rctom

Hi All:

Most of you that know me know that I'm a pretty cautious person. I don't bring new products to market, especially products made by someone else, without a lot of testing and observation.

With engines in particular, there are many factors that dictate whether an engine will be a good product. We don't sell most engines, really only the DA line now. In every other case I have found problems that would make most people start muttering to themselves "why did I ever buy that thing?�. Difficulty with installation, poor quality, poor power, too heavy, no exhaust options, dead sticks, hard starting, manufacturing or design defects, all of these potential problems weigh heavy when one is deciding if selling a particular engine is a good idea. After all, my customers trust me to have evaluated and approved a product before I sell it and my image depends on doing a good job.

I’ve tested a dozen different engine from China and Brazil. Until now none of them was something that I though I could sell and be proud of.

I have imported a quantity of the 3mm 53 singles from China. We have two of them flying, one of them is on my mid-KAP and one is on a customer’s 84� Edge V2. I think this one is going to work out to be a product that people will accept and even prefer.

These engines are easy to install, powerful, reliable, smooth, light, and they come with a very nice muffler. They look to be patterned after the 3w line, but there is nothing really equivalent in the 3w product line. It’s a reed valve side carb engine, sort of like a 3w 106 that has been turned on its side and one cylinder removed. Also the exhaust port is different from a 3W, it’s not angled so mounting a muffler is much simpler. So I feel I can safely say it’s not just a clone of a 3w engine, they have made some major improvements in the design.

The engine weighs exactly 8 ounces more than a DA-50. The muffler is very light and as quiet as a wraparound Pitts on a DA-50, if you compare the two that way the weights are almost the same.

Power is excellent. We have measured 6400 rpm on a Mejzlik 23-10 following a long flight, so the engine was good and hot. The other one was measured also about 6400 with a 23-10 bunny prop which loads the engine down more. Operation was very clean, as good as anything else that I have used.

I don’t expect this engine to replace the DA-50. DA has such great support and there is such a wide selection of exhausts, it’s just a great engine. But some guys want something less expensive but don’t want junk, they actually want to fly their planes. The 3mm 53 will fill that void.

I’m selling the first 10 pieces for $350, including the muffler and CDI ignition. After that the price will rise to $439.
They should be available this week. They come with a 90 day warranty (repair or replace my choice) and a 14 day “return for any reason� guarantee. I will supply them with a gasket set also, so that if for some reason you need to disassemble the engine you can put it back together. I am keeping a stock of spare parts including ignitions and carburetors.

If this works out as I hope I will have a service facility set up and the warranty period will be extended as we get more experience with the engines.

If you are interested in participating in this trial call me at 817-430-0107. But not Sunday night.

TF

rctom

This post seems to have met with a big yawn, I'm surprised. Half priced power!

Anyway I've received the engine shipment. You guys are really missing a bet if you don't get one.

TF

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Nothing wrong with the post, or the engine from what I can see. I'm contemplating one of the Caps to try that out on. Better would be 2 more of the 28% Edges so I could do some head to head comparisons between the 3.2 Brison, 3MM, and the Taurus TS52. I have the feeling that the 3MM might well be a winner. You don't have any Edges at the moment. What I don't need is another 50cc engine. I already have three. If that engine has similar porting/timing to those found in the 3W then it will be a powerhouse. I like the muffler design. My only problem is time....and space.

Could be everyone didn't know they were encouraged to respond?

why_fly_high

My Feedback: (19)

Tom,

That seems like a good deal. How I would love to get one of those new Edge's and this motor!

Best of luck,

Dan

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

You could get the engine now, but have to get on the list for the next shipment of Edges. You can't beat the intro price since there's nothing in the 50cc class of engines anywhere near that price.

I'm another that would like to have another of the new Edges. Too good!!

rctom

The new Edges are, unfortunately, a ways out. But the mid-KAP flies a lot like the Edge except the tail is actually more powerful, I don't know why.

