Real FPV - Drive by Video
03-27-2012, 04:44 PM
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Real FPV - Drive by Video
I've previously posted some on-board video, but it was video captured and stored in the camera on the tank, and then later viewed on the computer. Now I'm talking about the real deal - video from the tank transmitted to a ground station that is viewed to control the tank. This is what is usually meant by the term "FPV." In this case I'm using a 5.8 GHz video transmitter/receiver. I think this video transmission frequency is is generally considered the best way to go if you are using a 2.4 GHz main controller.
Also to be more realistic in terms of what information a real tank commander would have, I have used a remotely controlled pan/tilt system for the camera. In terms of battlefield awareness, you really need a wide area view that can turn at a rate similar to turning your head. Fixing the view to the front of the tank or even the turret would be very limiting. Imagine if a tank commander could turn his view only at the rate the turret turns - his tank we be blown away before he could see the threat. So anyway, I do think that a pan/tilt camera is an important part of real FPV on a tank.
I decided to mount the camera to the floor of one of the hatches so that the camera position would be similar to a tank commander's view, and also so that there would be no external screw holes on the outside of the tank should you decide to remove the FPV system. I don't know which of the two hatches was the commanders hatch, but I used the floor of the smaller one for my gun servo mount, so I thought I should use the larger one for the camera. Also the transmitter is attached to the turret with dual-lock tape which can be removed completely if desired.
The camera mount has three parts -
1) the platform on a pedestal that goes down to the floor of the hatch and attaches with three tapped screws. I made this with angle and sheet aluminum.
2) the pan/tilt mechanism itself comes as a kit to which you add your own two micro servos. I've used two types of pan/tilt kits before, one from Hobby King (about $5) and one from ebay (also from china and about $8 I think.) I used the second type for this project. For the servos I used a regular micro servo for the tilting, and a 260 degree metal gear micro servo for panning. You get about 180 degrees turning unless you turn your servo extents in the radio all the way up. The special servo is important otherwise you would only get about 90 degrees total turning range
3) an adapter to mount the camera to the pan/tilt mechanism. I built this from sheet aluminum and 1/2 inch aluminum standoffs.
The camera is just a lens and Sony CCD mounted to a circuit board, with no case. This is typical for FPV systems which are mostly used for air vehicles where weight is extremely important. On a tank, a camera with a case might be better, or at least a covering of the exposed part of the circuit board - I haven't dont this yet. I bought the camera at Hobby King for about $30 - it was midrange quality. There are cams for about $15 and also $70. When I first got the camera it didn't work, and I was so frustrated that I ordered another camera - this time a higher end one from another vendor (also in China) which was $115. The new camera isn't here yet and In the mean time I discovered a factory manufacturing flaw in the first camera that I was able to fix easily, so I'm using the first (medium quality) camera for now.
The video receiver/transmitter is also from hobby king ($60), it is a 200 mW 5.8 GHz transmitter, and is fairly low end for a 5.8 Ghz system. It is supposed to have about 100 m range, but if its even half that it would still be fine for a tank. Hobby king has up to 600 mW systems which would have greater range as with air vehicles you would probably want a km or so. I also bought a cute little gadget for about $95, it is a handheld all-in-one 5.8 GHz receiver/monitor and recorder. However, the screen is only 2.5 inches and although the picture is great, it probably isn't practical for FPV driving because its so small. Also the recorder only records at about 10 fps, which isn't terrible but not ideal.
The camera and transmitter are both 12V, so I tap the power straight off the 3S lipo main batteries. If you not running 3S batteries you can use a 12V BEC, also available at Hobby King.
Using the dedicated receiver you can use any video monitor with composite video input, or you can use a computer with a video capture device. With the computer you can record higher quality video and also watch the live video feed at full screen. With my laptop I used VLC media player (free app) to view the video feed, but there are countless options. The only downside to this setup is that you need the computer, receiver, a power supply for the receiver, and generally some kind of sun sheild for the laptop screen. Most poeple put all this hardware into a case of some sort so that its easier to pack around and setup.
If you watch the video I linked below the actual FPV footage is in the second half. There are a few glitches, mostly when the tank is moving. I don't know if there is some interference from my brushless motors/speed controllers, or its something else. The video TX/RX has a total of 8 channels, so I have 7 other channels to experiment with. Overall I think the quality is very acceptable for FPV purposes.
