mould, two to three layers 160gr. glass, a styrodur-piece in the middle as a spreader - and some epoxyfiller to bond the halves together. that´s all.
Oh - that´s simple!
He uses a twoparted female mould, two to three layers 160gr. glass, a styrodur-piece in the middle as a spreader - and some epoxyfiller to bond the halves together. that´s all.
#66
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I will be making similar crossbeams for my two tri's and I will document this in the Nightmare build log in this forum. I'll probably get started on these pieces in a week or so.
TBK
TBK
#67
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Ernst,
I sent you an e-mail requesting plans. I forgot to mention I am Arcade, NY, near Buffalo and Niagara Falls.
In case the e-mail dies, please send plans to [email protected]
Thanks.
-Rich
I sent you an e-mail requesting plans. I forgot to mention I am Arcade, NY, near Buffalo and Niagara Falls.
In case the e-mail dies, please send plans to [email protected]
Thanks.
-Rich
#68
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Planset No.73 has been sent to Sydney/Australia to a professional boatbuilder.
27 more plans to reach a full 100!
Helloooooooh! - Is there anybody out there?
27 more plans to reach a full 100!
Helloooooooh! - Is there anybody out there?
#69
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Good to see this still going. I am following along with all the builds and doing alot of research. I hope to start construction of my Tri in the beginning of May.
I have done alot of research on wing masts and even full wing sails for power. Anybody have expereince with either> As the Tri's can get going very fast, wing sails and wing masts can further increase the power and speed with higher L/D ratios. I am currently looking at low Re airfoils and flap geometry to see if any of this is possible. A high aspect ratio wing sail with a carbon spar and balsa/carbon ribs covered in iron on film would be quite light and would require less force to actuate than a conventional sail. 1 or 2 flaps at X% of the chord along with control over the rotation would serve to trim the sail.
The biggest problem I can see is airfoil deisgn. A section is needed that will operate well at low Re's and capable of a high angle of attack all while maintaining a high L/D ratio.
Hopefully if I don't have much school work this week I can begin a design for a drop in replacement wing sail for the Tri that Idealist has provided.
Another idea I was thinking about was a T-foil in the rear. I have seen this on model Tri's to prevent the bow from going under. All examples I have seen, however, are fixed foils to provide a downforce.. you can't control the amount of downforce. My idea was to have a foil with variable angle of attack (fully flying) actuated by a small servo.
So for example, if you are running with the wind, you would pull back on the pitch control (elevator for aircraft). This would actuate the foil and provide more downforce by reducing the angle of attack. An active foil, similiar to how some hydrofoils maintain pitch stability.
[link=http://www.mathran.nl/acat/files/42371410.jpg]Wing sail picture[/link]
I have done alot of research on wing masts and even full wing sails for power. Anybody have expereince with either> As the Tri's can get going very fast, wing sails and wing masts can further increase the power and speed with higher L/D ratios. I am currently looking at low Re airfoils and flap geometry to see if any of this is possible. A high aspect ratio wing sail with a carbon spar and balsa/carbon ribs covered in iron on film would be quite light and would require less force to actuate than a conventional sail. 1 or 2 flaps at X% of the chord along with control over the rotation would serve to trim the sail.
The biggest problem I can see is airfoil deisgn. A section is needed that will operate well at low Re's and capable of a high angle of attack all while maintaining a high L/D ratio.
Hopefully if I don't have much school work this week I can begin a design for a drop in replacement wing sail for the Tri that Idealist has provided.
Another idea I was thinking about was a T-foil in the rear. I have seen this on model Tri's to prevent the bow from going under. All examples I have seen, however, are fixed foils to provide a downforce.. you can't control the amount of downforce. My idea was to have a foil with variable angle of attack (fully flying) actuated by a small servo.
So for example, if you are running with the wind, you would pull back on the pitch control (elevator for aircraft). This would actuate the foil and provide more downforce by reducing the angle of attack. An active foil, similiar to how some hydrofoils maintain pitch stability.
[link=http://www.mathran.nl/acat/files/42371410.jpg]Wing sail picture[/link]
#70
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Check out this site and the previous ones: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...=68267&page=42
Just as an idea:
Just as an idea:
#71
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I purchased the original "nightmare" tooling years ago. The original tooling is carbon male plugs. I built female molds for the alas but not the main hull. These tools are very tired as I built quite a few boats from them. If someone is willing to do some sanding and filling they could be used a couple more times. I've got them packaged up and ready to ship. I'd part with them for $350.
Ian
Ian
#72
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ORIGINAL: Idealist
@ GRANT ED
Oh - that´s simple!
He uses a twoparted female mould, two to three layers 160gr. glass, a styrodur-piece in the middle as a spreader - and some epoxyfiller to bond the halves together. that´s all.
@ GRANT ED
Oh - that´s simple!
He uses a twoparted female mould, two to three layers 160gr. glass, a styrodur-piece in the middle as a spreader - and some epoxyfiller to bond the halves together. that´s all.
#73
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If you go to the Nightmare build log in this forum you can see pictures of the building process as I work my way through it. I am building two boats one in s-glass and the other out of carbon fiber. The cf boat will be built to be as light as possible. Both boats will be fabricated from the same male plugs, that were fabricated using the plans from Ernst. As you can see in the log the male plugs where build using 1/8" balsa over frames and then glassed and primed.
TBK
TBK
#74
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@Grant ED
I have spent all afternoon to search the huge archives of: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=166
to find these pics again:
The whole build is described here:
http://www.rc-network.de/magazin/art...rt_127-01.html
I hope, you will build your trimaran now.
I have spent all afternoon to search the huge archives of: http://www.rc-network.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=166
to find these pics again:
The whole build is described here:
http://www.rc-network.de/magazin/art...rt_127-01.html
I hope, you will build your trimaran now.
#75
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Idealist,
What is your opinion on a foiler Tri, with smaller outriggers? I have looked at a number of threads over at the German website using a translator and I am very intrigued by the use of foils. Is there a current design type that dominates? I have seen both the angled foils on outriggers and the conventional T foil with height sensing pitch control via an elevator/flap. I am still looking into this, both on the German forum and some basic calculations.
What is your opinion on a foiler Tri, with smaller outriggers? I have looked at a number of threads over at the German website using a translator and I am very intrigued by the use of foils. Is there a current design type that dominates? I have seen both the angled foils on outriggers and the conventional T foil with height sensing pitch control via an elevator/flap. I am still looking into this, both on the German forum and some basic calculations.