Mcgregorphoto

Hi Guys,
I have an unusual tank question. I am looking for one that I can modify to mount a camera on tripod on top of to film in buildings. I would never need it to go faster than walking speed and it would always been on flat ground. I am thinking tank over rock crawler because of payload and stability as the camera will be a couple feet up on a tripod. I am thinking that a 1/16 model would be a good starting point. I have a couple of questions;
1 Will most tanks be able to operate normally with a 4 pound payload?
2 Is it reasonable to expect to operate them accurately at slow consistent speeds? Will the quality of the kit impact this?
3 Suggestions for a model?
4 Is it possible to purchase partial kits? I don't need any of the turret and would love not to pay for all the mechanics if possible.
5 Does anyone know a custom tank builder?
Thanks,
Mike

ausf

The Tiger I has a pretty wide base, I use it as a platform for a GoPro, set up on turret ring with a gimbal, so there is rotate, pan and tilt, all servo controlled.

That said, you won't have much room for a tripod, let alone just a pan head and things get unstable fast. Even the weight of a SLR like a Rebel gets ungainly.

If you're depending on this for something more than giggles, I wouldn't consider anything short of a Hobby grade like Tamiya, so even without radio you'd be looking at around $600 for something that's not really suited for your needs. If you're just talking inspection stuff with a keyfob or GoPro, sure, but otherwise you'd be better off with a robot style track platform.

Even with a good suspension and vibration dampening on my gimbal setup, it's a shaky result.

I setup O scale rail tracks with a radio control camera platform as simple dolly system when I need smooth shots.

philipat

1) Easily, though some might require a little reinforcing. One of mine is closer to 10 lbs, though most of that weight is in the lower hull and running gear.
2) yes...with the right electronics and gearing, you'll get gear noise in your video, though
3) assuming the buildings are in operating condition (not full of rubble) any will work, but I would recommend something wide with wide tracks - KV-1, Pershing, Bulldog, M1A2, Leopard II, etc - as a solid base
4) Yes...either eBay as cast offs, or you buy the parts individually as if you were buying spare parts
5) several on here have done custom work, mostly for modelling...I'll let them jump in if they're interested

Crius

I don't think you'll need to spend the money for tamiya kit, the Imex/torro king tiger is also a very stable platform and much less money, but the stock electronics probably won't give you the smooth, slow speed you're looking for. I'm not even sure about a Clark TK22 as they can be a little jerky at slow speeds. An IBU2 should work. I think Jeff's right that your biggest problem is gonna be stabiliy once you raise the camera up so high.

Another question is - where are you? That can make a big difference in what guys will recommend, given factors like international shipping rates.

Imex-Erik

Ok I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it is an educational/school project? I get these questions a few times a week actually
1- 4lbs isn't too bad, shouldnt be an issue with most tanks. Stability will be an issue if you have that 4lbs on top.
2- Yes/No. Stock electronics will be ok, but if you need very precise motor step resolution I would suggest getting some separate ESCs. Since you arent interested in the tank functions this might save you money in the long run as you dont have to worry about replacing tank specific functions (turret elevation, firing, lights, sound, etc).
3- I would most likely recommend a Tiger 1, King Tiger, or KV1/KV2 tank at this time. The Tiger 1 is probably the best all around choice as it is a metal lower chassis, has options for plastic or metal running gear, and a nice torsion bar suspension. Did I mention I have a few laying around that would make good candidates?
4- Yes/No. Your best bet is to contact someone like Taigen (Note: I do represent Taigen) or a TRUSTED seller here on RCU that might have a few parts you need. eBay is ok, but RCU is better. You can try some other dealers too, but they might not be able to sell a half tank or just what you need.
5- This forum is full of GREAT builders. You have come to the right place! I suggest if you can to explain a bit more in detail what you plan and what you have already available (such at electronics, camera gear, etc) so that we can help plan or help direct you to the best option.

Now if I may guess, will this be a rescue bot? What type of camera do you have to put on it? 4lbs is a LOT for a camera, especially when you cant transmit HD via FPV cheaply anyways. Have you though about something like a servo operated arm that would extend when needed and retract when not? This way you could not only save some weight you could help with stability too. If this is a school project please let me know, I like nothing more than to help with these types of things!

Mcgregorphoto

Thanks guys. I am in the US. After looking into robot track platforms I am thinking that they might be a better option than a tank. I appreciate the suggestion AUSF. If I get a tank or a robot I think I am going to mount a Y shaped bracket on top to accommodate a tripod for stability. The rig I am using is around 2 lbs and I do need professional results. I understand it is going to get expensive to get something big enough... If anyone has experience with tracked robots I would love to hear about it but I assume this is the wrong forum for those questions.

