flymeaway

My Feedback: (6)

Hello. I'm new to this forum, and fairly new to the current age of modeling. I was into this hobby about 22 years ago and have built many planes since. Built more than I flew. Crashed more than I care to be honest about.

I have a wing (54 incher) from a plane I built 22 years ago. This wing has been on two fuselages, has many different colors of Monokote patching, has seen many crashes, but is still structurally perfect. I am just getting back into RC after all these years and have flown the Firebird II ST about 20 times very successfully. I'm getting bored with just two channels so I'm thinking about my next electric. (Yes, electric - have a great place to fly - about 50 acres - as long as the noise is LOW). I'm thinking RTF out of the box/into the air, or fake like I have an aerodynamics degree and build a plane around the wing I just described, or take up knitting.

Is it that hard to make a wing fly? If I were to build up a similar size fuselage and tail section to the original wing that still survives, just cutting out weight, will it work? I guess what I'm looking for is it worth it to scratch build your own plane from a design that does not exist? Thanks for any help.

Mike James

I think most of us here have done just what you're describing. It's a great way to get started in scratch building.

The only issue that would concern me is the wing. Wood dries out, as does glue, and depending on the glue used, joints can become brittle and/or weak, even though there may not be a visual sign. If you're sure the wing is good for flight, I'd go ahead and give it a try, using info from similar designs to figure out fuselage and tail sizes, and the CG.

Have fun, and let us know how it turns out.

Tall Paul

If you can recall the dimensions of the previous planes.. or even get within the ballpark on nose length, tail length, tail area.. plus/minus 50% anything with the c.g. in the right place, no surface warps, and reasonable surface deflections can fly.
It's not nearly as arcane a subject as it appears.

dicknadine

give it a go!! would suggest NOT using the old wing-- build a NEW one, you have all the patterns. then design and build the rest of it from memory-- called scratch building. we-- the guys here on RCU will be glad to help. dick

aimmaintenance

As stated already, building a fuse for an existing wing is a good way to get going in scratch building. That's what I did and it worked out great. Just measure the wing up and post the measurements here and many of these guys can help ya with the proportions of the fuse and tail feathers.
Measure the span/ cord/ dihedral/ etc.
After building mine I learned I needed to change the fin/rudder size and WOW it flew better.
It's a SIG Kavalier wing on a scratch built fuse.
1st pic is before tail mods.

flymeaway

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I appreciate the help.

I found the original plans. The plans and kit were revised in 1967 by Dmeco Models. The plane was called a Live Wire Champion, made by deBolt Model Eng Co.

I think I'll build a fuse and tail section and get this thing in the air. I would actually like to power it with an electric motor so I plan on trying to lighten it up every where I can. One place I can think of is making the fuse narrower than the orignial. Seems to me that this shouldn't make a difference.

dicknadine

what for? so you save 1/2 oz, it shud not affect the performance. do not make it tooo narrow at the wing saddle, otherwise the wing will want to wobble.. good luck. dick

BMatthews

Actually I heartily recomend the lightening program. And make it a "take no prisoners" one at that.

Dick, the old Dmeco model he's talking about was a virtual flying lumber yard. It was heavily overbuilt to withstand the rigors of rudder only or two control escapement flying. For what it was intended for it was great but it's way overbuilt for electric flying.

Flymeaway, you'll want to make a lot of the sheeted areas built up so the model comes out more like a big stick and tissue rubber model. Or at least cut down the use of the thicker stock in the fuselage. It's hard to make any other generallized recomendations but you really need to cut down the amount of wood in that design by about 1/2 or even a bit more to convert it to electric

To tell the truth if you're not happy making the decisions on cutting the structure down in a way that will still provide a strong enough model it may be best to order plans for a proper electric model design.

Or go for old timer free flight plans. The old cabin antigue designs make GREAT electric conversions to rudder, elevator and throttle control. Reducing the dihedral and adding ailerons is also an option.

