rcfireman

My Feedback: (1)

Proflooney,
If you can buy all of your items that you need online and that works for you that is great. All I am saying is that there are times when we run out of something, forget something or maybe we break or lose something. It is times like these when it is very nice to know that you can run down to your LHS get what you need and get back to building.

I too keep a number of props and glowplugs on hand, That has never been a problem. And yes I have ordered a number of diffrent items over the internet because they were cheaper, and they were items that I did not need right away. There is nothing wrong with that.

I guess what troubles me about the statements that you make (like the one below) is that if hobby shops had exclusive rights to selling and the manufacture/distributors could not sell retail the hobby shops would charge more than they already do! That is fact! Why do you think that the US Gov't prevents monopolies? Bebecause if one person/store is the only one selling a certain item they know that they can charge an arm and a leg for it.
That is also the reason that the Gov't steps in when there is price fixing going on.

"as for them banding together well if they were banding together to complain abt the undercutting and some of the prices they sure as heck wouldnt be doing it so they could raise their prices."

You and anyone else who thinks that hobby shops would NOT raise their prices are foolish!

Every since this new hobby shop opened up in town I have not had to order anything online. This guy sells everything at the same price as Tower Hobbies. If you can find it lower you get that lower price. Maybe if you had a LHS like this you would see the advantage of building a good relationship with the owner of the store?

I wish you the best with all your RC needs.

CHassan

My Feedback: (13)

I'm in to instant gratification. I'll pay the extra 4 or 5 dollars to get it right now. Even if it is something my LHS has to order, I'll still order it from them. I usually get my planes on line, everything else I get from the LHS.
Go check the price of SIG items from the Sig website. It's almost all retail price. They support thier dealers by not undercutting them.

ProfLooney

You are right I just know from 2 LHS I have known that the reason they raise their prices is to make the money they are losing from people buying online direct. they say they have to make their money somewhere so they raise their prices to make it up on the smaller quantities that they sell. Now not all hobby shops are that way there are some good ones but it seems I always end up finding the ones with raised prices to make up for what they lose on online sales so they can keep their doors open thats what I am going by.

Joe

Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

Any hobby shop can compete with Tower Hobbies, if they want to.
Many shops just don't.Some of the better shops have the Tower flier right on the counter to compare prices.
Great Planes is not going to drive hobby shops out of business.
The same goes for items from Horizon.

jship

My Feedback: (4)

buy were you want and fly were you want. I'll support the IHS were I can and Tower the rest of the time.

JIMESTES

My Feedback: (8)

I don't know about you all but I like the hands on At the LHS. It is nice to go in to the store and open the box's and man handle the product.
My LHS is a hundred miles away but I usually go there three or four times a month. If there is something special that I want they order it for me and sell it to me for the same price as what I could order it for less shipping.
Also if there weren't LHS this hobby wouldn't spread nearly as well as it does. For instance if you go walk down a strip mall and in to a LHS walk around in there and listen to the customers that are in the store a lot of them are people that walked in there for the first time (newbies) and are interested in getting started and most people are more comfortable getting answers face to face on equipment to buy. Rather than ordering a set up from a catalog and not having a clue on what to do after the box arrives. It is the guys/gals behind the counter that help them make a purchase then send these newbies to our clubs for help.
It is just a good place to hang out.
It is all about the environment.
Sometimes if you pay a little more but to me it's worth it. LONG LIVE THE LHS
You can buy beer for 62 cents a can and drink it at home.
Or you can pay two bucks and drink it at the bar.
It is all about the environment.

just my two cents (give or take a buck)
later JIM

adrian-RCU

i like the quote earlier, you lose on every sale but make it up with volume. maybe we are stupid or what.

Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

JIMESTES,
You are exactly correct.
My earlier post about a good hobby shop competing with tower hobbies, is from real time experience. It can easily be done. Some other items may be a bit higher but usually not outrageous like some I have seen.

JIMESTES

My Feedback: (8)

I don't know about the rest of you but I knew this hobby wasn't cheap when I started it but I havn't let the price tags chase me away from it either I am in this hobby because I choose to be and if I can't afford something that I really want I can usually haggle with some one that has it and find a suitable used one for a more reasonable price.
Ever notice that a new trainer air plane goes for 350 to 400
but the same one used a little is about 100-200 complete.
later Jim

foxx

My Feedback: (2)