Thanks for reading,
Russ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubf8N1eTwIQ
Also to be more realistic in terms of what information a real tank commander would have, I have used a remotely controlled pan/tilt system for the camera. In terms of battlefield awareness, you really need a wide area view that can turn at a rate similar to turning your head. Fixing the view to the front of the tank or even the turret would be very limiting. Imagine if a tank commander could turn his view only at the rate the turret turns - his tank we be blown away before he could see the threat. So anyway, I do think that a pan/tilt camera is an important part of real FPV on a tank.
I decided to mount the camera to the floor of one of the hatches so that the camera position would be similar to a tank commander's view, and also so that there would be no external screw holes on the outside of the tank should you decide to remove the FPV system. I don't know which of the two hatches was the commanders hatch, but I used the floor of the smaller one for my gun servo mount, so I thought I should use the larger one for the camera. Also the transmitter is attached to the turret with dual-lock tape which can be removed completely if desired.
The camera mount has three parts -
1) the platform on a pedestal that goes down to the floor of the hatch and attaches with three tapped screws. I made this with angle and sheet aluminum.
2) the pan/tilt mechanism itself comes as a kit to which you add your own two micro servos. I've used two types of pan/tilt kits before, one from Hobby King (about $5) and one from ebay (also from china and about $8 I think.) I used the second type for this project. For the servos I used a regular micro servo for the tilting, and a 260 degree metal gear micro servo for panning. You get about 180 degrees turning unless you turn your servo extents in the radio all the way up. The special servo is important otherwise you would only get about 90 degrees total turning range
3) an adapter to mount the camera to the pan/tilt mechanism. I built this from sheet aluminum and 1/2 inch aluminum standoffs.
The camera is just a lens and Sony CCD mounted to a circuit board, with no case. This is typical for FPV systems which are mostly used for air vehicles where weight is extremely important. On a tank, a camera with a case might be better, or at least a covering of the exposed part of the circuit board - I haven't dont this yet. I bought the camera at Hobby King for about $30 - it was midrange quality. There are cams for about $15 and also $70. When I first got the camera it didn't work, and I was so frustrated that I ordered another camera - this time a higher end one from another vendor (also in China) which was $115. The new camera isn't here yet and In the mean time I discovered a factory manufacturing flaw in the first camera that I was able to fix easily, so I'm using the first (medium quality) camera for now.
The video receiver/transmitter is also from hobby king ($60), it is a 200 mW 5.8 GHz transmitter, and is fairly low end for a 5.8 Ghz system. It is supposed to have about 100 m range, but if its even half that it would still be fine for a tank. Hobby king has up to 600 mW systems which would have greater range as with air vehicles you would probably want a km or so. I also bought a cute little gadget for about $95, it is a handheld all-in-one 5.8 GHz receiver/monitor and recorder. However, the screen is only 2.5 inches and although the picture is great, it probably isn't practical for FPV driving because its so small. Also the recorder only records at about 10 fps, which isn't terrible but not ideal.
The camera and transmitter are both 12V, so I tap the power straight off the 3S lipo main batteries. If you not running 3S batteries you can use a 12V BEC, also available at Hobby King.
Using the dedicated receiver you can use any video monitor with composite video input, or you can use a computer with a video capture device. With the computer you can record higher quality video and also watch the live video feed at full screen. With my laptop I used VLC media player (free app) to view the video feed, but there are countless options. The only downside to this setup is that you need the computer, receiver, a power supply for the receiver, and generally some kind of sun sheild for the laptop screen. Most poeple put all this hardware into a case of some sort so that its easier to pack around and setup.
If you watch the video I linked below the actual FPV footage is in the second half. There are a few glitches, mostly when the tank is moving. I don't know if there is some interference from my brushless motors/speed controllers, or its something else. The video TX/RX has a total of 8 channels, so I have 7 other channels to experiment with. Overall I think the quality is very acceptable for FPV purposes.
Thanks for reading,
Russ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubf8N1eTwIQ
03-27-2012, 08:40 PM
#2
RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
That is awesome! Being able to pivot separate from the turret is a must in my opinion, and it looks pretty cool! I hope to have a setup like this one day, yours looks great.