What size motor and battery packs are you using?

dicknadine

If you want a real floater,-- try a 81" Playboy, all day on a charge. either glow or electric, have both and the afternoon goes real slow floating around. yell if you need plans. dick

flymeaway

My Feedback: (6)

You're right - this plane is way overbuilt. Of course, I managed to destroy the fuselage back when I was a kid learning to fly. I've been going back and forth in my mind what to do with this plane - how to lighten it, or modify it. The problem is, if it doesn't fly real good, I'm not experienced enough to fly it out of trouble. I think I'm better off getting a RTF 3-channel something to learn on while I scratch build the others. I have a .25 OS laying around too - that would power that old Champ just fine. I'm leaning electric because I fly in a field that's somewhat close to houses - the nearest house is about 400 yards away, so I'm worried about noise.

As far as what electric set up for the Champ - I was thinking the 600 set up from Great Planes with the receiver and ESC as one unit, powered by a 8-10 cell NimH, or the Li-po's. Not really sure. This electric gig is new to me. I kind of miss the ol fill er' up, twist the prop and fly - not a whole lot to know (well, how to fly would help).

Tall Paul

Those Live Wires are sooooooo easy to fly... when you get into trouble, let go of everything.. the plane will save itself.
First thing to have ready when flying an electric is to be prepared to chop the power when things get "interesting".. it both helps the plane save itself, and if the plane does crash, the damage is minimal to the expensive parts.
Set up the control system, especially the elevator to a minimal amount of travel. Too much is bad when learning, especially on the elevator, which should be considered more a trim control than a primary flight control, until you get some stick time.

BMatthews

So are you going to get some instruction at a club first or do this on your own? If it's on your own I would recomend an electric glider as your first model. And greatly reduced throws as Paul is recomending. Go for about 1/2 of what the instructions suggest and ONLY fly on calm days at first.

In the meantime download and install FMS on your 'puter and get at least an idea of what you're in for....

http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

flymeaway

My Feedback: (6)

I do remember flying the Live Wire when I was a kid - with an instructor to take off and land - the plane really almost did fly itself. I got really good at flying the pattern, but couldn't land or take off. I tried that on my own - that's why I only have the wing left today.

I am currently flying the Firebird II ST from Hobbyzone (2ch). What a great little airplane to learn on - IF the wind is below 5mph. I've got about 20-25 successful flights on this little bird and am kind of getting bored. I can fly it next to me and skim the grass on a touch and go. So, I think (maybe) I'm ready for the next step. That's why I was thinking about this old wing I had - throw something together cheap with all the parts and spare balsa lying around - if it cracks up, I still have the plans to build it again, or buy another.

I will take the advice of the reduced throws. Makes sense. Think I'll have much of a problem transitioning to a plane like this on my own from the FBIIST? I do have the flight training software - I think that helped me greatly. I flew on the puter for about a month before I launched the FBIIST.

flymeaway

My Feedback: (6)

I do remember flying the Live Wire when I was a kid - with an instructor to take off and land - the plane really almost did fly itself. I got really good at flying the pattern, but couldn't land or take off. I tried that on my own - that's why I only have the wing left today.

I am currently flying the Firebird II ST from Hobbyzone (2ch). What a great little airplane to learn on - IF the wind is below 5mph. I've got about 20-25 successful flights on this little bird and am kind of getting bored. I can fly it next to me and skim the grass on a touch and go. So, I think (maybe) I'm ready for the next step. That's why I was thinking about this old wing I had - throw something together cheap with all the parts and spare balsa lying around - if it cracks up, I still have the plans to build it again, or buy another.

I will take the advice of the reduced throws. Makes sense. Think I'll have much of a problem transitioning to a plane like this on my own from the FBIIST? I do have the flight training software - I think that helped me greatly. I flew on the puter for about a month before I launched the FBIIST.

Tall Paul

With the flight experience you already have, you should do just fine.