My New Heng Long KV-1
04-15-2013, 04:24 PM
#176
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
<span style="font-size: medium;">Did a little work on the KV-1 the other day & today.
Painted the ,lower hull, wheels, & suspension with the base coat. Finished up with the welds on the upper hull, now the upper needs some base coat Russian green ... slowly but surely!
Here you can see the prefab PL300 welds being CA gel glued in place, then trimmed.
I'll fill in the small gap with a short piece of weld later ...
Now adding the weld around the apliqué armor.
</span>
<span style="font-size: medium;">I think once it's all painted it should look fine. Good timing that I might have the paint done some time thyis week, as I just received all my TK22 boards back from Clark today, nice!
</span>
<span style="font-size: medium;">~ Craig ~</span>
Painted the ,lower hull, wheels, & suspension with the base coat. Finished up with the welds on the upper hull, now the upper needs some base coat Russian green ... slowly but surely!
Here you can see the prefab PL300 welds being CA gel glued in place, then trimmed.
I'll fill in the small gap with a short piece of weld later ...
Now adding the weld around the apliqué armor.
</span><span style="font-size: medium;">I think once it's all painted it should look fine. Good timing that I might have the paint done some time thyis week, as I just received all my TK22 boards back from Clark today, nice!
</span><span style="font-size: medium;">~ Craig ~</span>
04-16-2013, 12:12 AM
#177
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
you know, that really turned out great. learn something new all the time :-)
I tore down my kv2 some day's ago and will start the rebuild, adding weld lines and some details here and there. Mayeb I should try you're weld line aproach. Looks faster than milliputt.
What brand of color are you using ?
I'm playing with both Humbrol to have a strong base for a winterwash , but I also just bought the life color russ cm sett to see how that is to work with. Should be here any day now
I tore down my kv2 some day's ago and will start the rebuild, adding weld lines and some details here and there. Mayeb I should try you're weld line aproach. Looks faster than milliputt.
What brand of color are you using ?
I'm playing with both Humbrol to have a strong base for a winterwash , but I also just bought the life color russ cm sett to see how that is to work with. Should be here any day now
04-16-2013, 08:57 AM
#178
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Thanks sollie.
At least right now anyway, I am using all Vallejo primers & paints, this dark green is 4BO Russian Green Primer ... .
I'm not sure the actual overall time it would take to prefab & then apply one of these PL300 welds is much faster than using milliput, just 2 different methods having different attributes as well as pros & cons. So, even if no one else ever uses PL300 to do welds like this, at least it can be written down it was tried. That's what I love about the forums, there are always people willing to try something a little different even though the wheel might have already been created, in hopes of finding something better, easier, or cheaper ... if new ideas were never tested, where would this hobby be today compared to how it was a year or decade ago, right?
With both weld procedures it's the tedious effort creating the clamshell, half-moon, or overlapping coin welds (what ever we want to call them) that takes most of the time & is probably the most difficult part of the weld to perfect. The process used is slightly different between the two, but either way, both processes require an amount of practice, or some trial & error, to build up the acquired skill enough to get good results.
With milliput, you start & then have to finish the entire process of making your weld immediately before it hardens. I know it will be a sloppier procedure since water is required, as well as you may get excess milliput slop which needs to be cleaned off around your welds along with that water. But I think you can blend the edges of the welds better since they are actually being formed right where they will stay. However, if you don't like the way the weld is turning out, then there is even more cleanup which has to be done either immediately or within a short time before it hardens, otherwise cleaning them up is going to be difficult & even more time consuming. I'm pretty sure if you get good at using milliput, you can make better looking welds than using PL300 & my method, so those people that are going to be very critical of their welds, may opt to stick with milliput even if it's a more difficult process, more difficult to perfect, as well as being sloppier to apply.
With the PL300, the only process which has to be done almost immediately after you lay some straight weld beads down on some wax paper, is creating the style clamshell weld bumps you like to see. After that, they need to set up for about an hour or so before they are ready to be pealed off, then you can apply them whenever or wherever you need them. If you don't like the way the weld looks, you simply don't use it so there is absolutely no cleanup or extra wasted time for failures like there is with bad milliput welds. It's extremely quick & clean when applying them too, so that part does go fast & absolutely no cleanup needed either. The welds in my picture were all applied within about a 15 minute time frame, taking my time & not rushing at all, so applying them does go extremely quick once you have them made & ready to apply. It's also a LOT cheaper than milliput!
I guess I'll have to do some milliput welds some time so I can compare both processes against each other better. It will be interesting to see how this all looks when I get the green base coat down on the upper hull, & the tank is all back together to see the whole effect. Like I said in an earlier post though, I'm not sure how resilient these welds will be, they may start pealing off within hours or days after I start running the tank, so I would caution anyone trying them just yet.