I was flying it a few days ago doing a blender. Now normally you have to use high rates to get a plane to flatten out into a flat spin. The Kap flattened out nicely on low rate, when I flipped the switch to high rates the plane went vertical again and then over into a waterfall.

Yet it will land almost on its own.

I know the plane is odd, but it's really different and a whole lot of fun.

I certainly wish I had more Edges, but one can wish in one hand....

TF

rcbirk21

My Feedback: (4)

I am extremely interested in this engine. How would it do on that 50 cc sukhoi? Id love to try out that engine! You cant beat $350

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

It would shred.

sailing1

My Feedback: (134)

Ok, I gotta admit that I don't know a lot about this engine and although I do have one of the new 35% Sukhoi's which is a way cool plane, I can't say for certain what the new 50cc Sukhoi will fly like. One thing I can absolutly say for 100% certain is that I don't have the slightest Idea what "Shred (ing)" means. Is the engine going to implode? Will the plane explode? I think I need to go back to engineering school!

Ken Bryant

My Feedback: (10)

To be honest the warranty is not what I would hope for. I like the 2 year warranty on the DA 50. I have had to use it and it was worth the extra $$$ for sure.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Shoot, the engine is half the price of a DA, before you add for a muffler. If you don't need service why pay extra for it, although that's a subjectthat remains to be seen. Truly, unless an engine was poorly manufactured service is something rarely required unless the owner does something to create a problem. Lean running and over heating are the most common, followed closely by using the engine as a dirt hammer. DA does not provide warranty service for ground impacts either if I have read the pages correctly.

Shread means tear up the sky. It's an old surfin' term. To kick butt, to tear it up. If the 50cc Sukhoi comes in at the weight Tom noted in the thread talking about it, any decent 50 will make it sing. If this new engine is set up similar to the 3W, and I've been informed it is, then it would be an excellent engine for the application.

Mmoose

My Feedback: (1)

Well it sounds like a great deal but you gotta bear in mind that the DL-50 is out there selling for US$370 including shipping ( ignition and muffler included ) and thats not just an introductory offer, thats what the normal retail price is !!

In all honesty if your plan is to push it up to US$ 439 then its not the greatest deal out there besides that at least we have lots of flight and test reports on the DL-50.

Just speaking openly as to what went through my mind when I read your post Tom.

On a side note can you post the complete specs of the engine ?

rctom

I wouldn't attempt to compete with that engine on price, this is a much better engine and is easily worth a lot more than $439.

TF

Mmoose

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the info Tom, any chance for the specs ?

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

If I was to do a comparison, I would be comparing it to a 3W-55 but have better ignition with the 3MM. As for quality, if it's even close to a 3W you should be able to put many hundreds of hours on it and do nothing to it. I know I do. Finding the cheapest engine is easy. Finding quality and power is another. Just looking at the case quality of this 3MM puts it well ahead of most of the other clones I've seen to date, and a few of the higher priced engines available.

Mmoose

My Feedback: (1)

Well gentleman in all honesty I am looking for something with a little more power than the DA for my new EXTREME FLT 88 Yak and would love to see the specs cause I am a very willing contender !!

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

How close are you to Dubai? Just curious.

rctom

Specifications

Bore 44mm
Stroke 35mm
Displacement 53cc
Length 6.25�
Width 7/75� including factory muffler which adds 2�.
Height 5� not including sparkplug and cap whichadd 1�
Power samples turn approx. 6400 rpm with 23-10 prop
Props 22-8/10, 23-8/10
Weight 3 lbs. 10 oz. without ignition.
Crankshaft 3 ball bearings
Rod 2 needle bearings
piston 2 rings
cylinder 6 bypass ports
carburetor Walbro
induction 2 petal reed valve
HP 5.5 (estimated)
ignition auto advance CDI, 4.8 to 6 volt
Prop hub 10mm shaft with 6 bolt hub, 3w pattern
Exhaust "can" type exhaust with baffles standard,
Bisson wraparound Pitts optional (coming soon)

Mmoose

My Feedback: (1)

About 15min. There are 3 places that are basically with 30min drive from each other and thats Dubai, Sharjah and Ajman.