03-27-2012, 09:18 PM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
I have a similar setup using FatShark FPV goggles with headtracking and a Turnigy 9x radio, so turning and tilting your head will move the camera. It is pretty awesome to get the first person view from the tank while driving. I mounted the video transmitter in the tank and used rare earth magnets for the mount in the turret so the camera can be removed when not in use. The transmitter runs off 6v so I patched into the MF unit's unused 'hot' port so the camera is powered when the tank is turned on.
03-27-2012, 09:28 PM
#4
RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Have a similar setup as well. Here's a link to my old post [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9677432/anchors_9677432/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9677432]Sherman w/ headtracker[/link]. My wireless video operates at 1.2GHz.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZEFIzZLRiA&context=C48d1807ADvjVQa1PpcFNR 3H7U0NrQtlOcasmaJ36lzmmLYV8MnuE=[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZEFIzZLRiA&context=C48d1807ADvjVQa1PpcFNR 3H7U0NrQtlOcasmaJ36lzmmLYV8MnuE=[/youtube]
03-28-2012, 05:55 AM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
@ maintcoder and thedonut - head tracking goggles is the ultimate! How's the image quality? Controlling the pan/tilt with rotatary knobs is distracting and it forces you to take your hand of the main controls, and its not possible to pan and tilt at the same time. You guys definitely have the better setup.
thedonut - very elegant install of the pan/tilt mount - makes mine look like a real hack job.Who makes that pan/tilt?Looks like the rotation servois in the turret.You must have some kind of extensionbetween therotation servo and the mount. I suppose I could have used the Hobby King mount like thisbut it is very fragile and I wanted to try to use the other mount.
Also not familiar with 1.2 GHz video transmitter - I just know of 900 mHz, 2.4 Ghz and 5.8 GHz. Is 1.2 GHz superior to 5.8 GHz?
Russ
thedonut - very elegant install of the pan/tilt mount - makes mine look like a real hack job.Who makes that pan/tilt?Looks like the rotation servois in the turret.You must have some kind of extensionbetween therotation servo and the mount. I suppose I could have used the Hobby King mount like thisbut it is very fragile and I wanted to try to use the other mount.
Also not familiar with 1.2 GHz video transmitter - I just know of 900 mHz, 2.4 Ghz and 5.8 GHz. Is 1.2 GHz superior to 5.8 GHz?
Russ
03-29-2012, 12:58 AM
#6
RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Hi Russ,
For the pan, it's actually just the mount that came with the camera connected to a servo arm. For the tilt, I used double sided tape to stick a servo at the back of the camera. To hold the entire mechanism in place on the turret, I fabricated a servo holder using PC expansion slot backplate covers and then connected everything via a DB9 connector to make the whole thing removeable.
The reason I went with 1.2GHz is to avoid problems with my 2.4GHz radio system. I also considered 900MHz but was concerned that it could be crowded due to mobile phones signals (I live in the city). I also read that the lower frequencies were better for ground applications so 1.2GHz was as low as I could go. If I remember right, I got the camera, receiver, and transmitter from hobbywireless.com.
In actual use, the video is pretty stable except for the occasional glitch. The signal is much more stable if you can locate the antenna of the receiver outside the tank.
Jake
For the pan, it's actually just the mount that came with the camera connected to a servo arm. For the tilt, I used double sided tape to stick a servo at the back of the camera. To hold the entire mechanism in place on the turret, I fabricated a servo holder using PC expansion slot backplate covers and then connected everything via a DB9 connector to make the whole thing removeable.
The reason I went with 1.2GHz is to avoid problems with my 2.4GHz radio system. I also considered 900MHz but was concerned that it could be crowded due to mobile phones signals (I live in the city). I also read that the lower frequencies were better for ground applications so 1.2GHz was as low as I could go. If I remember right, I got the camera, receiver, and transmitter from hobbywireless.com.
In actual use, the video is pretty stable except for the occasional glitch. The signal is much more stable if you can locate the antenna of the receiver outside the tank.