~ Craig ~
At least right now anyway, I am using all Vallejo primers & paints, this dark green is 4BO Russian Green Primer ... .
I'm not sure the actual overall time it would take to prefab & then apply one of these PL300 welds is much faster than using milliput, just 2 different methods having different attributes as well as pros & cons. So, even if no one else ever uses PL300 to do welds like this, at least it can be written down it was tried. That's what I love about the forums, there are always people willing to try something a little different even though the wheel might have already been created, in hopes of finding something better, easier, or cheaper ... if new ideas were never tested, where would this hobby be today compared to how it was a year or decade ago, right?
With both weld procedures it's the tedious effort creating the clamshell, half-moon, or overlapping coin welds (what ever we want to call them) that takes most of the time & is probably the most difficult part of the weld to perfect. The process used is slightly different between the two, but either way, both processes require an amount of practice, or some trial & error, to build up the acquired skill enough to get good results.
With milliput, you start & then have to finish the entire process of making your weld immediately before it hardens. I know it will be a sloppier procedure since water is required, as well as you may get excess milliput slop which needs to be cleaned off around your welds along with that water. But I think you can blend the edges of the welds better since they are actually being formed right where they will stay. However, if you don't like the way the weld is turning out, then there is even more cleanup which has to be done either immediately or within a short time before it hardens, otherwise cleaning them up is going to be difficult & even more time consuming. I'm pretty sure if you get good at using milliput, you can make better looking welds than using PL300 & my method, so those people that are going to be very critical of their welds, may opt to stick with milliput even if it's a more difficult process, more difficult to perfect, as well as being sloppier to apply.
With the PL300, the only process which has to be done almost immediately after you lay some straight weld beads down on some wax paper, is creating the style clamshell weld bumps you like to see. After that, they need to set up for about an hour or so before they are ready to be pealed off, then you can apply them whenever or wherever you need them. If you don't like the way the weld looks, you simply don't use it so there is absolutely no cleanup or extra wasted time for failures like there is with bad milliput welds. It's extremely quick & clean when applying them too, so that part does go fast & absolutely no cleanup needed either. The welds in my picture were all applied within about a 15 minute time frame, taking my time & not rushing at all, so applying them does go extremely quick once you have them made & ready to apply. It's also a LOT cheaper than milliput!
I guess I'll have to do some milliput welds some time so I can compare both processes against each other better. It will be interesting to see how this all looks when I get the green base coat down on the upper hull, & the tank is all back together to see the whole effect. Like I said in an earlier post though, I'm not sure how resilient these welds will be, they may start pealing off within hours or days after I start running the tank, so I would caution anyone trying them just yet.
~ Craig ~
04-16-2013, 01:19 PM
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
<span style="font-size: medium;">Painted the base coat on the </span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: medium;">upper hull & its various parts </span>today.
</span>
<span style="font-size: medium;">~ Craig ~</span>
</span>
<span style="font-size: medium;">~ Craig ~</span>
04-16-2013, 03:19 PM
#180
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Her are some more images of the tank just quickly thrown back together ... mostly anyway ...
ooppss, still have some tape over the headlight lens, lol
~ Craig ~
ooppss, still have some tape over the headlight lens, lol
~ Craig ~
04-16-2013, 10:43 PM
#181
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
04-16-2013, 11:58 PM
#182
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
ORIGINAL: sollie
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
04-17-2013, 12:22 AM
#183
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
ORIGINAL: sollie
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
~ Craig ~
04-17-2013, 12:28 AM
#184
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
ORIGINAL: Airbrushler
interesting where do you get these?
ORIGINAL: sollie
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
http://www.snmstuff.co.uk/lifecolor-...4b0-green-set/
http://www.snmstuff.co.uk/vallejo-af...inting-system/
~ Craig ~
04-17-2013, 12:36 AM
#185
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Thats a very nice KV indeed!And well done on the welds which seems like a handy way of doing them.
Ihave a question you may be able to help with given the subject matter...
On the Heng Long KV, the external or outer "lip"that is fasted along the length of the nudguards appears to be fastened (or modelled as such)with a series of bolts or rivets. This is apparent in some of the shots above.
On some shots of, in this instance, a KV-2 (and yes Iknow that this one was probably cobbled together but the lower hull should be reasonably representyative), the "lip"is shown attached without these nuts/rivets/dimples.
Along the same line....the triangular brackets holding the mudguard to the hull appear slightly different on the HL model as opposed to some shots that exist on the web.