My hobby shop sells everything at Tower, Horizon or anybody's else prices out there. The only thing you need to pay extra is the sales tax , therefore up to $100 there is no reason to buy on line ( standard 6.99 shipping charge) and actually it is cheaper to buy from him. I was talking to the owner today without mentioning anything about our discussion here he told me "It is a very tough business to be in because if you price is too high you loose customers and if too low you can not pay the bills so it is a balancing act" he also mentioned he does not carry any item cost more than $150 since people buy those on line" but he will glady special order it so you don't have to deal with the dim wits in the so called customer support center.
Furtheremore You need to consider all the other stuff he has to go through as a small business. Do not forget the normal business losses duo to theft and employees five finger discount. The good news is my LHS is expanding every year where the rest of them in my area are all gone so it is do able if the owner is not greedy. I am so glad that he is here since I can go look for the stuff I need, ask questions and do my shopping right here and if I buy a wrong item I can exchange or return it without any problem. The point I am making is That if there is a hobby shop like mine in your area support him since it is a great asset for you. I agree with Jim it is not all about the price ,shopping is a social activity.

JIMESTES

My Feedback: (8)

Hey foxx sent you pm

Jemo

My Feedback: (5)

I had two friends, both of whom owned hobby shops.
One of them went out of business within two years. He often said,"I refuse to compete with tower hobbies".


The other friend, loved to compete with tower hobbies. When a customer told him tower's price, he would match it.
He claimed, Great planes does not bash their own merchandise through tower, therefore any hobby shop can buy from them and still compete.

Oh, by the way. The second guy retired from his shop.

pinball-RCU

I think one thing most of us agree with is that if we have a good LHS, we should support it. A LHS is convenient, it adds character and life to the community and it employs our neighbors. So where is everybody when Congress debates requiring mail order companies to collect sales tax? Since most states have sales taxes, local businesses are at a 4 to 6% competitive price disadvantage from the start. Since state sales taxes aren't going away, I think mail order / Internet companies should be required to collect sales tax, and thus give the local business a break!

If this sounds like a troll, it's not. I honestly think folks need to look a few inches beyond their own personal financial gain, and see what various gov't tax policies are doing to their own neighborhoods, and evaluate what is likely to happen, what isn't, and support the best of the evils. If we can't subsidize the local businesses, we should at least not put them at a competitive disadvantage.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I'm gonna throw in on this discussion, and give a plug for my local LHS to boot. I don't own a Hobby Shop, but rather I own and operate a computer shop. A little lesson in retail economics. I don't sell a lot of the common parts in my shop because of the price I have to charge for them. I get them from my vendor and then have to mark them up to make a living, cover overhead, cover the cost of selling to somebody using credit cards (yes, there is a fee to the merchant every time you use your credit card at his/her store), etc...... There is an Office Depot almost across the street from me where the parts can be bought cheaper (sometimes less than my vendor can sell it to me for). Why??? Volume, volume, volume. Plain and simple. They can by a trainload of the parts and get them cheaper. Same goes for the LHS. When they only buy a few parts at a time the cost is higher per part.

Now for my local LHS plug. I shop at Mike's in Oklahoma City. Many of you may know him, Mike McMurtry. Yes, McMurty as in Shawn, as in TOC flyer. I learned when I bought my Dave Patrick Ultimate that Mike will match (and in a lot of cases beat) the price I can get it online for. So that ended that. All purchases will go through Mike from now on. I save money (or spend the same amount), support the local LHS, and help out a really great guy (Mike) all in the same purchase.

Just my 2 cents worth

Crashem

I agree with you on the volume purchasing pricing... But I'm not sure I understand how your LHS is able to stay in business if they match or beat prices found online and the LHS costs are higher then the selling price wouldn't they be posting a earnings loss????


Maybe what is more accurate is that the profit margins on items are shrinking because of the online shopping...

I simply don't feel "sorry" or trust any merchant that is able to match online pricing but initially markups up the price beyond what the market will bear. If they want to stay in business they have to know their market and what the "street" prices are....Customers that do there homework get a better price then those that simply trust the merchant to have a fair pricing policy...

This just seems dishonest if the item is selling for $10 on line don't sell for $15 if you can match it and still turn a profit...

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Sorry if I was a bit fuzzy on what I meant. The LHS only price matches on the "big ticket" item. Part is parts and we pay what we pay for them at the LHS. sorry if I confused you on that one. And like what was said above, it's nice to be able to get the part I need when I need it.

Another thing to think about that I didn't state in my last post. I prefer to buy at the LHS so that I can keep them in business. Why?? Every try to go to an online source and get their advice?? or bounce an idea off of them?? Know what I mean?? There are a lot of times that I'll go in and talk to Mike about this or that, and I value his advice more than a the few extra bucks I spend on parts.