Jake
03-29-2012, 09:06 AM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Hi gentlemen,<div> I totally agree with the FPV conceptual idea. We had done 2 years ago with Heng Long bulldog and Jagdpanther, on those days I used 1.2GHz Transmitter and Receiver it has 15 channels Chinese product ...of course ... very pour quality.</div><div> Mean time we are going to re-do again but this time with... "2 men tank concept" which we'll have 2 cameras on one tank...(HL Jagdpanther)
<br type="_moz" /></div><div>1st cam. will be attached at the front side of the tank...this is a driver view and the driver will be me.
<br type="_moz" /></div><div>2nd cam. will be on top hull co-in line with the barrel and of course with pan -tilt mechanism ...this cam, represents both commander and gunner ...my friend will be both commander and gunner.
<br type="_moz" /></div><div> So 2 men will co -operately control this tank.
<br type="_moz" /></div><div>Note:AThe 2nd. cam, position will be the most proper position for aiming the target.</div><div> B We'll put two TXs on the back of the tank (out side of the hull)</div><div> C We'll not use that Chinese TX / RX this time.</div>
<br type="_moz" /></div><div>1st cam. will be attached at the front side of the tank...this is a driver view and the driver will be me.
<br type="_moz" /></div><div>2nd cam. will be on top hull co-in line with the barrel and of course with pan -tilt mechanism ...this cam, represents both commander and gunner ...my friend will be both commander and gunner.
<br type="_moz" /></div><div> So 2 men will co -operately control this tank.
<br type="_moz" /></div><div>Note:AThe 2nd. cam, position will be the most proper position for aiming the target.</div><div> B We'll put two TXs on the back of the tank (out side of the hull)</div><div> C We'll not use that Chinese TX / RX this time.</div>
03-29-2012, 10:26 AM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Jake - looked through your thread after I asked the questions - The DB9 thing is a stroke of genius. My tank is all metal so I didn't consider putting the TX inside, although my 2.4 GHz main RX and antenna are inside and seem to work ok.
siam - that sounds very interesting. In the US, even non-Chinese brands are made in China these days, but maybe the quality is different - I don't know. I'd be insterested to see what TX/RX you decide on.
Russ
siam - that sounds very interesting. In the US, even non-Chinese brands are made in China these days, but maybe the quality is different - I don't know. I'd be insterested to see what TX/RX you decide on.
Russ
03-30-2012, 01:21 PM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Here is a general hypothetical question about FPV. At what point does FPV become more like a video game and less like controlling an actual vehicle? I'm not badmouthing FPV, and I just spent money and effort to get it. I do think its fun. But it struck me that the ultimate FPV system would be alot like playing a first-persontank video game online with your friends.
I just got a Haier 7' TV off ebay - these seem to be popular with the FPV crowd. This would be a nice intermediate size between my laptop (11.3" I think) and the 2.5" mini receiver/monitor.
The Haier is advertised on ebay to be 720p resolution, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. It would have an HDMI connector if it were HD, and it doesn't.
Russ
I just got a Haier 7' TV off ebay - these seem to be popular with the FPV crowd. This would be a nice intermediate size between my laptop (11.3" I think) and the 2.5" mini receiver/monitor.
The Haier is advertised on ebay to be 720p resolution, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. It would have an HDMI connector if it were HD, and it doesn't.
Russ
04-10-2012, 01:29 PM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
I finally figured out why I hadn't heard of 1.2 MHz for FPV - it is illegal in the USA
Russ
Russ
ORIGINAL: thedonut
Have a similar setup as well. Here's a link to my old post [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9677432/anchors_9677432/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9677432]Sherman w/ headtracker[/link]. My wireless video operates at 1.2GHz.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZEFIzZLRiA&context=C48d1807ADvjVQa1PpcFNR 3H7U0NrQtlOcasmaJ36lzmmLYV8MnuE=[/youtube]
Have a similar setup as well. Here's a link to my old post [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9677432/anchors_9677432/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9677432]Sherman w/ headtracker[/link]. My wireless video operates at 1.2GHz.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZEFIzZLRiA&context=C48d1807ADvjVQa1PpcFNR 3H7U0NrQtlOcasmaJ36lzmmLYV8MnuE=[/youtube]
04-10-2012, 02:57 PM
#11
RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Honestly I think the first person aspect makes it less like a video game than when you have the infinite aerial view normally. You are much more restricted to what you see, and what info you peers may give. A tank can easily sneak up on you that you would have seen coming a long time before normally.