In particular these ones:
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0699
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0741
so for examples, the vertical piece of the bracket attached to the hull does not appear to extend above the top most bit of the traingle.....
saying that, other shots of other tanks do show the rivets/nuts....
were these details "variable"from hull to hull or is there actually a definitive answer as to whether or not the mudguard lip holder featured nuts/rivets or a definitive version of the mudgurad attachment bracket?
p
Ihave a question you may be able to help with given the subject matter...
On the Heng Long KV, the external or outer "lip"that is fasted along the length of the nudguards appears to be fastened (or modelled as such)with a series of bolts or rivets. This is apparent in some of the shots above.
On some shots of, in this instance, a KV-2 (and yes Iknow that this one was probably cobbled together but the lower hull should be reasonably representyative), the "lip"is shown attached without these nuts/rivets/dimples.
Along the same line....the triangular brackets holding the mudguard to the hull appear slightly different on the HL model as opposed to some shots that exist on the web.
In particular these ones:
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0699
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0741
so for examples, the vertical piece of the bracket attached to the hull does not appear to extend above the top most bit of the traingle.....
saying that, other shots of other tanks do show the rivets/nuts....
were these details "variable"from hull to hull or is there actually a definitive answer as to whether or not the mudguard lip holder featured nuts/rivets or a definitive version of the mudgurad attachment bracket?
p
04-17-2013, 02:18 AM
#186
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
ORIGINAL: Airbrushler
interesting where do you get these?
ORIGINAL: sollie
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
I have just strted to use http://www.snmstuff.co.uk/
Outstanding post speed, ordered late friday, and it was at my doorsteps last night. Prices is also good, compared to what I get here in Norway(and I have to do a 2+ houer trip to get vallejos/ak stuff)
04-17-2013, 02:31 AM
#187
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
ORIGINAL: B.A.D.A.S.S.Force
No, not from the LifeColor set, I used the Vallejo Surface Primer, #73609, Verde Ruso 4BO, Russian Green
~ Craig ~
thanks, got it :-)
ORIGINAL: sollie
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
I must say you got a super smooth paint finish.
you say the ' 4BO Russian Green Primer '
is that from the lifecolor set ?
I just received the Vallejo set. Going to order the LC set to to compare. I like the humbrol to, when it's on, the design on the enamel boxes is somewhat messy, and hard to stir.
~ Craig ~
thanks, got it :-)
04-17-2013, 08:34 AM
#189
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
ORIGINAL: lposter
Thats a very nice KV indeed!And well done on the welds which seems like a handy way of doing them.
Ihave a question you may be able to help with given the subject matter...
On the Heng Long KV, the external or outer "lip"that is fasted along the length of the nudguards appears to be fastened (or modelled as such)with a series of bolts or rivets. This is apparent in some of the shots above.
On some shots of, in this instance, a KV-2 (and yes Iknow that this one was probably cobbled together but the lower hull should be reasonably representyative), the "lip"is shown attached without these nuts/rivets/dimples.
Along the same line....the triangular brackets holding the mudguard to the hull appear slightly different on the HL model as opposed to some shots that exist on the web.
In particular these ones:
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0699
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0741
so for examples, the vertical piece of the bracket attached to the hull does not appear to extend above the top most bit of the traingle.....
saying that, other shots of other tanks do show the rivets/nuts....
were these details "variable"from hull to hull or is there actually a definitive answer as to whether or not the mudguard lip holder featured nuts/rivets or a definitive version of the mudgurad attachment bracket?
p
Thats a very nice KV indeed!And well done on the welds which seems like a handy way of doing them.
Ihave a question you may be able to help with given the subject matter...
On the Heng Long KV, the external or outer "lip"that is fasted along the length of the nudguards appears to be fastened (or modelled as such)with a series of bolts or rivets. This is apparent in some of the shots above.
On some shots of, in this instance, a KV-2 (and yes Iknow that this one was probably cobbled together but the lower hull should be reasonably representyative), the "lip"is shown attached without these nuts/rivets/dimples.
Along the same line....the triangular brackets holding the mudguard to the hull appear slightly different on the HL model as opposed to some shots that exist on the web.
In particular these ones:
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0699
http://svsm.org/gallery/kv-2/IMGP0741
so for examples, the vertical piece of the bracket attached to the hull does not appear to extend above the top most bit of the traingle.....
saying that, other shots of other tanks do show the rivets/nuts....
were these details "variable"from hull to hull or is there actually a definitive answer as to whether or not the mudguard lip holder featured nuts/rivets or a definitive version of the mudgurad attachment bracket?
p
Most of what I have learned about them came from looking at thousands of Googled images, many Youtube videos, & scouring tank forums, something you probably have done yourself. I see what you are saying about the L-bracket holding the fenders, which is attached by bolts to the upper hull & fenders on most (all?not sure) KV-1 tanks, & with all the images I have also come across so far, the bracket doesn't extend above the triangular brace at all, while the HL KV-1 has a slight bit extending above it.