Mcgregorphoto

You guys are great. I am actually putting up a camera rig and need it to be at head height for prospective. I would drive it around events and process them later so live streaming is not an issue. The rig is around a pound and a half but the lightest carbon tripod I can find is around 2.5 pounds which brings the total to 4lbs. I guess the bracket will add some weight too. Do you think a tank would be an option or should I just look into something built for purposes like this? (I did not know they existed when I started this thread.)

ausf

Anything at 5-6 feet off the ground is going to need a good amount of weight at the base for stability. As is is, if I put a SLR on a RC dolly, I have it counterweighted with about 2 lbs of batteries and thats inches above seamless steel tracks.

You're going to need a wide base, much wider than anything in the 1/16 tank realm.

For stabilty, especially at height, low weight is your friend, that's why most tripods have a hook of some sort below the head assembly. A photographer will hang sandbags from the hook to lock everything down. Pro dollies are usually stacked heavy with weight for stability.

Personally, I'd look for something approaching a 2 foot square base at the minimum, preferably wider, think lawn mower size.

Mcgregorphoto

I appreciate your insights AUSF.

Imex-Erik

That's funny you say that, I was just about to suggest a lawnmower You can also look for an old electric wheelchair too, you can usually find them cheap for some broken ones or with bad batteries. Then you have a nice stable heavy platform to work with and plenty of space to hide things. You might want to check out www.RobotMarketplace.com for some robotics stuff too, they are actually here in Florida and I deal with them on occasion and never had an issue. However, I still think the rider might be better suited than a robot platform as you can hide a lot of stuff in there Check your local Craigslist/newspaper to try and find one. Good luck and keep us posted!

Mcgregorphoto

Would it be difficult to control an electric wheel chair remotely?

Crius

What about a 1/6 scale platform? I know they're more expensive, but you may be able to find just a lower hull (kinda like a rolling chassis) and then take Erik's route of just getting ESCs for each motor. Don't the Stuart 1/6 tanks go fairly reasonable for price?

As for remotely controlling a wheelchair, it shouldn't be hard. Just a pair of ESCs and a very strong steering servo. Run it on 12 volts and it should be fine. The front wheels should adapt to a steering bar fairly easily. If I had the need I imagine I could knock together something pretty stable from the old electric wheelchairs at work. If you think it will help I could get some photos of those. My boss might even sell one cheap if it would work. Let me know if that sounds like it's worth looking into.

EDIT: Ain't I stupid. An electric wheelchair has already taken care of steering because it has a joystick. Doh! I'll have to look closely at the ones at work tomorrow.

Imex-Erik

Nope, just like a tank really. Just much larger motors It might require a stepper motor controller versus a normal ESC but even then they arent too bad if you are needing a heavy hauler. Then just connect the receiver to the ESCs and add power and enjoy
Since the front wheels are usually on casters it would be very similar to driving a tank. Heck, you could probably replace them and add tracks if you want, but the wheels will be much more floor friendly if it is going to be a flat surface. Having that large of a platform means you can haul a lot more batteries as well too. A lawnmower is pretty darn good too, you could replace the front wheels with casters and just direct drive the wheels or similar and have a nice pretty flat base for really cheap as well. 88

Crius

This is one of the chairs we have at work. It looks like you could just remove everything above the lower frame bar (blue bar that says Quickie) and then you could put whatever platform you wanted on it. With casters in the front it would be just like a tank, just an esc for each motor and you're in there.



Hope that helps.

Mcgregorphoto

Interesting. How much would one cost and what is the ball bark for two ESC's? I am just proving a proof of concept at this point and am a bit worried about transportability with an item that large. Let me know and I will consider it.

ChuckATruck

Two heng long tigers one in front of the other split down the middle and widened with aluminum plate bound to one remote $300. You could make it a couple different ways. One facing forward and one backward and hook the tracks together, or both forward to where you would have 4 sets of tracks.

Mcgregorphoto

Interesting idea ChuckATruck. Have you seen something like this accomplished? The main reason for this is stability and payload I am assuming?

ChuckATruck

if your gonna mount a camera 5foot high i think your gonna need something wider and longer for stability . if you use 2 2.4ghz heng long tigers your around $300 and you might be able to sell the hole upper hulls. Actually you should be able to use the turret ring and the elevation for the barrel to pan and tilt the camerra. You can bind both mfu's to th same radio so all 4 motors will run in unison. I have not seen this done but i cant see how it would be to difficult. It may need upgraded over time with better gearboxes and stuff if you have to add weight to the hull for stability.

It would be a cool project for sure

Imex-Erik

This will depend on the amperage needed, but around $10-15 each for a SIMPLE brushed ESC. Of course you can go higher, but almost any 15A or higher brushed ESC will work for the 1/16th scale tanks even pushing 17ish pounds. Of course you will need two to drive, but driving them is simple and cheap. Then you can use almost any transmitter to drive them that has a standard hobby grade receiver. The type of transmitter and mixing done on it will determine how you drive it.

*I apologize for the late response, the WRAM Show is coming and we are super busy