04-10-2012, 06:15 PM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Hello gentlemen,
Meantime we are planning to set up FPV Tank Battle here in Thailand and it's just for fun. Here we also have some RC. web boards as rcuniverse.com and also there is FPV forum in that ...so I have invited FPV guys visting our rc.tank battle field and cooperately making our dream come true together.
ps. We are still playing the ATPV (Aerial Third Person View)rc. tank battle in our field coz most of our friends are familiar with it.
So we will have both ATPV, FPV battles in our field.</p>
04-16-2012, 08:14 PM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
FPV for tanks...bah. Boring.
FPV for planes...now there's an idea! FPV bomber = even better. One of my dreams I hope to realize after I get my RC tanks, Carnivorous Plants, and workspace in order ;-)
FPV for planes...now there's an idea! FPV bomber = even better. One of my dreams I hope to realize after I get my RC tanks, Carnivorous Plants, and workspace in order ;-)
04-17-2012, 03:22 AM
#14
RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
That's exactly what I want to do, I've been looking into systems and the pan/tilt is the way to go. Nice work.
I love the idea of battling that way. Makes camo, etc a big part of the equation.
I love the idea of battling that way. Makes camo, etc a big part of the equation.
04-17-2012, 03:44 AM
#15
RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Ive always thought that using FPV for Rc battling would make the whole experience so much more intresting. The tactics employed would be much more diverse, you can effectively ambush, over watch etc as was pointed out camo comes into the equation, it would be like wwiioline but real!
04-17-2012, 03:54 AM
#16
RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
My thoughts exactly. Driving through the woods or village mockup via FPV, knowing that there's another (or more) out there trying to get you would be outstanding.
With sound would be even greater. Even after a shootout started, anticipation, aim, maneuvering, etc would be a whole new ballgame from the commanders perspective.
With sound would be even greater. Even after a shootout started, anticipation, aim, maneuvering, etc would be a whole new ballgame from the commanders perspective.
04-17-2012, 06:51 PM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Hi gentlemen,
This clip is so real fun.."<span title="M1A2 US Army's Tank Simulator for crew training 米陸軍戦車兵訓練用シミュレーター" class="long-title" id="eow-title" dir="ltr">M1A2 US Army's Tank Simulator for crew training"...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ_eKwaGJLE[/youtube]</span>
This clip is so real fun.."<span title="M1A2 US Army's Tank Simulator for crew training 米陸軍戦車兵訓練用シミュレーター" class="long-title" id="eow-title" dir="ltr">M1A2 US Army's Tank Simulator for crew training"...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ_eKwaGJLE[/youtube]</span>
04-18-2012, 06:13 AM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Hi gentlemen,
The FPV Tank Battle clip belongs to "panzerwarriors channel" there are huge of clips there please give them a visit.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfz9Hr6RIWk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ7-MKu_qjs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPi3xIOOnFE[/youtube]
The FPV Tank Battle clip belongs to "panzerwarriors channel" there are huge of clips there please give them a visit.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfz9Hr6RIWk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ7-MKu_qjs[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPi3xIOOnFE[/youtube]
04-18-2012, 06:37 PM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
Hi gentlemen,
About the robot....I guess it's a commercially produced one(not so sure coz Icould not understand japanese language..LOL), henceto get a proper answering I have just asked mr. Mori (panzerwarriors) joining this forum and answer too.
note: It's my bad...the robot is a handmade one.
Siam (Samattapol Uttamayotin)
About the robot....I guess it's a commercially produced one(not so sure coz Icould not understand japanese language..LOL), henceto get a proper answering I have just asked mr. Mori (panzerwarriors) joining this forum and answer too.
note: It's my bad...the robot is a handmade one.
Siam (Samattapol Uttamayotin)
04-19-2012, 04:08 AM
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RE: Real FPV - Drive by Video
ORIGINAL: SDCPs
Is that a comercially produced robot in 2nd video?
Is that a comercially produced robot in 2nd video?
It is a hand made robot cutomized for airsoft battle. They play FPV airsoft robot war game regularly in Tokyo. We've been thinking to play RC Tank vs. Robot FPV battle but unfortunately there are many issues need to be solved.
http://bipedrobotnewsjapan.blogspot....okei-juku.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APjIa...ature=youtu.be
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