For someone who wants a higher level of accuracy, it would be an easy fix of just trimming the top of the L-bracket some to even it off. Though I am doing several aesthetic changes, I haven't really been trying too hard to get my KV-1 up to anything close to ideal historical accuracy, so I never noticed this detail on the brackets. The brackets & triangular braces themselves could probably vary on different KV-1 tanks, I presume from the various production periods. The problem with relying on images is that I can never be sure when looking at newer images if what is on them is truly like it should be for the tank, or at some point after the war the tank was fixed up or restored, but the fixes weren't done up to the same exact factory standard, leaving us with a great looking tank, but not one that is actually historically accurate.
For instance, I have come across images showing the triangular fender braces on some KV-1 tanks which are solid triangles with no hole, & have been welded to the hull & fender rather than use a bolted on L-bracket to secure them. The KV-1 used in Finland had solid braces like this from what I could see, but I haven't come across this type of solid brace really at all for the typical Russian KV-1 tanks. Not sure how many were done this way, & if it was actually some factory production, or just in the field fixes done during the war after production.
I also see what you mean about the rivets in the fender edges on the HL KV-1, & though you seem to indicate you might have seen other KV-1 tanks with those fender rivets(?), that is something else I haven't been able to actually find & show clearly on original WWII photos or videos of the KV-1 to verify they did in fact exist. I see them on plenty of models, but not the real tanks I've seen.
I'm sure there are quite a few anomalies the HL KV-1 has that aren't quite historically accurate, which I know my KV-1 will still have because I'm ignorant of them & didn't ( or simply won't) fix them, but to me I still think these tanks look pretty good ... so please stop pointing any more of the anomalies & inaccuracies out to me, thanks ... LOL
~ Craig ~
04-17-2013, 10:18 PM
#190
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Many thanks for the reply! Ithink we are both in the same boat regarding whats what on KVs......its a bit hard to actually find what the definitive type is with respect to reasonably small details such as those on the fenders.
Other areas that differences between tanksseem to arise with are the storage bins (the handles for one thing), some details on the rear engine decks and some detail on the top of the turrets.
Ihave one photo (no doubt you have it too) which seems to show a rivet holding on the lip of the fender (presumably others are hidden by the vertical piece).....
The fender brackets of course are so variable between models its hard to even hazard a guess as to what is th emost common version...
p
Other areas that differences between tanksseem to arise with are the storage bins (the handles for one thing), some details on the rear engine decks and some detail on the top of the turrets.
Ihave one photo (no doubt you have it too) which seems to show a rivet holding on the lip of the fender (presumably others are hidden by the vertical piece).....
The fender brackets of course are so variable between models its hard to even hazard a guess as to what is th emost common version...
p
04-18-2013, 12:23 AM
#191
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
<a href="http://kv1ehkranami.narod.ru/kv1ehk_foto.html">For actual wartime photos of the KV 1 E , this site is very usful guys - 
http://kv1ehkranami.narod.ru/kv1ehk_foto.html (I use with Chromes automatic translator for the text )
</a>
http://kv1ehkranami.narod.ru/kv1ehk_foto.html (I use with Chromes automatic translator for the text )</a>
04-18-2013, 11:18 AM
#192
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Well, I tried my hand at doing what I really wanted to do as far as paint on my KV-1, go with a 3-color camo design.
Besides looking at the forum, I watched so many videos & read so many articles, even from one of the masters, Mig Jimenez, & of course most say to plan it out carefully ahead of time, but they make it look so darn easy
Can't say I'm thrilled with how it turned out, though the result didn't surprise me since it's my first ever attempt too. I had some images & general scheme, but once I started I became more confused where & how I really wanted to create a pattern
, is there such thing as painter's block for painting tank camo??? But I chugged along anyway, thinking what's the big deal, it's supposed to be random, uneven, & odd ... it's camo, so just finish it & see how it comes out!
I should have really planned this out much better, rather than winging it, hindsight, always 100% LOL ... this is what happens when I get restless & lazy, & I just want to get something done ... then hate myself for doing it.
haha.
I might just go ahead & apply some washes & weathering to it anyway, & see if it "grows" on me ... but I'm not exactly sure at this moment how I want to go forward ... maybe just go ahead & paint the whole thing in the Russian green again, then start over with a better plan for the camo. I didn't want to do this before, because I knew it will take a lot more prep & paint time, but if I go the entire repaint route, I'll probably go with using clay or silly putty (something similar) to block off all the pattern designs of each color for painting, & since I don't want hard lines between colors.