Thanks for the specs !!!

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Two rings? Much better heat transfer than in most high $ singles!

rctom

Yes, most people don't understand that the piston ring is the primary path for transfer of heat from the piston to the cylinder and then on to the cooling fins.

Two rings = twice the heat trasfer area, also better cylinder sealing. The downside of two rings is higher cost and slightly more parasitic drag.

TF

FentonFlyer

My Feedback: (11)

How close is the mounting lug pattern to a DA-50?

sailing1

My Feedback: (134)

You know I would really like to purchase one of these new engines as I can see nothing but positives form the specs, pictures and your reports. The only thing keeping me and I suspect a number of other folks from pulling the trigger on the engine is a problem of Wild Hare's on creation. Your planes in the 50cc class have been so popular and have sold so well that many of us already have one, two or three 50cc airframes in our hangar. In my case I have two DA50 powered planes, a Brison 4.2 and the Sukhoi on a DA100. If our thumbs keep working well we have those airframes for a long time as they just don't wear out very often. If we do thunk one or just get tired of it, we probably look for the new offering from WH and in that case already have an engine on hand. I think if this engine was in the 80-85 cc range and you had a WH offering in the works -- well, I would already have both.

Having said all of that, I am still looking for an excuse to buy one as it is really hard to pass up such a good deal.

RC_DESI

My Feedback: (44)

Tom, Do u know if a DA50 pitts muffler will fit this engine? ie. Is the exhaust mounting holes the same as a DA50?

rctom

I understand that problem. And I expect to keep selling mostly DA engines.

I get calls all the time from people who have some kind of special project where they just want something not too expensive, they expect to fly it a little (like at airshows or for demos) but not enough to justify paying $700 to have it hang in the garage most of the time. I have a plane like that, an old Radiocraft (remember them?) Staudacher. I'd fly it occasionally except that I cannot justify having a $1400 100cc twin mounted on it so I can fly it 2 or 3 times a year.

I wanted to have an engine to meet that need that I could still sleep at night knowing it was a quality product.

I have had many people tell me they don't care if an engine is well engineered, they just want it to be inexpensive (cheap). I don't really want to sell anything like that, sooner or later someone will look at the engine and ask"where did you get that thing". The 26cc gas engine I had was like that, not really suitable for extended use but pretty good for an occasional flyer. I had 5 of those, I only sold 3 because I didn't feel good about putting my name next to that product. We never really had serious problems with them, they just looked kind of cheesy.


I'll let somebody else handle that one and get a reputation for selling that kind of engine. I have a box here filled with crappy engines that won't last morethan a few hours that I won't sell.

I mostly wanted to meet the need of people who want to buy a plane but cannot afford a DA or 3W engine. This engine will get them into giant scale with good performance and reliability. If it doesn't get crashed it willlast a long time, if it does then they saved a few hundred dollars.

Like you say, most guys own several engines, and a lot of them only fly one plane all the time, the other planes only fly occasionally, why spend a fortune on those planes?

One other thought. I wanted an engine that is really easy to set up. I absolutely hate it when an engine maker completely ignores the mounting and linkage details. How many times have you had to re-engineer the throttle linkage, replace the arms on the carb, add a bellcrank or some other stupid thing that takes up hours? DA is the only engine maker who has caught on to the idea that an engine should not need hours of rework before you can use it.

This engine will bolt up, the arms are designed to be hooked to servos, the needles are readily accessible, the pressure pulse signal to the carb is internal, no standoffs to mess with. You don't need to cut a humongous hole in your firewall,and you don't need to lug around an extra pound or two of aluminum that you don't need.

To be honest I would not be ashamed to charge the same as a DA-50, it's that good. But I want to get it esteblished, the only real way to do that is to get some people to try it.

TF