ProfLooney

I would shop at my LHS more but he wont even try to compete with online prices on big name stuff even.but i guess when you the only hobby shop in town that actually caters to rc (we have another but they just carry 2 or 3 trainer kits and a few sticks of balsa) then you have a monopoly and guess you dont have to price match thats why i usually dont buy from him. hell a 2 oz bottle of CA runs 22 bucks I can goto tower and get a 4 oz bottle for around 14 so even my glue i have to buy online.

basically I know there are LHS that a person can support and some areas have more than one. But there are a few of them out there that dont get into the hobby cause they love RC like the rest of us they get into it cause they see a way to exploit our hobby for their own profit. Remember there isnt much overhead when you sell out of your garage or basement.

Joe

jefflisa

Well, I suppose that I have to take both sides. I am in the hobby and love to fly as often as possible. Also, I am in the business of selling. The reason your local Hobby Shops have higher prices is due to the Hobby Industry as a whole. It is a tough sector to compete in. I retail in several sectors and the hobby industry is the one I make the least amount of markup in and the one I love the most! Kind of a catch-22 I suppose.
Let me explain a little. I buy wholesale in aftermarket automotive parts. Take the MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) and I pay 50% at the most. So, I buy $100 worth of merchandise and sell it to you for $80, I make $30, not bad. In the Jewelry industry I pay 25% of retail. That means there is a 400% markup. Nice. In the general Giftware trade shows, most items are 35 to 40% of full retail. You can see where I'm going here. There is an opportunity to make a decent ROI (Return On Investment). I do have to pay the bills and pay to ship this stuff to the store. To qualify as a retailer in these markets I had to give bank references, have a valid resale tax certificate on file in my state, and pay my balance in 30 days.
Now, the hobby sector is geared toward what they call 'Brick and Mortar" stores. They will tell you straight out that they do not want folks to sell out of their basements and on-line. Tower Hobbies is owned by one of the large Distributors that I buy from. If I were them, I would sell on-line too. Nothing like a little more profit now and then! If the full MSRP is $257 on an ARF, I buy it for 27% off.
In order to get this discount, I have to provide proof that I had a hobby shop. I had to:
1) Send in a copy of my store lease
2) Send in three photos of my store showing; my stockroom, my sales floor (With merchandise in place) and my "Brick and Mortar" Store front. My Sign had to be clearly visible and I have to be located in a area that is zoned commercial.
3) Give the names of three other Hobby related business that I currently purchase from.
4) Guarantee that I am open a minimum of 45 hours per week including at least 4 weekdays.
5) Guarantee that I would not sell their products on-line at less than retail. (Like Tower Hobbies does...)
6) Provide my bank references.
7) Purchase at least $2500 worth of merchandise per month to get at this level of discount.
8) Pay in full upon delivery, there are no terms.

As you may have guessed, I make the bulk of my living elsewhere. If I want R/C items for myself, I look here and on ebay before I order from GP. I am a small fish in the big "Hobby Pond". I wouldn't swear to it, but I think that a few of the larger Distributors pee in the pond. It doesn't smell the greatest in the world.

I'm not really complaining though. Those of you that do sell in your basements and garages know how hard it was to get by all the necessary items on the Dealer Applications that these fellas send out. (I have had had a few folks come into my store and ask if they can take a picture of my store! I let 'em, but I know where it's going!)

I sell about 250 planes per year, 400 or so engines. It's not bad, but it's more of the living for a retired person that absolutely loves to fly the planes.

I do love to fly the planes! I find some of my best bargains on Ebay and on here. Some are sold by dealers. I suppose the overhead is lower in the garage!

It is fun, isn't it?!
Enjoy!

Jeff B

By The Way, I just did a spell check on my post. Can you believe it.. ARF is not an accepted word on this forum....Oh My!

foxx

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks Jeff for a good insight about how this business works. GP is trying to become the Bill gates of this industry. ARF are OK except I always really upgrade and modify the hardware and some setups to make them AirWorthy. I finished an EZ Zero recently after a lots work on the wing servos since they were suppose to be installed to the wing with sticky tapes !,and I threw away all the hardware that came with the kit , the retract servo lasted only two fights . Unfortunately for a person with less experience a lot of these flaws are not very obvious . What makes me more mad is the trade magazines who do not want to antagonize their advertisers and always give good reviews to all the products appears in their magazines and never point out what is wrong with them . I subscribed to RCM for many years and never read they ever say a kit or an engine is junk. They never have anything but praise for all product they feature specially GP stuff. By the way I pulled my Subscription from RCM last year when all they wanted to talk about was park fliers.