Well, here it is as it sits right now ...
~ Craig ~
Besides looking at the forum, I watched so many videos & read so many articles, even from one of the masters, Mig Jimenez, & of course most say to plan it out carefully ahead of time, but they make it look so darn easy
Can't say I'm thrilled with how it turned out, though the result didn't surprise me since it's my first ever attempt too. I had some images & general scheme, but once I started I became more confused where & how I really wanted to create a pattern
, is there such thing as painter's block for painting tank camo??? But I chugged along anyway, thinking what's the big deal, it's supposed to be random, uneven, & odd ... it's camo, so just finish it & see how it comes out!I should have really planned this out much better, rather than winging it, hindsight, always 100% LOL ... this is what happens when I get restless & lazy, & I just want to get something done ... then hate myself for doing it.
haha.I might just go ahead & apply some washes & weathering to it anyway, & see if it "grows" on me ... but I'm not exactly sure at this moment how I want to go forward ... maybe just go ahead & paint the whole thing in the Russian green again, then start over with a better plan for the camo. I didn't want to do this before, because I knew it will take a lot more prep & paint time, but if I go the entire repaint route, I'll probably go with using clay or silly putty (something similar) to block off all the pattern designs of each color for painting, & since I don't want hard lines between colors.
Well, here it is as it sits right now ...
~ Craig ~
04-18-2013, 01:27 PM
#193
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
you know , that 's not bad at all man, I think a AK wash for dark yellow, some pinwas, ore a dark wash over all will make it look even better. I to plan, look at pic's , movies , other builds, and then when I start I always ends up with something else, freehand , hehe. I say continue and see how it turnes out. So many primers nowdays that will cover it right up if you hate it, and badabim, fresh start again :-)
04-18-2013, 11:34 PM
#194
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Wow... I really, really like that! It's a great mix and the colours look really nice together.
Like sollie said, a dark wash and some minor weathering & a dullcoat. It'll be perfect.
What was your inspiration?
Like sollie said, a dark wash and some minor weathering & a dullcoat. It'll be perfect.
What was your inspiration?
04-19-2013, 02:08 AM
#196
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Camo scheme looks nice! I always find I hate the schemes I do untill I start with filters washes etc, they really tie things together! You can always achive a harder edge to the camo by going round the edges again on a lower pressure but I like the soft edge look!
04-19-2013, 11:41 AM
#197
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Kind of what sollie posted Strato50, but I wasn't really looking to do an exact copy, but something similar. I first saw this style KV-1 camo scheme on the Finnish KV-1 below, & had liked it better than the typical all green on most of them.
I had searched through countless videos & photos, but I never did find pictures or video to show me or help confirm the Russian forces ever used a similar 3-color scheme, as all I ever seemed to come across were winter camo with white-wash or green ones. But I did come across one website which discusses the possibility that in the fall of 1939, the RKKA adopted a system of camouflage colors to be applied over the Protective Green 4BO base coat. They do mention a 3-color camo, though I could not verify the site information for authenticity either. However, since it seems to imply that similar camo was used by Russian forces, I just went with the "What if" mentality, & did it anyway.
The website & article I mention is, "Soviet Colors in the Great patriotic War (here)", which had this to say about Russian camo;
<div style="margin-left: 40px;">"<span style="font-size: small;">Camouflage Colors</span></div><p style="margin-left: 40px;">In the fall of 1939, the RKKA adopted a system of camouflage colors to be applied over the Protective Green 4BO base coat. Up to two additional colors could be used:</p><ul>[*]Dark Brown 6K, sometimes denoted as 6RP, was a dark earth brown similar to FS30117.[*]Yellow Earth 7K was a light sand color close to FS23578.
[/list]<div style="margin-left: 40px;"></div><p style="margin-left: 40px;">Both paints were supplied in form of thick paste that was diluted with gasoline, kerosene or a special drying oil. Differences in the dilution medium and/or the mixing proportions caused significant variations in the final colors.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">One or both camouflage colors in various patterns were used, depending upon the particular region within the Soviet Union. The table on page 436 of KV - Technical History and Variants gives the breakdown of the different camouflage colors, based upon the various Military Districts.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">For winter operations in areas where snow was typical, all vehicles were to be painted in overall white.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">This system of camouflage was in effect when German forces invaded the Soviet Union on June 22nd 1941. However, photographs suggest that few units had actually implemented the schemes, and most vehicles appeared in overall Protective Green 4BO in the summer and fall of 1941. By the early winter, units had begun to apply camouflage to their vehicles but due to the chaotic conditions that prevailed in the latter months of 1941, the officially prescribed schemes were often ignored and numerous improvised schemes appeared.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">The RKKA therefore instituted new regulations in the early winter of 1941/42. The regional schemes were abandoned in favor of terrain-specific guidelines, again using Dark Brown 6K and Yellow Earth 7K over Protective Green 4BO. Dark Brown 6K was to be used to cover 15-30% of a vehicle's surface, in large patches to simulate the effect of tree trunks in wooded terrain. Yellow Earth 6K was to be used to cover 15-30% of the surface in areas of ploughed fields or dry earth.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">For winter camouflage, a special water-based paint designated Flat White B was issued, to be applied over the existing camouflage. The practice of painting the entire vehicle white was discouraged. Instead, green areas were to be covered completely and dark brown or yellow earth areas were to be covered with a criss-cross pattern of white stripes, applied by hand. In practice however, these guidelines were rarely followed exactly, and vehicles appeared with large patches of white applied irregularly over the other colors, and sometimes in overall white.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">Camouflage colors were applied by the individual vehicle crews using brushes, so there was little uniformity between vehicles, even within the same unit. Some crews feathered the edges between the different colors using brushes dampened with gasoline or kerosene, while others left 'hard' edges between the colors.</p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"> Photographs indicate that most vehicles continued to appear in overall Protective Green 4BO through 1942 and 1943, with varying levels of white applied during the winter months. In the spring and summer of 1944 however, camouflage colors became more common, though many vehicles still appeared in overall green until the end of the war."</div><div style="margin-left: 40px;"></div><div>
<span style="font-size: medium;">~ Craig ~</span></div>
I had searched through countless videos & photos, but I never did find pictures or video to show me or help confirm the Russian forces ever used a similar 3-color scheme, as all I ever seemed to come across were winter camo with white-wash or green ones. But I did come across one website which discusses the possibility that in the fall of 1939, the RKKA adopted a system of camouflage colors to be applied over the Protective Green 4BO base coat. They do mention a 3-color camo, though I could not verify the site information for authenticity either. However, since it seems to imply that similar camo was used by Russian forces, I just went with the "What if" mentality, & did it anyway.
The website & article I mention is, "Soviet Colors in the Great patriotic War (here)", which had this to say about Russian camo;
<div style="margin-left: 40px;">"<span style="font-size: small;">Camouflage Colors</span></div><p style="margin-left: 40px;">In the fall of 1939, the RKKA adopted a system of camouflage colors to be applied over the Protective Green 4BO base coat. Up to two additional colors could be used:</p><ul>[*]Dark Brown 6K, sometimes denoted as 6RP, was a dark earth brown similar to FS30117.[*]Yellow Earth 7K was a light sand color close to FS23578.
[/list]<div style="margin-left: 40px;"></div><p style="margin-left: 40px;">Both paints were supplied in form of thick paste that was diluted with gasoline, kerosene or a special drying oil. Differences in the dilution medium and/or the mixing proportions caused significant variations in the final colors.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">One or both camouflage colors in various patterns were used, depending upon the particular region within the Soviet Union. The table on page 436 of KV - Technical History and Variants gives the breakdown of the different camouflage colors, based upon the various Military Districts.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">For winter operations in areas where snow was typical, all vehicles were to be painted in overall white.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">This system of camouflage was in effect when German forces invaded the Soviet Union on June 22nd 1941. However, photographs suggest that few units had actually implemented the schemes, and most vehicles appeared in overall Protective Green 4BO in the summer and fall of 1941. By the early winter, units had begun to apply camouflage to their vehicles but due to the chaotic conditions that prevailed in the latter months of 1941, the officially prescribed schemes were often ignored and numerous improvised schemes appeared.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">The RKKA therefore instituted new regulations in the early winter of 1941/42. The regional schemes were abandoned in favor of terrain-specific guidelines, again using Dark Brown 6K and Yellow Earth 7K over Protective Green 4BO. Dark Brown 6K was to be used to cover 15-30% of a vehicle's surface, in large patches to simulate the effect of tree trunks in wooded terrain. Yellow Earth 6K was to be used to cover 15-30% of the surface in areas of ploughed fields or dry earth.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">For winter camouflage, a special water-based paint designated Flat White B was issued, to be applied over the existing camouflage. The practice of painting the entire vehicle white was discouraged. Instead, green areas were to be covered completely and dark brown or yellow earth areas were to be covered with a criss-cross pattern of white stripes, applied by hand. In practice however, these guidelines were rarely followed exactly, and vehicles appeared with large patches of white applied irregularly over the other colors, and sometimes in overall white.</p><p style="margin-left: 40px;">Camouflage colors were applied by the individual vehicle crews using brushes, so there was little uniformity between vehicles, even within the same unit. Some crews feathered the edges between the different colors using brushes dampened with gasoline or kerosene, while others left 'hard' edges between the colors.</p><div style="margin-left: 40px;"> Photographs indicate that most vehicles continued to appear in overall Protective Green 4BO through 1942 and 1943, with varying levels of white applied during the winter months. In the spring and summer of 1944 however, camouflage colors became more common, though many vehicles still appeared in overall green until the end of the war."</div><div style="margin-left: 40px;"></div><div>
<span style="font-size: medium;">~ Craig ~</span></div>
04-19-2013, 02:43 PM
#198
RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
ORIGINAL: B.A.D.A.S.S.Force
Well, I tried my hand at doing what I really wanted to do as far as paint on my KV-1, go with a 3-color camo design.
Besides looking at the forum, I watched so many videos & read so many articles, even from one of the masters, Mig Jimenez, & of course most say to plan it out carefully ahead of time, but they make it look so darn easy [img][/img]
Can't say I'm thrilled with how it turned out, though the result didn't surprise me since it's my first ever attempt too. I had some images & general scheme, but once I started I became more confused where & how I really wanted to create a pattern [img][/img], is there such thing as painter's block for painting tank camo??? But I chugged along anyway, thinking what's the big deal, it's supposed to be random, uneven, & odd ... it's camo, so just finish it & see how it comes out!
I should have really planned this out much better, rather than winging it, hindsight, always 100% LOL ... this is what happens when I get restless & lazy, & I just want to get something done ... then hate myself for doing it. [img][/img] haha.
I might just go ahead & apply some washes & weathering to it anyway, & see if it ''grows'' on me ... but I'm not exactly sure at this moment how I want to go forward ... maybe just go ahead & paint the whole thing in the Russian green again, then start over with a better plan for the camo. I didn't want to do this before, because I knew it will take a lot more prep & paint time, but if I go the entire repaint route, I'll probably go with using clay or silly putty (something similar) to block off all the pattern designs of each color for painting, & since I don't want hard lines between colors.
Well, here it is as it sits right now ...
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
~ Craig ~
Well, I tried my hand at doing what I really wanted to do as far as paint on my KV-1, go with a 3-color camo design.
Besides looking at the forum, I watched so many videos & read so many articles, even from one of the masters, Mig Jimenez, & of course most say to plan it out carefully ahead of time, but they make it look so darn easy [img][/img]
Can't say I'm thrilled with how it turned out, though the result didn't surprise me since it's my first ever attempt too. I had some images & general scheme, but once I started I became more confused where & how I really wanted to create a pattern [img][/img], is there such thing as painter's block for painting tank camo??? But I chugged along anyway, thinking what's the big deal, it's supposed to be random, uneven, & odd ... it's camo, so just finish it & see how it comes out!
I should have really planned this out much better, rather than winging it, hindsight, always 100% LOL ... this is what happens when I get restless & lazy, & I just want to get something done ... then hate myself for doing it. [img][/img] haha.
I might just go ahead & apply some washes & weathering to it anyway, & see if it ''grows'' on me ... but I'm not exactly sure at this moment how I want to go forward ... maybe just go ahead & paint the whole thing in the Russian green again, then start over with a better plan for the camo. I didn't want to do this before, because I knew it will take a lot more prep & paint time, but if I go the entire repaint route, I'll probably go with using clay or silly putty (something similar) to block off all the pattern designs of each color for painting, & since I don't want hard lines between colors.
Well, here it is as it sits right now ...
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
~ Craig ~
I like that a lot once weathering is done it will look really cool
04-19-2013, 05:40 PM
#199
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Thanks for the encouragement guys, I guess I'll work on applying washes, filters, weathering, & some battle damage, then see how it looks.
I think I already did something that is going to hinder any washes & covering filters I was going to apply, or make them more difficult to apply well, at least with the paint I am using. I thought it was a good idea to put a coat of matte clear over everything to seal the current paint, before doing any washes, filters, or weathering. So I used some Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch 2X Flat Matte Clear, because that's all I have in the way of a clear paint right now to seal it.
I am using thinned acrylic water based paints for the filters & washes (again, because they are the only paints I own), but when applying them to this clear, all they do is bead up tightly like water on a freshly waxed surface, rather than flow out over the tank's surface at all. For pin washes around the bolts & in all the grooves it didn't matter so much, but for applying an overall wash or filter it was a mess. I guess that's typical since the paint mixture is mostly water.
Anyone know if adding some dish washing liquid to the water thinned acrylic paint help it to flow better & bead up less tightly on that Rust-Oleum clear I used?
I have only tried doing one other thing to use my acrylic paints as a filter or wash for now, instead of water, I thinned the paint slightly with 91% rubbing alcohol instead, & could get it to cover better with less beading than the paint & water alone. So, it kind of worked, but just not the easy way I figure a wash should go on the tank, lol. Not sure this was a good way to try or if it will create a negative impact going forward with any more washes or weathering I might attempt.
Would it have been better to use something like Future floor polish for the clear coat to seal the base camo colors rather than the Rust-Oleum?
Would the Future clear polish surface allow the acrylic washes to flow better over it, or would I still need to use a different medium than just water when thinning the acrylic paint so it wouldn't bead up on a Future clear coat too?
I was intending to get some Future anyway, since it seems to be a great hard protective clear that is recommended just about everywhere for models, so tomorrow I'm running out to Walmart to get some. Any more clear coats I do will be using the Future polish. I will be looking for a flattening agent to add to the Future as well, so final coats over the tank when everything is completed has a flat finish without any gloss shine.
I tried two different color washes with the alcohol / paint wash mixture, a dark brown & a black, but just on the turret. The brown shows well on the sand yellow camo color, but wasn't very noticeable on the dark brown or green. The black wash could be seen easier on the darker colors.
So below is the current state of the turret after applying the washes. Did I go a little too overboard with these washes, maybe they don't look right, or do you think if I do the rest of the tank like this it's a good start???
Any comments appreciated ... as I'd like to get this stage done on the whole tank by this weekend
~ Craig ~
~ Craig ~
I think I already did something that is going to hinder any washes & covering filters I was going to apply, or make them more difficult to apply well, at least with the paint I am using. I thought it was a good idea to put a coat of matte clear over everything to seal the current paint, before doing any washes, filters, or weathering. So I used some Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch 2X Flat Matte Clear, because that's all I have in the way of a clear paint right now to seal it.
I am using thinned acrylic water based paints for the filters & washes (again, because they are the only paints I own), but when applying them to this clear, all they do is bead up tightly like water on a freshly waxed surface, rather than flow out over the tank's surface at all. For pin washes around the bolts & in all the grooves it didn't matter so much, but for applying an overall wash or filter it was a mess. I guess that's typical since the paint mixture is mostly water.
Anyone know if adding some dish washing liquid to the water thinned acrylic paint help it to flow better & bead up less tightly on that Rust-Oleum clear I used?
I have only tried doing one other thing to use my acrylic paints as a filter or wash for now, instead of water, I thinned the paint slightly with 91% rubbing alcohol instead, & could get it to cover better with less beading than the paint & water alone. So, it kind of worked, but just not the easy way I figure a wash should go on the tank, lol. Not sure this was a good way to try or if it will create a negative impact going forward with any more washes or weathering I might attempt.
Would it have been better to use something like Future floor polish for the clear coat to seal the base camo colors rather than the Rust-Oleum?
Would the Future clear polish surface allow the acrylic washes to flow better over it, or would I still need to use a different medium than just water when thinning the acrylic paint so it wouldn't bead up on a Future clear coat too?
I was intending to get some Future anyway, since it seems to be a great hard protective clear that is recommended just about everywhere for models, so tomorrow I'm running out to Walmart to get some. Any more clear coats I do will be using the Future polish. I will be looking for a flattening agent to add to the Future as well, so final coats over the tank when everything is completed has a flat finish without any gloss shine.
I tried two different color washes with the alcohol / paint wash mixture, a dark brown & a black, but just on the turret. The brown shows well on the sand yellow camo color, but wasn't very noticeable on the dark brown or green. The black wash could be seen easier on the darker colors.
So below is the current state of the turret after applying the washes. Did I go a little too overboard with these washes, maybe they don't look right, or do you think if I do the rest of the tank like this it's a good start???
Any comments appreciated ... as I'd like to get this stage done on the whole tank by this weekend
~ Craig ~
~ Craig ~
04-19-2013, 06:38 PM
#200
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RE: My New Heng Long KV-1
Again,I like it. I just posted last night in the weathering thread my results from using dish soap and acrylic in a spray bottle, and it turned out nicely.no water beading at all. That was on top of the frosted glass clear coat I use, which is similar.
On future builds I will start with a black wash but my Sherman didn't really need it on top of the khaki Camo base coat.
On future builds I will start with a black wash but my Sherman didn't really need it on top of the khaki Camo base coat.
